MSB DAC Preamp Volume Levels

goblue

New Member
Jan 19, 2021
4
0
1
44
I am in the process of doing an in home demo of a Select II DAC with the Preamp module. The DAC is great and going amp direct is amazing compared to my current PS Audio DSD DAC and BHK Preamp. I'm very impressed with the MSB hardware.

One thing I found strange is what I believe is the gain on the Preamp. It seems like you really have to turn up the volume dial to get significant volume. For example I would say between 0 - 40 there is not much volume at all. I've been typically using the DAC between 70 - 80 on the volume dial. Is this done by design and are you other MSB owners typically using the volume dial in the 70+ range. I'm also not sure if this DAC has such low noise that I'm just able to turn it up to a louder level. The rest of my system are two BHK 300 mono blocks and Revel Ultima Salon II speakers.

Thanks.
 

bryans

VIP/Donor
Dec 26, 2017
919
874
250
I would think this is because the preamp in the Select is a passive design. I could be wrong :). I would reach out to Vince for his input. I also had a PS Audio DSD (I just sold it) and did a demo of the Premier. One sweet unit!
 
  • Like
Reactions: K3RMIT

goblue

New Member
Jan 19, 2021
4
0
1
44
I would think this is because the preamp in the Select is a passive design. I could be wrong :). I would reach out to Vince for his input. I also had a PS Audio DSD (I just sold it) and did a demo of the Premier. One sweet unit!
Yeah good point. I just figured I'd also reach out to some of the owners. Did you end up getting the Premier or did you go with a different DAC?
 

bryans

VIP/Donor
Dec 26, 2017
919
874
250
I'm still in the DAC search but about to finish it up. I listened to the T+A SD3100HV and MSB Premier. I have a dealer who has a Wadax Arcadia. He suggests I listen to it. At this level I don't think I can go wrong.
 

skids929

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2020
202
98
93
54
I am in the process of doing an in home demo of a Select II DAC with the Preamp module. The DAC is great and going amp direct is amazing compared to my current PS Audio DSD DAC and BHK Preamp. I'm very impressed with the MSB hardware.

One thing I found strange is what I believe is the gain on the Preamp. It seems like you really have to turn up the volume dial to get significant volume. For example I would say between 0 - 40 there is not much volume at all. I've been typically using the DAC between 70 - 80 on the volume dial. Is this done by design and are you other MSB owners typically using the volume dial in the 70+ range. I'm also not sure if this DAC has such low noise that I'm just able to turn it up to a louder level. The rest of my system are two BHK 300 mono blocks and Revel Ultima Salon II speakers.

Thanks.


I went DAC direct for a while, then got a Class A Integrated and ran my DACs through it...Whoa what a difference. MSB is great, and I am sure their volume control is quality, but nothing beats a true analog volume control, not even MSBs volume.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CKKeung and K3RMIT

ationg

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2016
119
30
158
I went direct for a while, then recently going through a standalone preamp . The separate preamp made a clearly positive difference in my set up.
 

Motoman

Member
Jul 24, 2021
38
21
15
66
Miami Beach
I have an MSB Discrete with Premier Power Base. I listen to jazz and classic rock between 75-85, which is fine. However, it definitely must be turned up more for the same db as my old MSB Analog DAC. Don't know why, but I assume that it has something to do with impedance matching.
 

K3RMIT

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2020
390
139
113
I would think this is because the preamp in the Select is a passive design. I could be wrong :). I would reach out to Vince for his input. I also had a PS Audio DSD (I just sold it) and did a demo of the Premier. One sweet unit!
Not so sure when I had mine it was passive up to I to 0db then was active you could here the increase in dynamics. So
much for passive
but I read
the new msb. Sel 2 is full
out at chipsets so I do think the pre amp can be passive all the way. I asked this question but got no answer. I wonder how well it does on long cables runs and varying amp Input imp ?
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,368
4,410
sorry; never saw this question earlier.

with a Select II the unity gain (native dac gain fully open, zero digital gain) is at 98db; that is where you want to use it for 'line level' listening with an external preamp. above that gain you will lose degrees of refinement.

not sure about the Reference dac. likely the same, but could be lower with half the dac chips.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: K3RMIT

K3RMIT

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2020
390
139
113
So how does the msb preamp attenuate ? the line out makes good
sense as you describe it.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,368
4,410
So how does the msb preamp attenuate ? the line out makes good
sense as you describe it.

i can't answer that question. the only thing i can say confidently is that at 98db you are getting an analog output from the dacs without any digital manipulation. how it attenuates or amplifies beyond that point i don't know.

there are many who use the MSB as their preamp, and are very happy. so i'm guessing below 98db it's benign to the signal.

best answer i can give you. ask MSB directly.
 

