Munich High End 2019

User211

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Jul 28, 2014
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Panels are so room and amp dependent I really do not understand how people walk into a hifi show room and say this is the best speaker because it costs 200ish after listening to none of their own recordings. Yes it is big and transparent.
But there is no reference system, Ked. All you can say is you like the sound of a particular CD you know on one system rather than another. That doesn't tell you overall whether its a good speaker or not.

The best way is time. Just listen to a lot of different recordings on a system to decide whether you like it. After a while, you can average it out in your mind to decide whether you like it or not.

Sure I would have liked to have remembered to bring my own disks, but I didn't. That said I had four days at the show and consequently I had a lot of time to listen to the Alsyvox. I heard a lot of different stuff on them from varying genres. Just no electronica.

What I have just said is the biggest single problem with shows. Quick listens to a track or two, even if you know it, doesn't give you a decent overall picture of the sound.


Quick side note: I didn't hear anything come out of the Aeries Cerat sub-woofers, though they looked connected at the subwoofer end. Where they ever used? What frequency do they cut in?
 
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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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According to someone here, Symphonia basshorns extend to 32Hz at -3dB.
 

bonzo75

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But there is no reference system, Ked. All you can say is you like the sound of a particular CD you know on one system rather than another. That doesn't tell you overall whether its a good speaker or not.

The best way is time. Just listen to a lot of different recordings on a system to decide whether you like it. After a while, you can average it out in your mind to decide whether you like it or not.

Sure I would have liked to have remembered to bring my own disks, but I didn't. That said I had four days at the show and consequently I had a lot of time to listen to the Alsyvox. I heard a lot of different stuff on them from varying genres. Just no electronica.

What I have just said is the biggest single problem with shows. Quick listens to a track or two, even if you know it, doesn't give you a decent overall picture of the sound.


Quick side note: I didn't hear anything come out of the Aeries Cerat sub-woofers, though they looked connected at the subwoofer end. Where they ever used? What frequency do they cut in?
I didn't over all say if it was a good speaker or not. That is my point. Imo the only judgement possible is that it is worthy of a future proper controlled demo. How people lavish praise (or criticise it) is beyond me
 

User211

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Jul 28, 2014
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I didn't over all say if it was a good speaker or not. That is my point. Imo the only judgement possible is that it is worthy of a future proper controlled demo. How people lavish praise (or criticise it) is beyond me
To know whether its technically really good or not as a planar, I'd have to sit down with a test mic and a copy of HolmImpulse or the like, a tape measure (to work out likely resonance spots), and frequency generator and a pair or ears.

Easy to poo poo that, but believe me I'd find problems very quickly that way.
 

Blue58

Active Member
Jan 20, 2013
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Interesting that you own the tannoys. Outside of big horns, vintage tannoys and devores are my favorites
Hi Ked,
Did you listen to the reference Devores and the PAP/Mayer system? Impressions?
Cheers
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hi Ked,
Did you listen to the reference Devores and the PAP/Mayer system? Impressions?
Cheers
The devore room wasn't doing them justice, too small a room. The PAP Mayer system had a lot of positives in terms of open, transparent planar sound, purity, but thought they needed more drive and oomph, though many of Munich rooms do lose oomph
 
Oct 12, 2011
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Agreed I on horns and Tannoy. Have several ideas on the horns for the future but 2 kids nearing college age have slowed that train. I am in the process of trading the Tannoy for a pair of Pure Audio Project speakers (with horn) that I should be able to experiment with a bit more. And that will fill my room a bit better.

If I can find the time I may also try to redo the paper mache horns from the Silbatone room this year. Spoke with JC a bit about it and it looks doable as a DIY project, albeit a bit on the complicated side!

Beau

Interesting that you own the tannoys. Outside of big horns, vintage tannoys and devores are my favorites
 

Aries Cerat

Industry Expert
May 30, 2015
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Hel
But there is no reference system, Ked. All you can say is you like the sound of a particular CD you know on one system rather than another. That doesn't tell you overall whether its a good speaker or not.

