My minimonitor/subwoofer system

You are most welcome, Al. It is extremely gratifying to learn something while also making changes that improve the sound of one's system - especially when they don't cost anything. Perhaps my comments about the before and after differences were rather drastic. But, some people pay large percentages of overall system cost to eek out that last 5% of performance which can take a system from being pretty good, to extremely involving. But in my experience, that is not usually from a hardware upgrade.

In absolute terms, or measurement terms, no, the changes may not be as drastic as I described, but, honestly, for me, the system went from being not emotionally involving, though sonically impressive in certain areas, and more about sound and artifacts, that is "what is wrong", which distracted from the music. It was transformed to a completely involving and convincing musical experience. That, to me, is drastic and extreme. By the end of the evening, I was struck by just how beautiful the music was, the tone of the voices, the immediacy of the sound, and the presence of the performers being in the room. I could have listened for many more hours.

I want to add, and reiterate a comment I made to you last night. A system which can deliver that amount of emotional connection to the music is not about solid state, tubes, analog or digital. Those distinctions are meaningless, and not even a part of the conscious listening experience, when one is only thinking about the music and the performance. Discussing typologies and making generalizations is for forum talk and usually made by people who have not heard great examples of each. I have learned from hearing your system and comparing it to mine, that the typological differences between our sources and amplification just don't matter in the end, as long as the system as a whole is well assembled and properly set up.

Thank you, Peter, for your follow-up. I agreed with your assessment of the type of changes, and you are right, differences become drastic in perception when they affect the overall involvement in the music. On Monday the rhythm of that Art Pepper+Eleven LP in your system was so infectious that I could not stop tapping my feet. What if the rhythmic performance had been slightly off? I might have admired the great sound, but emotionally it might have left me cold. Now it became a memorable experience that I will not soon forget.

And indeed the typology of sources and amplification becomes irrelevant when the music is entirely involving.

What a wonderful system.

Thank you.
 
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Lately I had been playing a bit more with the acoustics of my room. I bought two large absorbing panels (each 8 feet high, 3.5 feet wide) from Acoustics First, with the plan of covering the front wall with them, as they would expand sideways towards the central window from behind the corner tube traps. The presentation of sound had suffered from too recessed images in many cases, and so far every device that helped deaden the room behind the speakers up to the front wall (carpet and window plugs) had helped in pushing sonic images more forward. I wanted an even more forward presentation in many instances (while absolute depth of stereo imaging, locked in on a number of recordings, always had stayed the same), hence the absorbing panels.

Strangely, while the acoustic panels clearly work, as was obvious with a hand clapping test next to the front wall before and after installation of the panels, they did not help in moving images more forward. It seemed that, beyond the level of deadening of the front half of the room so far, the additional deadening did not help. On the other hand, the panels suppressed treble a bit, an effect not desired. So I decided to move them to the back wall behind the listening seat where they did not influence the sound but at least could be 'stored' in the room; due to their size it was impractical to move them to other rooms of the house. They were there to remain until I decided on further acoustic experimentation. Very recently I pursued the experimentation further, moving one of the acoustic panels in front of the middle stack of tube traps (see images above; the panel has the same color as the tube traps, which is not accurately captured in the images), with the idea to move the middle reflection point behind the speakers further into the room, and yielding some deadening there, by providing a broader absorptive barrier. Now the middle tube traps function as a support for the acoustic panel, while they will still absorb bass frequencies from the subwoofer next to them, close to the front wall. The distance of the absorptive panel from the speakers is still considerable; the speaker drivers are at about 7 feet distance from the front wall.

The new arrangement worked: some too recessed images (e.g., some vocals) came more forward, and especially the clarity of sound improved; sounds far back in the soundstage now seemed less 'lost in space', and more defined in their presence. This was also beneficial for some piano recordings with the instrument at a distance in reverberant acoustic settings. There was no effect on perceived treble extension with this set-up.

