Munich HighEnd 2024

[Ron Resnick]

And that guarantees what exactly Ron ? that he is qualified to assess and evaluate each and every item of electronic equipment , Transducers and Systems that he comes across , entirely correctly and without exception , and thereby held up as the Forum Gold Standard Audiophile ?

It doesn't guarantee anything. Where did I suggest that it guarantees something?

Brad suggested that Marty does not listen to live music as a reference. I merely refuted that suggestion.

 

[Carlos269]

Why do so many judge these systems at Munich on conjecture or suppositions rather than resultant sound? Should systems with these price tags be given the benefit of a doubt? Why? Isn’t Munich a show where vendors come and showcase their systems for the industry? If they do not show up to with their best foot forward then why show up at all? In the old days and in most scenarios, you are only as good as your last showing. I’m befuddled by all the excuses and the crutches used for these exorbitantly priced components and systems. The smaller DIY and local shows exhibitors are judged at face value but most give the Munich exhibitors the benefit of the doubt. Why is that? Why does the resultant sound not stand in their own?

For example, we keep hearing that the Aries Cerat room was terrible but then on Sunday the system sounded heavenly. Did they change rooms on Sunday? The room didn’t change so if the sound changed then it couldn’t have been the room, or did they make optimizations based in the room on Sunday? Why wait five days to make corrections?

I’m just using AC as an example but many other exhibitors also failed to delivered. So why do so many given them a pass on their failure to deliver the performance that they claimed?

If it is always about potential, then there will always be an excuse.

 

[Argonaut]

It doesn't guarantee anything.

Just so , However to be consistent , attending live performance does of course leave a frame of reference imprinted onto the brain.
Whether that guarantee’s that said concert goer can pronounce upon an audi system with an air of complete infallibility is quite another.

 

[Al M.]

Just so , However to be consistent , attending live performance does of course leave a frame of reference imprinted onto the brain.

As I posted this morning:

I agree, theoretically listening to classical and especially live classical should support a poster's credibility, because that should give them a reliable frame of reference. Yet does it always do so in practice? Lately I have developed some doubts about that.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Wadax had some kind of fabric draped against the walls anybody knows the brand name ?
Worked really well.

Top notch digital.
Although i dont think it can beat my telefunken M15 A / eternal arts tape stage with the best tapes

 

[Elliot G.]

 

[Elliot G.]

Wadax had some kind of fabric draped against the walls anybody knows the brand name ?
Worked really well.

Top notch digital.
Although i dont think it can beat my telefunken M15 A / eternal arts tape stage with the best tapes

Its made by a Canadian company called Molo design

 

[andromedaaudio]

And finally like i mentioned already a couple
of times , biggest surprise of the show .
Electronics that can convey the musicians intent.

I talked with luke manley briefly really nice guy , great demo.

 

[morricab]

Why do so many judge these systems at Munich on conjecture or suppositions rather than resultant sound? Should systems with these price tags be given the benefit of a doubt? Why? Isn’t Munich a show where vendors come and showcase their systems for the industry? If they do not show up to with their best foot forward then why show up at all? In the old days and in most scenarios, you are only as good as your last showing. I’m befuddled by all the excuses and the crutches used for these exorbitantly priced components and systems. The smaller DIY and local shows exhibitors are judged at face value but most give the Munich exhibitors the benefit of the doubt. Why is that? Why does the resultant sound not stand in their own?

For example, we keep hearing that the Aries Cerat room was terrible but then on Sunday the system sounded heavenly. Did they change rooms on Sunday? The room didn’t change so if the sound changed then it couldn’t have been the room, or did they make optimizations based in the room on Sunday? Why wait five days to make corrections?

I’m just using AC as an example but many other exhibitors also failed to delivered. So why do so many given them a pass on their failure to deliver the performance that they claimed?

If it is always about potential, then there will always be an excuse.

They made multiple adjustments and electronics upgrades (added another pair of monos for the subs, for example). You don’t have a lot of time to make changes and empty vs. full room matters too. It’s a huge and complex system as well…not some 2-way stand mount.

 

[Golum]

Brad suggested that Marty does not listen to live music as a reference. I merely refuted that suggestion.

Marty is HARD CORE active in listening to the live performances. As far as I know - he's in Carnegie hall day in day out whilst visiting regularly performances across the globe in best venues with best orchestras/conductors.

As someone who's unfortunately consistently missing the MUC show it's interesting to note the differences in the opinions which are more or less repetitive from year to year amongst the members of this community.

But as a fil rouge (of someone purely reading/watching the reports) it seems to me that there was quite a big number of premieres of the new gear, exhibitors investing significant effort in presentation of their gear and also to certain extend shift of focus from some brands massively present in reports in previous years to some "new" brands - CHP comes to my mind. But than again I might be totally wrong...

Anyhow many thanks to all who are contributing with the info from the show...

 

[andromedaaudio]

They made multiple adjustments and electronics upgrades (added another pair of monos for the subs, for example). You don’t have a lot of time to make changes and empty vs. full room matters too. It’s a huge and complex system as well…not some 2-way stand mount.

I think this system has great potential indeed .
If placed in the correct room , and the FR is more balanced out ( adjusted /measured ? .)
It did indeed do things no system at MOC can do , it was the first time i understood wat the designer is trying to achieve.

 

[bonzo75]

As someone who's unfortunately consistently missing the MUC show it's interesting to note the differences in the opinions which are more or less repetitive from year to year amongst the members of this community.

The wisest person on this forum posted the reason for differences in opinions at shows during last year's Munich 2023 discussion. I am quoting from him.

===

"If you look at people’s reaction to rooms in a show, a lot of difference in reactions happens because the demos are often uncontrolled. People stroll in often with no reference music of their own, and are at the mercy of what is being played in the room when they get there. At Munich, I have often seen rooms not sounding good on Friday and sounding better on Sunday. This could be due to varying reasons…fluctuating power, or the fact that people often rush in newly made models before the show and burn them in during the show.

People often have different ways of evaluating a show system compared to in room system. Some just look for potential. Some look for the whole ideal sound.

finally lots of agenda based reviews here. I have often seen people who like or own a component that I like, go to a show and say the room the component was in sounded great - they do this just in support, even if it sounded really bad. I have no idea why. I would rather say, this is bad…I don’t want you to hear the component I recommend like this, this is not representative…yet, people say it is sounding great. They even WhatsApp each other to support that room online. What really matters for them at shows is that the room gets positive feedback online.

from none of the above do I conclude people have different tastes. I find that with similar exposure, lack of agenda, and sensibility, if similar audition music is used, tastes align more often than not."

 

[mxk116]

Here are my thoughts, impressions from Munich 2024. I was there last year, too so this is my second year in a row. Will definitely go next year if life doesn't take a turn. I would highly recommend people interested in HiFi, around Europe to go there even at least once.
My impressions are based on I liked the sound or not. I am aware the rooms (structure, separations, dimensions, especially electricity) are not the best and this is MY taste of sound I hear, which naturally differ. Also I didn't take notes, as I saw many pros doing, neither I am a pro, just a guy loves listening to music. I won't repeat IMHO, to me, to my ears etc. through this post.

General headlines;
The peak point for me was when I were in Soulution room with a few other guys, near the closing time. They were playing vinyl and the person in charge sad "since this will be the last song, let's play Whole Lotte Love". Briefly told the story of collected very first print with high dynamic range and told He has one copy with some pops and cracks but worth it. Man this was one of my most memorable moments in life, let alone HiFi journey. I always thought my Led Zeppelin records were sounding no "quiet right" and I heard how they were meant to sound like.
Personal disappointment was most probably Audio Reference's organization, all the brands under the right side of the Audio Reference room (Wilson, Dan, WE..) were off more than half of the day on Friday. They held a big press event, closed the doors, and even after they opened the doors, since one-to-one interviews with Mr. Dan, Mr. Wilson and many were going on, there was no music till later. Since these were my last hours available, I didn't have the chance to listen to these; especially Dan + Wilson..
Pilium has taken over as the dominant electronics supplier of the show and they are hands down the greatest winner of the show, at least in the eyes of the industry participants and participants really into HiFi. Every room I entered, without knowing further, when I said "hmmm sounds nice" was at least powered by Pilium.

Room by Room;
These are in no particular order of like or preference, they are as I toured the rooms. Also the rooms not listed here doesn't mean sound was bad or else, maybe I skipped the room or was having time out, changing set-up etc, or most probably the room was just right. Nothing bad, but nothing special -for me- either.

Air Tight Room;
I admire Air Tight gear, especially their amplifiers. A small rom, lots of glass surface, no extra sound treatment but wonderful sound. -If not the- one of the best sound -ing rooms. Didin't want to leave. If it wasn't my first room and I had more time, I would spend more time there. So lovely, such inclusive sound.
View attachment 131061


TBC..

Thanks for sharing your experience in Munich and inspiring me to attend next year.

One room you mention, Air Tight, was a favorite of mine at AXPONA 2024. Small room but exceptionally musical with life and a sound that invited one to stay and listen. Very different supporting electronics than in Munich (Soulution, Franco Serblin, Muse TT/Reed tonearm) but the result apparently was the same.

 

[Lagonda]

I visited this room, the digital source was CEC TL0 transport and they played both CD and LP for me.

Even in show condition (small room, bad AC quality, …) this room was good/acceptable in comparison to many rooms. I am not sure but I think this speaker is not expensive.

View attachment 130807

I am sorry, a $200K speaker is expensive ! You dealers are just hilarious !

 

[Al M.]

The wisest person on this forum posted the reason for differences in opinions at shows during last year's Munich 2023 discussion. I am quoting from him.

===

"If you look at people’s reaction to rooms in a show, a lot of difference in reactions happens because the demos are often uncontrolled. People stroll in often with no reference music of their own, and are at the mercy of what is being played in the room when they get there. At Munich, I have often seen rooms not sounding good on Friday and sounding better on Sunday. This could be due to varying reasons…fluctuating power, or the fact that people often rush in newly made models before the show and burn them in during the show.

People often have different ways of evaluating a show system compared to in room system. Some just look for potential. Some look for the whole ideal sound.

finally lots of agenda based reviews here. I have often seen people who like or own a component that I like, go to a show and say the room the component was in sounded great - they do this just in support, even if it sounded really bad. I have no idea why. I would rather say, this is bad…I don’t want you to hear the component I recommend like this, this is not representative…yet, people say it is sounding great. They even WhatsApp each other to support that room online. What really matters for them at shows is that the room gets positive feedback online.

from none of the above do I conclude people have different tastes. I find that with similar exposure, lack of agenda, and sensibility, if similar audition music is used, tastes align more often than not."

LOL, quoting yourself as the "wisest person on this forum".

 

[Golum]

I find that with similar exposure, lack of agenda, and sensibility, if similar audition music is used, tastes align more often than not."

I might be heavily wrong - but I believe I heard that at one of the shows in Asia (Taiwan maybe) all exhibitors are handed over the CD which they obliged to use...which would align nicely with the point above...

BTW any feedback from Ubiqaudio with Chronosonic and Trafomatic with Tune Audio?

 

[Carlos269]

They made multiple adjustments and electronics upgrades (added another pair of monos for the subs, for example). You don’t have a lot of time to make changes and empty vs. full room matters too. It’s a huge and complex system as well…not some 2-way stand mount.

Okay, I see that the adjustments were more extensive than just repositioning the speakers. The sound should have changed if new or different electronics were installed to alter the tonal balance. In the end, you said that they were able to achieve superb sound in what was previously described as a “horrible room”. Now I’m even more interested to listen to a video of the system on Sunday.

 

[Al M.]

I am sorry, a $200K speaker is expensive ! You dealers are just hilarious !

Totally. Everyone can afford stuff if they just pull out of their magic hat.

If they can't,. they're just suckers. Losers of society. At least that's the perspective of some arrogant filthy rich .

 

[Carlos269]

I think this system has great potential indeed .
If placed in the correct room , and the FR is more balanced out ( adjusted /measured ? .)
It did indeed do things no system at MOC can do , it was the first time i understood wat the designer is trying to achieve.

According to Brad, AC was able to achieve stellar results on Sunday, so this blaming the room does not seem to apply. It’s all too easy of a crutch in my view to reach for the bad room card.

 

[hogen]

Hello Brad,

Thank you for your report and favorites preference ordering.

I find interesting/puzzling the polarization occasioned by the Aries Cerat system. You loved it; Marty didn't like it at all (to put it mildly).

It was not good Thursday and Friday. Saturday was completely different to my ears.