The best way is time. Just listen to a lot of different recordings on a system to decide whether you like it. After a while, you can average it out in your mind to decide whether you like it or not.

Sure I would have liked to have remembered to bring my own disks, but I didn't. That said I had four days at the show and consequently I had a lot of time to listen to the Alsyvox. I heard a lot of different stuff on them from varying genres. Just no electronica.

What I have just said is the biggest single problem with shows. Quick listens to a track or two, even if you know it, doesn't give you a decent overall picture of the sound.


Quick side note: I didn't hear anything come out of the Aeries Cerat sub-woofers, though they looked connected at the subwoofer end. Where they ever used? What frequency do they cut in?
Hello
That was one of my distributors you talked to.
Yes the basshorns were always on during the show.Happy to hear you did not hear them,we got same question from almost everyone on the sweet spot.we had to take them see the back of the basshorns to see the drivers, to convince them.They were time aligned to the main speakers ,crossed at 130Hz.Passively driver by the main amplifiers.so speaker was four way during the show.they were physically time aligned and since the 10grm diaphargm drivers are fast enough they perfectly integrate when sitting on ''the good spots''
Cheers
S
 

COF

Member
Sep 30, 2017
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It's fun to hear about (and see pictures of) the mega-buck systems. But I have a personal interest in the new Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphene speakers - they are on my very short list for my next speaker purchase. So I'm going to bump my request to see if anyone has anything to say about hearing the Joseph Audio room. Thanks. (Just noticed, one poster liked the sound....thanks!)
 
Jul 1, 2015
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I didn't over all say if it was a good speaker or not. That is my point. Imo the only judgement possible is that it is worthy of a future proper controlled demo. How people lavish praise (or criticise it) is beyond me
I tend to agree with your point here, Kedar–very tough to pass judgment under these types of conditions.

That said, I’m hoping you can clarify some of your judgement on the LampizatOr/Audionec/Jadis/Nodal room. The feedback we’ve been getting has been over the top fantastic...

Were you able to hook up with Lukasz while you were there? Hopefully they were able to play some of your recordings?
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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I tend to agree with your point here, Kedar–very tough to pass judgment under these types of conditions.

That said, I’m hoping you can clarify some of your judgement on the LampizatOr/Audionec/Jadis/Nodal room. The feedback we’ve been getting has been over the top fantastic...

Were you able to hook up with Lukasz while you were there? Hopefully they were able to play some of your recordings?
Hi no. I love the Lampi already so I was not there to spend time on Lampi. Lampi always disappoints me at a show probably because I am used to expecting much more of it due to a lot of exposure in various systems
 
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bonzo75

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Hi no. I love the Lampi already so I was not there to spend time on Lampi. Lampi always disappoints me at a show probably because I am used to expecting much more of it due to a lot of exposure in various systems
Also, as you know I am always encouraging people to try out the Lampi. I wish they try it properly and find out how it kills their digital (and often analog) rather than use a show to judge 0.1% of what it is capable of
 
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bonzo75

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Finally it also bores me when owners go to shows and report back how the room with their gear sounds great even when it doesn't, unless they themselves have set it up badly at their own place.
 

User211

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Jul 28, 2014
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Hel


Hello
That was one of my distributors you talked to.
Yes the basshorns were always on during the show.Happy to hear you did not hear them,we got same question from almost everyone on the sweet spot.we had to take them see the back of the basshorns to see the drivers, to convince them.They were time aligned to the main speakers ,crossed at 130Hz.Passively driver by the main amplifiers.so speaker was four way during the show.they were physically time aligned and since the 10grm diaphargm drivers are fast enough they perfectly integrate when sitting on ''the good spots''
Cheers
S
Actually, that I think explains a lot about how they sounded. 130Hz isn't what I'd call a sub (with my speakers it'd be sub 20Hz), but we're in the land of horns here.

I was listening for something much deeper, not thinking... and yes, he did say he was the distributor.
 