I enjoyed my new sound a lot until, to my dismay, I discovered that on some recordings the center image was tilting leftwards. Why would that be? After all, on most recordings the center image was still in the center. But I already had known that something strange might be going on with my room acoustics; on one solo trumpet recording a listener had remarked that she heard the trumpet playing on the left side, while I heard it in the center (that was before I installed the acoustic center panel). Perhaps there was some acoustic issue that some ears reacted to differently, but which now also had caught up with mine? Playing with speaker toe-in didn't help. Removing the subwoofer, located on the left side of the front wall, from its high platform (an 18 inch high ASC subtrap) and putting it on the floor helped to some extent; possibly the raised structure of subwoofer plus trap was skewing the stereo image on some recordings. Moving my chair forward helped too, but I felt uncomfortable with it since I thought I sat very close to the speakers. So instead of moving just my chair forward by six inches (half a foot) I moved the speakers backwards too by the same distance, more towards the front wall. This at first seemed to solve the stereo balance problem as well while keeping the same distance between listener and speakers.

I assessed the sound with the new speaker/seating positioning, now half a foot closer towards the front wall, with speaker drivers at about 6.5 feet distance from front wall instead of about 7 feet. The sounds towards the back of the soundstage seemed more direct which at first seemed exciting, but over multiple recordings I got the nagging feeling that, even though there was still rather good spatial depth of the sound field, the music just didn't quite have the same space to breathe and expand. That just somewhat more shallow distance towards the front wall was clearly audible after all. Putting back the speakers/seat by half a foot to the original position immediately restored the old feeling of spaciousness within which the music could develop, regardless if sounds were portrayed upfront and direct, or towards the back of the stage. – Another thing that I had noticed was a slight 'chesty' coloration of the low midrange with the speakers closer to the front wall (unpleasant on cello and bass voice); this did not quite surprise me since I had noticed on previous tests that in my room the midrange acoustics close to the front wall had a bit of a cavernous, hollow quality when the sound source was located there, and moving the speakers somewhat closer to there brought them in more proximity to the 'danger zone'.

(If like me you have the luxury both of a dedicated listening room and of having enough space lengthwise to play with speaker distance from the front wall (my room is 24 feet long) I strongly would encourage you to do that, you may be surprised by the results. They will, however, also depend on the room acoustics and your system/speaker characteristics.)

While I had the speakers closer to the front wall I also more critically examined the effect of the removal of the sub from the ASC subtrap (link) it stood on and putting it down directly on the carpeted wooden floor. When I had bought the subtrap in 2012 I thought it had some moderate effect, good enough to make me keep it, but it did not seem to make a very significant difference. Now the differences seemed much larger, probably due to enhancements of resolution of my system in the meantime and due to much better bass, as well as rhythm & timing, of the Berkeley DAC compared to my old one; I had acquired the DAC after purchase of the subtrap. Without subtrap the excellent rhythm & timing that I had gotten used to was diminished to some extent; the bass seemed just a tad slow on rock music. Also, there was a somewhat 'plasticky' and 'thuddy' coloration to the bass. What is more, I could not contain my surprise when, while spinning a piece for six percussionists and choir (Wolfgang Rihm, last part of Tutuguri), I heard a 'brownish' coloration from large snare drums the sound of which did not even have lots of bass output! (The somewhat thuddy sound upon subsequent entry of the heavy bass drums was the final nail in the coffin for me.) Putting back the subtrap under the subwoofer confirmed that the 'brownish' coloration of the snare drums had been no illusion; the pristine sound that I had been used to returned. Thus 'saving' the stereo image by removing the elevation of the subwoofer, located on the left side, by the subtrap was not a viable choice.

***

So my options were limited on getting the stereo balance right once more for all recordings (again, only some recordings were affected). I needed the subtrap under the subwoofer, and the speakers had to return to their old position, further away from the front wall (and incidentally, even though at first the stereo balance problem seemed to be solved by moving the speakers more towards the front wall, later on the problem had returned; perhaps there were some other slight position changes in the meantime that had made things irreproducible?).

