More Consensus That Streaming Is An Inferior Format & Not High End?

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Mike Lavigne

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I stream when I review system videos on WBF. Has anyone tried routing a TV or computer video signal through a streaming device to improve the audio quality of TV shows and these system videos? I ask because my wife and I are having increasing difficulty understanding some of the dialogue on these TV shows. It would be great if it was clearer and Bonzo’s system videos might sound better too.
you can route the digital out on your laptop into your dac, use the volume control on your laptop, then use your 2 channel system instead of TV or laptop speakers. if you are watching a laptop then headphones work better than a full 2 channel system to properly scale what you see to what you hear. a high quality headphone amp will matter.

this bypasses the dac and the amplifier in your laptop. still an MP3 source, but much better.

with Vimeo you can get higher rez (16/44 or better) music.

if Youtube type video's are big for you it might be worth the trouble.
 
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microstrip

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I stream when I review system videos on WBF. Has anyone tried routing a TV or computer video signal through a streaming device to improve the audio quality of TV shows and these system videos? I ask because my wife and I are having increasing difficulty understanding some of the dialogue on these TV shows. It would be great if it was clearer and Bonzo’s system videos might sound better too.

You tube videos and TV shows probably have different formats - I think that your TV shows broadcast in multichannel. If so, you should use a multichannel decoder/receiver with a dolby digital decoder and invest in a quality center channel. At some time I owned an all Martin Logan home theater with the large Logos electrostatic center channel. Voices and details were extremely clear, we could listen at low level and understand the dialogues. Currently using the Proac CC2 center channel, that also has excellent understandability. I was told that some modern TV soundbars with Dolby digital have excellent speech quality, but I have no experience with them.

However it will not help with stereo mp3 YouTube videos.
 
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PYP

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All my streaming is from Qobuz via Roon. One benefit of Qobuz is the availability of a large number of high resolution files. In nearly every case, the higher resolution Qobuz file sounds much more realistic than the same music in rebook version on my server. In a few cases, the master used must be pretty bad (my assumption) since the higher resolution doesn't sound much better than redbook. In general, 24 bit files sound very realistic and are musically engaging.

If you typically find new (to you) music by happenstance, streaming via Roon works very well. And the information about the artist, album and musicians is an another benefit of streaming software. The "if you like this artist, you might like..." feature is also an excellent way to find new music. I have doubled the size of my library in a relatively short time. And every day I find interesting music to explore and enjoy. When we talk about streaming, I think it is important to discuss this aspect too.

I wouldn't expect YouTube to sound very good, but it can still be fun to watch. The added visuals are always interesting. Some soundbars sound quite good in an "easy listening" way.
 

gfroman

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I also do my streaming through Qobuz,
using the After Dark Emperor Double Crown Clock and LPS for my Uptone EtherRegen >>>>> Aurender N30SA >>>>>>>EmmLabs DV2.
Sounds great!

 

treitz3

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I also do my streaming through Qobuz,
using the After Dark Emperor Double Crown Clock and LPS for my Uptone EtherRegen >>>>> Aurender N30SA >>>>>>>EmmLabs DV2.
Sounds great!

I have some of the same gear. You are right!

Question though.....where did you source your ground cables? (if you do not mind me asking?)

Tom
 
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gfroman

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I have a Shunyata Everest power conditioner, that supplies special grounding posts.
Actually got 8ga. copper grounding cables off Ebay.
Thanks!
 

treitz3

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Will they sound better if routed through a “high end” streaming device?
No. You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh*t.

Tom
 

treitz3

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I have a Shunyata Everest power conditioner, that supplies special grounding posts.
Actually got 8ga. copper grounding cables off Ebay.
Thanks!
Thank you sir.

Tom
 

Gregadd

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I use Tidal. ifi audio and Tidal are sympatico. Tidal keeps track pf my listening. Most Listened Too. It also sends me a Daily Discovery. It forces me to broaden my horizon. If I like soemthing I just clock on the heart and it is added to my collection.
 

rando

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I stream when I review system videos on WBF. Has anyone tried routing a TV or computer video signal through a streaming device to improve the audio quality of TV shows and these system videos? I ask because my wife and I are having increasing difficulty understanding some of the dialogue on these TV shows. It would be great if it was clearer and Bonzo’s system videos might sound better.

The most commonly used device for what you've described is probably Nvidia Shield hooked up to your tv. This allows a USB DAC with some futzing around installing apps and reconfiguring settings to output audio without internal processing.

A few more specifics would be helpful so feel free to start a new topic. I think the portion of my reply below should be a clue what the realistic direction to pursue here is for a mix of streaming choices on either tv or a computer.

Will they sound better if routed through a “high end” streaming device?

I have a set of NAD Viso HP40 for general PC audio (system videos etc.) use at home and through UAPP when away. Marty admitted to owning a similar system with $200 DAC for computer use at home. Should you go this route just make sure to get a modern DAC so your OS and any programs recognize it.
 
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Blackmorec

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Over the past 4 years i have built and refined a dedicated system for local and remote streaming. While the journey has been fun, it has involved a great many upgrades of things like power supplies, cables, mains supplies, network components etc. Each time I have made those upgrades my system has needed many weeks to fully run-in. In order to ‘drive’ the running in process I keep internet radio flowing through the network. Very early I discovered Swiss Radio Classics, a 128kbps, MP3 based station. It provides a beautiful selection of well recorded classical music, announcements of the music and occasional station ID….no adverts. The announcements are a collection of recordings made by several different people over a period of 20 years.
In the beginning I used to finish a listening session, switch on SRC then switch the amps to stand by. The next listening session I would hit the standby button and SRC would start to play and I’d again start listening to Qobuz or my library of local files.

Pretty early on in the 4 years I started to notice that with each system improvement I could clearly (very clearly) hear the improvement and the effects of runnning in in the SRC announcers’ voices. The better the system got, the more the human aspects of the voices came across, the mouth sounds, the presence, the intake of breath, the intonations and ‘character’ of the voice, the balance and colouration of the recording, the studio (sound booth) contribution. Running in would add at various times sibilance, treble emphasis and bass emphasis…..anomalies that would suddenly (from one day to the next) disappear to be replaced by additional information and clarity in the same frequency range. Eventually SRC became my ‘tool’ for understanding where I was sonically in the running in process. I made many power supply upgrades and ALL my power supplies bar one are standardised on a single supplier, so I started to notice that running in followed a very similar pattern of development which I’ve now repeated dozens of times.

As things progressed and my system got better and better I started to notice another phenomenon. I would start a listening session by hitting the standby button and an hour or so later would realise that I was still listening to music on SRC. Essentially the initial music would grab my attention with its deep, ethereal beauty and I would be so mentally involved that there was resistance/reluctance to switching it off. It was just too lovely. Too engaging. Now this isn’t to say that with improvements SRC ‘caught up‘ full fat (lossless) streaming. Not at all. But what it does say it that, to a great extent SRC started to remind me, very strongly of sitting in a concert hall. The orchestras sounded similar, the imaging was very similar and the recordings were always premium, such that the music became highly engaging and eminently listenable. The more I listened, the more SRC introduced me to beautiful, highly involving music that I‘d never heard before. With improvements SRC started to deliver true audiophile value, not in outright performance but in content and enjoyment.

Another phenomena. As the system got better still, I found myself not only listening to but thoroughly enjoying genres of music I’d previously not appreciated. Choral recitals, opera, small woodwind pieces. Mmmmmmm. Gorgeous. This stuff had me conducting, then ’chair dancing’ as my entire being got involved and wanted to move to the music. The strength of emotional involvement and the feelings the music generates just keep getting stronger as my system improves.

So after an hour or so of SRC I’ll switch to Qobuz and maybe start a playlist. The difference is huge. The 4 dimensional spaciousness, the immersiveness, the sense of being in a real venue, with real musicians. The power, the scale, the sense that i am present as the music is being created, that there are real instruments making the music, the physicality of the music that I can sense with my entire body, the deep sense of being involved in a performance in a venue that is sonically very unlike my listening room and uniquely different on every recording.

So yes, MP3 and internet radio can improve. Massively! We’re certainly not talking chicken sh*t here. Far from it. We’re talking frozen, prepacked, processed chicken. Not beautiful, highly aromatic roast chicken for sure but a very adequate protein that a good chef can use to create extremely tasty, enjoyable and nutritious meals.

If my past 4 years of hi-fi has taught me one thing its that streaming, both local and remote has more potential to satisfy my audio appetite than any other medium I have worked with and enjoyed over 50 years. And that appetite includes new music, more of the same music and musical performances that make me feel wonderful in all aspects and respects.
 
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matthias

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As things progressed and my system got better and better i started to notice another phenomenon. I would start a listening session by hitting the standby button and an hour or so later would realise that I was still listening to music on SRC. Essentially the initial music would grab my attention with it deep, ethereal beauty and I would be so mentally involved that there was resistance to switching it off. It was just too lovely. Too engaging. Now this isn’t to say that with improvements SRC ‘caught up‘ full fat (lossless) streaming. Not at all. But what it does say it that, to a great extent SRC started to remind me, very strongly of sitting in a concert hall. The orchestras sounded similar, the imaging was very similar and the recordings were always premium, such that the music became highly engaging and eminently listenable. The more I listened, the more SRC introduced me to beautiful, highly involving music that I‘d never heard before. With improvements SRC started to deliver true audiophile value, not in outright performance but in content and enjoyment.
Do you have similar experiences with Spotify (which is also lossy as SRC)?
Thx

Matt
 

Blackmorec

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Do you have similar experiences with Spotify (which is also lossy as SRC)?
Thx

Matt
Hiya Matt,
Given that all I’m doing is removing noise and improving power and timing at the local processing level the improvements will be source agnostic. So no I don‘t have experience with Spotify but logic dictates that Spotify sourced material will react in exactly the same way when you improve how its material is processed.
 
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Blackmorec

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I stream when I review system videos on WBF. Has anyone tried routing a TV or computer video signal through a streaming device to improve the audio quality of TV shows and these system videos? I ask because my wife and I are having increasing difficulty understanding some of the dialogue on these TV shows. It would be great if it was clearer and Bonzo’s system videos might sound better too.
Hi PeterA,
Sorry this answer is so vague but about 9-12 months ago there were a series of posts on Audiophlie Style from someone modding Apple TV modules to great audio and visual benefit. Afraid that’s all I remember. The only reason I mention it is that it would be worth searching for given that its exactly what you need. I seem to remember the same person posting a lot about the sonic quality of different modems so search criteria could include the terms ‘cable modem’ and ‘DOCSIS 3.1‘ and ’Apple TV‘
 
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PeterA

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No. You can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh*t.

Tom

Thank you Tom. I asked simply because some of my not so great rock recordings from the 70s sound much better as I have been improving the sound of my system. I am finding that better gear with improved set up does in fact improve the listening experience for even the worst recordings. I guess it is somehow different for streaming.

EDIT: I just read Blackmorec’s post in which he describes similar improvements with streaming. And he expanded on the chicken analogy.
 
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Gregadd

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No, it is not What is good gets better. What is worst gets exposed.
 
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dminches

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Thank you Tom. I asked simply because some of my not so great rock recordings from the 70s sound much better as I have been improving the sound of my system. I am finding that better gear with improved set up does in fact improve the listening experience for even the worst recordings. I guess it is somehow different for streaming.