Easy Gliders

Active Member
Oct 22, 2021
80
81
25
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
I went direct for a while, then recently going through a standalone preamp . The separate preamp made a clearly positive difference in my set up.
@ationg, can you please share more details on your experiences with the MSB preamp module compared to a standalone preamp?
Thanks
 

Motoman

Member
Jul 24, 2021
38
21
15
66
Miami Beach
@Easy Gliders, I have the Discrete DAC with Premier Power Supply, so well below your Reference DAC. I was going direct to my Pass Labs 250.8 (powering Wilson Sabrina X's) and my local dealer urged me to try an ARC pre, and lent me an LS28SE. I found that it was marginally better than using the MSB preamp module on my Discrete, but for $8K or so, not worth it, I thought. Its a big complement to MSB that their preamp module comes close to an $8K tube pre. I then decided to take it up a notch and try an ARC REF 6 and that really did the trick. Everything sounded smoother, better soundstage, against a blacker background, just better to my ears. When I switched the stock power cable for a Shunyata Alpha v2, it made a noticeable difference as well. It is counterintuitive that adding all of those electronics and tubes into the supply chain improves the sound, but there you have it!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Easy Gliders

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2011
3,053
3,172
1,410
Hong Kong
@Easy Gliders, I have the Discrete DAC with Premier Power Supply, so well below your Reference DAC. I was going direct to my Pass Labs 250.8 (powering Wilson Sabrina X's) and my local dealer urged me to try an ARC pre, and lent me an LS28SE. I found that it was marginally better than using the MSB preamp module on my Discrete, but for $8K or so, not worth it, I thought. Its a big complement to MSB that their preamp module comes close to an $8K tube pre. I then decided to take it up a notch and try an ARC REF 6 and that really did the trick. Everything sounded smoother, better soundstage, against a blacker background, just better to my ears. When I switched the stock power cable for a Shunyata Alpha v2, it made a noticeable difference as well. It is counterintuitive that adding all of those electronics and tubes into the supply chain improves the sound, but there you have it!
If feasible, please try a good passive TVC preamp such as Bespoke Audio or MFA Ref/Baby Ref 2 with your Discrete DAC & 250.8.
You may be surprised.
 

alfa100

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2014
262
49
258
South Africa
I went DAC direct for a while, then got a Class A Integrated and ran my DACs through it...Whoa what a difference. MSB is great, and I am sure their volume control is quality, but nothing beats a true analog volume control, not even MSBs volume.
I am in the process of doing an in home demo of a Select II DAC with the Preamp module. The DAC is great and going amp direct is amazing compared to my current PS Audio DSD DAC and BHK Preamp. I'm very impressed with the MSB hardware.

One thing I found strange is what I believe is the gain on the Preamp. It seems like you really have to turn up the volume dial to get significant volume. For example I would say between 0 - 40 there is not much volume at all. I've been typically using the DAC between 70 - 80 on the volume dial. Is this done by design and are you other MSB owners typically using the volume dial in the 70+ range. I'm also not sure if this DAC has such low noise that I'm just able to turn it up to a louder level. The rest of my system are two BHK 300 mono blocks and Revel Ultima Salon II speakers.

Thanks.
I have the MSB Analog DAC with volume control and use direct with Pass Labs mono blocks Just checked and found volume starts at 31 and it’s barely noticeable. I need to turn up to 50 go start hearing music and turn up to 60 to listen at low volume. 70 is just about average loudness in my room. 80 is when I begin to enjoy rock. Occasionally 90 for a few minutes only. So what you are hearing is similar to my experience. May I please take this opportunity to ask whether you added an external preamp to the DAC with built in volume control. I found that I prefer my MSB Analog DAC with volume control direct to power amp. Seeing your post begs me to ask whether you used a seperate preamp to a DAC with volume control OR to the same DAC not fitted with built in volume control. I’ve been thinking maybe the built in volume control affects the sound negatively when seperate preamp is added. Also what volume level did you use on the DAC with volume control played through the external preamp. Is there any danger of using a DAC with volume control through a preamp by possibly overloading the external preamp.
I am in the process of doing an in home demo of a Select II DAC with the Preamp module. The DAC is great and going amp direct is amazing compared to my current PS Audio DSD DAC and BHK Preamp. I'm very impressed with the MSB hardware.

One thing I found strange is what I believe is the gain on the Preamp. It seems like you really have to turn up the volume dial to get significant volume. For example I would say between 0 - 40 there is not much volume at all. I've been typically using the DAC between 70 - 80 on the volume dial. Is this done by design and are you other MSB owners typically using the volume dial in the 70+ range. I'm also not sure if this DAC has such low noise that I'm just able to turn it up to a louder level. The rest of my system are two BHK 300 mono blocks and Revel Ultima Salon II speakers.

Thanks.
 

alfa100

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2014
262
49
258
South Africa
D
@Easy Gliders, I have the Discrete DAC with Premier Power Supply, so well below your Reference DAC. I was going direct to my Pass Labs 250.8 (powering Wilson Sabrina X's) and my local dealer urged me to try an ARC pre, and lent me an LS28SE. I found that it was marginally better than using the MSB preamp module on my Discrete, but for $8K or so, not worth it, I thought. Its a big complement to MSB that their preamp module comes close to an $8K tube pre. I then decided to take it up a notch and try an ARC REF 6 and that really did the trick. Everything sounded smoother, better soundstage, against a blacker background, just better to my ears. When I switched the stock power cable for a Shunyata Alpha v2, it made a noticeable difference as well. It is counterintuitive that adding all of those electronics and tubes into the supply chain improves the sound, but there you have it!
did you remove the volume control module from the Discrete when you added the AR Ref 6?
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing