Munich HighEnd 2024

[Al M.]

Your happiness is what ultimately counts

Last year I had a conversation with a distributor about the (poor) performance of his setup compared to his (different) setup the year before - which was my personal 'best of show'.
However, the person in question was convinced that there was nothing wrong and that it sounded good.
I left it at that.

Sorry that you have never heard good sub integration.

 

[Zero000]

This.video of the live musicians sounds good to me. I wonder if everyone can hear the high-frequency extension, bite and grit coming off of those brass horns; nothing smooth or curtailed there.

You happen to have a magic phone that can record real musicians out in nature convincingly but one that cannot record audio systems in room accurately. Go figure!

Exactly.

It does OK with in-room stuff. Sometimes!

If I use it to record my own system, sometimes it's quite good, more often than not it isn't. Same at shows.

 

[Golum]

Munich High-End 2024 - Gy8

Round up and wash up…

gy8.eu

 

[Zero000]

Some say it sucked, others thought the AS system was among the best of show.

One thing is clear: it's not easy to integrate the individual sections (crossovers, time delay/offset etc.), in order to achieve a uniform/homogeneous radiation pattern.

View attachment 131181​

I can think of some club owners who would be jealous of the bass horns

This I think is spot on for this system. Too much distance between the various drivers. You need to be a long way away for it to blend. And with a lot of horn setups you seem to lose any sense of precise imaging at longer distances.

It's probably goes some way to explain why my phone recording of it was so bad.

 

[Zero000]

I think your recordings are better than the 4 hour ones ( Qualio or Totaldac?).
Got any more!?

Qualio was the one I tried.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Sorry that you have never heard good sub integration.

I've heard hundreds of systems with subs, some approaching perfection.

Perfection as far as possible with separate subs, that is
(And yes, I have discussed this topic with Earl Geddes a.o.)

There is an exception: horn subs, preferably of the 'full length' type with mouths that are not excessively undersized.

This could also work well in certain rooms, but it's still a 2-way system:

 

[Al M.]

I've heard hundreds of systems with subs, some approaching perfection.

Perfection as far as possible with separate subs, that is

(And yes, I have discussed this topic with Earl Geddes a.o.)

We can agree to politely disagree on the topic.

 

[Elliot G.]

It is always tempting to make a comparison with cars, while it is of course a case of apples and oranges.

Nevertheless, an analogy can be drawn.
I'm leaving out the fair truck.

If we look at Mercedes and Porsche and consider the core values both brands represent - usable sportiness vs durable comfort - in the light of history, the requirements imposed by government authorities as well as technological and economic developments, bearing in mind this 'law':

View attachment 131204

And we try to distill the pure essence of both brands in terms of engineering, material- & production technologies; some questions arise:

What has changed over time?
What are the effects on the core properties?
And to what extent do both brands still distinguish themselves from the competition compared to the past?
Etc.

apples and oranges is EXACTLY the point. It has nothing to do with anything else no values no brands just nothing in common period.

 

[RCanelas]

Ricardo,
is there a chance that we can listen to your GALLE DAC at HE Munich or Hifideluxe next year?

It's a possibility, lets see if the right opportunity arises

 

[marty]

I find it curious that out of the vast majority of systems featuring at Munich this year , which you chose to label with :

“ So don’t yell at me when I tell you, I heard a ton bad sound today. In general, the show was plagued with Hi-Fi sound, rather than demos that sounded like music. “

You seem to have singled out one particular system , Horns of course , Valves , for exceptional ire and oft repeated denigration , to the point that you seem unable to cease talking about it .

I am not going to delve into speculation regarding any particular motivations which might explain why such a system would be already convicted and on your personal predilection death row before even heard , altho your comment “ because they were supposed to be good “ does rather draw the eye .

But simply to enquire of your considerations regarding the imho , more measured and considered views of another member who attended the same system presentation over the course of the show , a gentleman without any bias , positive or negative in his forum postings that I can recall , never given to emotive hyperbole , a reliable witness if you will :

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/munich-highend-2024.38470/post-969076



https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/munich-highend-2024.38470/post-969086

I was particularily taken with the closing sentence :

“ I'm hoping that everyone that heard it could mask away the room and listen to the underlying beauty there.”

More on the Ares Cerat from Roy Gregoy
https://gy8.eu/blog/munich-high-end-2024-4/

And this year, the coveted DFC Award goes to…​

Aries Cerat turned up at the show with a monstrous system that sounded monstrously bad. In fact, this was arguably one of the most offensive systems I’ve experienced. Integration has never been a strong suit with the AC speakers, but this hit an all-time low. Amongst other things, I was unfortunate enough to hear them playing that old audiophile standard, the Louis Armstrong ‘St. James Infirmary’. Louis clearly missed his vocation. At somewhere above 12’ tall he should have been in the NBA. His trumpet was loaded with tracer ammunition and the bass was so disconnected that it wasn’t so much coming from next door as being freighted in from the next state! Duck For cover indeed...This was genuinely awful. I heard it three times (be glad I suffered so that you don’t have to) and on each occasion there was so much loose, sub-sonic information swilling around that it made me feel nauseous. This was appalling by any standards, but given the asking price for the equipment, you have to wonder whether they were actually listening to the results. It was so dreadful they would have been better off keeping the door locked or simply going for a static display. A run away winner in the “how to make a ridiculous and ridiculously expensive ‘system’ sound absolutely horrendous” stakes, this Aries Cerat fully deserves this year’s DFC – as well as a few other awards besides!

With all due respect to Roy Gregory, I thought the ESD horns gave the Ares Cerat a run for its money for the DFC award.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Munich High-End 2024 - Gy8

Round up and wash up…

gy8.eu

Yikes...Roy Gregory did come down really HARD on the Aries Cerat set-up. Gulp...

"Aries Cerat turned up at the show with a monstrous system that sounded monstrously bad. In fact, this was arguably one of the most offensive systems I’ve experienced. Integration has never been a strong suit with the AC speakers, but this hit an all-time low. Amongst other things, I was unfortunate enough to hear them playing that old audiophile standard, the Louis Armstrong ‘St. James Infirmary’. Louis clearly missed his vocation. At somewhere above 12’ tall he should have been in the NBA. His trumpet was loaded with tracer ammunition and the bass was so disconnected that it wasn’t so much coming from next door as being freighted in from the next state! Duck For cover indeed…".

 

[Argonaut]

More on the Ares Cerat from Greg Weaver
https://gy8.eu/blog/munich-high-end-2024-4/

​

Been Up All Night ? Roy Gregory The hostile witness …. YAWN … There are opinions all over the place

https://www.techradar.com/audio/5-o...fted-speakers-i-heard-at-high-end-munich-2024



https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2024/05/11/friday-at-the-munich-show-munich-2024/



https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/munich-high-end-2024.412508/

 

[bonzo75]

More on the Ares Cerat from Greg Weaver
https://gy8.eu/blog/munich-high-end-2024-4/

And this year, the coveted DFC Award goes to…​

Aries Cerat turned up at the show with a monstrous system that sounded monstrously bad. In fact, this was arguably one of the most offensive systems I’ve experienced. Integration has never been a strong suit with the AC speakers, but this hit an all-time low. Amongst other things, I was unfortunate enough to hear them playing that old audiophile standard, the Louis Armstrong ‘St. James Infirmary’. Louis clearly missed his vocation. At somewhere above 12’ tall he should have been in the NBA. His trumpet was loaded with tracer ammunition and the bass was so disconnected that it wasn’t so much coming from next door as being freighted in from the next state! Duck For cover indeed...This was genuinely awful. I heard it three times (be glad I suffered so that you don’t have to) and on each occasion there was so much loose, sub-sonic information swilling around that it made me feel nauseous. This was appalling by any standards, but given the asking price for the equipment, you have to wonder whether they were actually listening to the results. It was so dreadful they would have been better off keeping the door locked or simply going for a static display. A run away winner in the “how to make a ridiculous and ridiculously expensive ‘system’ sound absolutely horrendous” stakes, this Aries Cerat fully deserves this year’s DFC – as well as a few other awards besides!

With all due respect to Greg Weaver, i thought the ESD horns gave the Ares Cerat a run for its money for the DFC award.

this is Roy Gregory, not Greg weaver

 

[davidavdavid]

this is Roy Gregory, not Greg weaver

It has to be Roy, Greg isn't as subtle.

 

[Audiohertz2]

More on the Ares Cerat from Greg Weaver
https://gy8.eu/blog/munich-high-end-2024-4/

And this year, the coveted DFC Award goes to…​

Aries Cerat turned up at the show with a monstrous system that sounded monstrously bad. In fact, this was arguably one of the most offensive systems I’ve experienced. Integration has never been a strong suit with the AC speakers, but this hit an all-time low. Amongst other things, I was unfortunate enough to hear them playing that old audiophile standard, the Louis Armstrong ‘St. James Infirmary’. Louis clearly missed his vocation. At somewhere above 12’ tall he should have been in the NBA. His trumpet was loaded with tracer ammunition and the bass was so disconnected that it wasn’t so much coming from next door as being freighted in from the next state! Duck For cover indeed...This was genuinely awful. I heard it three times (be glad I suffered so that you don’t have to) and on each occasion there was so much loose, sub-sonic information swilling around that it made me feel nauseous. This was appalling by any standards, but given the asking price for the equipment, you have to wonder whether they were actually listening to the results. It was so dreadful they would have been better off keeping the door locked or simply going for a static display. A run away winner in the “how to make a ridiculous and ridiculously expensive ‘system’ sound absolutely horrendous” stakes, this Aries Cerat fully deserves this year’s DFC – as well as a few other awards besides!

With all due respect to Greg Weaver, i thought the ESD horns gave the Ares Cerat a run for its money for the DFC award.

Zeus responds !

I do Think the word he is looking for on the AC system is “Polarized “ ....!

 

[Audiohertz2]

I've heard hundreds of systems with subs, some approaching perfection.

Perfection as far as possible with separate subs, that is
(And yes, I have discussed this topic with Earl Geddes a.o.)

There is an exception: horn subs, preferably of the 'full length' type with mouths that are not excessively undersized.

This could also work well in certain rooms, but it's still a 2-way system:

View attachment 131208

Geddes discovered multiple subs and wrote a paper about it 25 yrs + after it was a known known by anyone doing it for 4ch or HT or recording studios ..!

So lets say he invented it for the internet

Most problems with integrating subs today is all the error correction after the fact servo controlled subs not to mention the ridiculous low xover hand off from mains to subs, +++...

Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

I've heard hundreds of systems with subs, some approaching perfection.

Perfection as far as possible with separate subs, that is
(And yes, I have discussed this topic with Earl Geddes a.o.)

There is an exception: horn subs, preferably of the 'full length' type with mouths that are not excessively undersized.

This could also work well in certain rooms, but it's still a 2-way system:

View attachment 131208

Thats not a 2 way system for the deaf

 

[marty]

this is Roy Gregory, not Greg weaver

Yes, corrected in my previous post. Thank you.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Yikes...Roy Gregory did come down really HARD on the Aries Cerat set-up. Gulp...

"Aries Cerat turned up at the show with a monstrous system that sounded monstrously bad. In fact, this was arguably one of the most offensive systems I’ve experienced. Integration has never been a strong suit with the AC speakers, but this hit an all-time low. Amongst other things, I was unfortunate enough to hear them playing that old audiophile standard, the Louis Armstrong ‘St. James Infirmary’. Louis clearly missed his vocation. At somewhere above 12’ tall he should have been in the NBA. His trumpet was loaded with tracer ammunition and the bass was so disconnected that it wasn’t so much coming from next door as being freighted in from the next state! Duck For cover indeed…".

Again the word he fails to use and is obviously looking for is “Polarized “ not bad..

 

[Argonaut]

Zeus responds !

I do Think the word he is looking for on the AC system is “Polarized “ ....!

You worship Gregory as a God …. Phewwwww