Oct 12, 2011
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I did like the sound especially when they were playing tape. If my memory is to be trusted the room sounded better this year. Again it’s not the sound I would prefer but the room was set up so that the speakers did a good job of conveying the music. They also did a better job of disappearing into the the room than any speaker except The Yar system.

Bottom line is if you have liked Jeff’s speakers in the past you won’t be disappointed with these.

Beau

It's fun to hear about (and see pictures of) the mega-buck systems. But I have a personal interest in the new Joseph Audio Perspective 2 Graphene speakers - they are on my very short list for my next speaker purchase. So I'm going to bump my request to see if anyone has anything to say about hearing the Joseph Audio room. Thanks. (Just noticed, one poster liked the sound....thanks!)[/QUOT
 
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Jul 18, 2010
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This was my first Munich show and it was overwhelming to say the least. All the companies for years you could not hear were there in good sounding rooms.
1) Top sounding room to me was Living Voice with the Palladian horn speaker. I went back many time every day of the show for some listening and each time the room was at capacity and once someone got into a seat they never seemed to leave. This is a good sign as many or most rooms have people coming in and out of seats constantly.It is a sound that is just easy on the ears like watching the Hallmark Channel or old Aaron Spelling tv shows. You feel like you have arrived. The bass for me was light as I enjoy organ music. The rest of the sound was not the pinnacle in detail but when you are listening you forget about that very quick as you felt your ears were being massaged by a beautiful woman. A person could live there entire life with these speakers and always have a smile on there face. Kevin and Lynn were top rated hosts and it is clear Kevin loves good music and real heart and sole went into the sound. He is not a tech measurement guy but a sound guy and that is good.
2) FM Acoustics: I had the privilege to have no one in the large listening room but me and WOW the layers. I came one hour before the show opening. The electronics are just as good as you get. So good in fact I have always done tubes but for the first time would have absolutely no problems going to solid state with FM. When you listen to the electronics it clearly has layer on layer of sound and not just flat sound like most other equipment, including tubes. Think of FM Acoustic Electronics like Photoshop with multi layers. VERY IMPRESSED about there electronics and all of the adjustments to the sound you can make so the system fits what YOU want and not just what the designer wants in his room. The boss also is into music in a big way and that is good for the final sound. Other have matched the FM Acoustics with Zellaton speakers and I can clearly agree on that pair.
BIG PLUS FOR FM ACOUSTICS: When you buy any electroic product from FM there power cords are included and perminently attached. This eliminates the whole power cord game. Then you have there own interconnects and thick speaker cables matched to there equipment. All of there cables are very reasonable. Playing with so many cables to match a system is lost time and FM did it all for you. This is a big plus in my mind.
3) Zellaton: Clean, great image, great bottom end, with all of the drivers of the same material, it sounded like a strong electrostatic speaker. Fast. As the Living Voice was less detailed this speaker had EVERY detail. You can easily live a lifetime with these speakers too. There was a good size crown there most of the times. They played Dean Martin and I think they dug up Dean to appear at the Zellaton room. I did not get tired of the sound and it was very balanced with a good bottom end.
 
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asiufy

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Jul 8, 2011
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You should. No, you have to. It's a lot of fun. Make sure you can be there on Thursday, when the crowds are not quite there yet.

One thing I've noticed getting better year after year are the vinyl vendors. Hall 4 had a few great ones, and I came back a few $$$ lighter...
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Thanks for the comments, fellas.

Honestly I'm debating whether to attend Munich next year hence my interest.
Munich is tough. If you want to make a buy or reject decision by coming here next here it is pointless... Except to stick to horns and get the WE sound in a smaller parcel. Given the best of those are European, it is then a matter of when you can check those out privately to match your taste.

Otherwise if you want to have fun and be surprised, it is great. But as you are a potential buyer, just watch yourself for buy / reject judgements on gear you haven't heard outside of the show.

This is not a shortcut to the process you are currently following
 
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