Peter, it isn't because of the method (streaming) in which the information is getting to your equipment, it is because the streaming information from sites like youtube are low quality. If it was lossless then your equipment could do more to improve the sound.
 

audiobomber

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I stream when I review system videos on WBF. Has anyone tried routing a TV or computer video signal through a streaming device to improve the audio quality of TV shows and these system videos? I ask because my wife and I are having increasing difficulty understanding some of the dialogue on these TV shows. It would be great if it was clearer and Bonzo’s system videos might sound better too.
I like to watch live music performances on YouTube Music channel. The TV is connected to the network from my EtherREGEN A-side. Sound from the TV goes to an iFi Audio iPurifier2 via Toslink, then to my main audio system's exaSound DAC. The ER and iPurifier have linear power supplies. Both ER and iPurifier provided a large improvement in TV sound quality.

YouTube is not MP3, it is AAC (Advanced Audio Coding), which is a newer codec, and considered superior at the same bit rate as MP3. The regular YouTube channel is 128kbps. The YouTube Music subscription service is 256kbps, which is equivalent to MP3 at 320kbps.

I had lossless Amazon Music Unlimited for a few months, and yes, it sounds better than lossy YTM, but not by the margin some are touting here. The ability to stream a live performance dwarfs the difference in sound quality for me. You don't need the highest fidelity for video, sound quality decreases in importance while viewing the performance. I kept YTM and dropped Amazon. All of my critical listening is via locally stored music, which easily surpasses Amazon Unlimited.

So to answer your question, you can definitely improve TV sound by connecting to an outboard DAC and audio system via Toslink.
 
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Kingrex

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Hi Kingsrex,
There‘s a whole lot of your post that I vibe with. I think your situation is very typical of a section of audiophiles. Excellent vinyl system giving great results, digital system very very adequate but not at the same level. I spent nearly 2 decades in exactly this position. Excellent turntables vs top CD players. And always the CD player fell short. No matter which master, the vinyl always sounded more real. Until recently. Since the implementation of a designed from the ground up local and remote streaming system where I discovered that thanks to the network link and various high performance components I have full control over sound quality based on a clear strategy of how the network sounds its best for the investment made. The goal of the network is to minimize traffic around the hi-fi related part of the network, minimize noise via protection and avoidance, minimize jitter/phase noise, minimize vibration, power supply noise, cable losses, using optimal screening, and an optimal cable loom. Further DCpower supplies and their DC cabling plays a massive role in how systems sound, so fully optimising them has a major influence. Finally servers and their sw plays an important role.
So in summary there doesn’t have to be anything wrong with even very excellent vinyl based systems for streaming to sound better. It just requires a highly optimised streaming set-up
I can accept this. My vinyl/digital have leap frogged each other over the years. I happen to have dropped about $10k into my vinyl in the last 3 months. If I had left the vinyl alone and put that money to digital, I am pretty confident the digital would be the better source on many levels.

I invested in the vinyl instead of digital for personal reasons. And it has rewarded me with positive results. I'm young enough my digital should fail in my lifetime. At that point, finances allowing, I might jump my digital up to or beyond my vinyl. I am pretty sure it will take more rhan $8K. That is part of why I focused on vinyl. I think my digital would have required a new DAC, server as well as power supplies for the infrastructure. Honestly I'm a bit out of the digital loop. In the past people were very concerned about external clock and other external devices. Some were stacking switches on swithes and so on. I have no idea where all that shook out. Or if the server/DAC manufacturer have obsoleted that need. And I'm really not anxious to find out as my digital is very satisfying as is. It goes far beyond just working. It plays at a very high level.

It makes me wonder a little at what I have said in the past. I think I still believe at a entry price point, digital is going to beat vinyl sonically. At some turning point, vinyl will beat digital in a $ to $ investment. It will take more money to keep the digital on top. I don't know how many iteration this jumps through. I feel I have hit one at about $17K where the vinyl beats the digital. But I bet there is a flopping point around $40K where the digital might equal or pass the vinyl again. I don't know. I can't play there.
Rex
 
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