The last option was again moving the listening chair closer to the speakers despite my initial reservations, which turned out to be unfounded. I was moving the chair 6 inches (half a foot) forward, at a distance of just 8.5 feet from speaker to ear (the centers of the speakers are 8.6 feet apart, so the whole forms more or less an equidistant triangle). Such a short distance from speaker to ear is more easily possible with monitors than with large multiple-driver speakers because of lack of problems with driver blending over less than a certain minimum distance to the ear. I also measured all distances (exact middle between speakers, distance from speakers to center of listening seat) by tape or laser as to make sure that the paths left speaker/left ear and right speaker/right ear were identical. In addition I checked that both speakers had identical toe-in; until these new experiments with set-up the laser references for toe-in at the back wall had been off just a little bit because the listening chair, located in the middle between the speakers, is not exactly in the left-right middle of the room. This time I carefully corrected for that (I had done so in the above configuration with speakers closer to front wall as well). – The stereo balance problem that had been vexing on some recordings seemed solved (yet see below).

Even though images now were often – not always – closer, the spaciousness within which the music could expand seemed mostly as generous as before, unlike the situation when I moved both chair and speakers. While palpability of sonic images always had been high before, now I achieved even more stunningly holographic images on some recordings, as if the singer was standing right in front of me. On some rock recordings it was as if I was sitting 'in' the music, so close and immersive it seemed. Sounds were very fast; on one Green Day song ('Jesus of Suburbia') there is a passage towards the end where explosions of the entire band are surrounding brief solo playing of electric bass or guitar. The 'suddenness' of the music was startling.

On many recordings there is a rich amount of new inner detail audible that I had not noticed before. There is a new world of subtle inner life and vibrations of electric guitar timbres that I hadn't been aware of until now. Separation of instruments, especially on classical music, had been great already but now is better than ever: with ease can I hear new polyphonic side voices that either had not been distinguishable before or simply had not been able to capture my attention; now all these musical strands are so obvious. It is riveting to hear all this new information in clear presentation.

A good part of the heightened perception of speed and detail may also be the more direct path from speaker to ear with less interfering room acoustic (sort of like what you have with headphones), while acoustically the music still has plenty to breathe because of all the space behind the speakers up to the front wall (and also behind my listening seat).

Overall now the system sounds better than ever to my ears. Taking care of set-up can pay rich dividends, in many instances as much as, or more than, upgrades of system components.

***

After all these set-up changes I checked the next day if the stereo balance was still o.k. on those critical recordings: it was not. Why was it fine one day but not the other? Appalled I mused what could be the culprit. Putting the subwoofer in the middle, in front of the panel, solved things only partially. Also, first it looked ugly and second I would have issues with the bass since the sub sounds best relatively close to the front wall, with the smoothest frequency response. Then I thought, what else could I experiment with? In a last effort, born out of desperation to try anything, I turned the corner tube traps from their reflective to their absorptive side. Voilà, the problem was gone. Apparently corner reflections had skewed the stereo imaging on some recordings, and that effect probably depended on temperature and humidity (hence the on/off occurrence). Two days later the problem is still gone, I don’t expect it to come back. I had put the corner traps on their reflective side because I thought this helped somewhat with the sheen of orchestral strings, but in the new configuration strings sound fine also with the absorptive side of the tube traps into the room.

Finally, I also did what my audiophile friends had urged me to do a long time ago, which is moving the CD cabinet on the left side wall further back; the left speaker partially beams against it (I put ASC diffusion panels there to mitigate the effect). For the longest time I had not wanted to do this because moving the large cabinet was impossible with the heavy weight of hundreds of CDs in it; to move it I would have to take out most CDs, move the cabinet and re-insert all those CDs, which would take me two hours. But a few days ago I did all the work, and moved the cabinet one foot backwards (the maximum distance before it hit a window), away from the left speaker. Perhaps the sound is now even more open and free, but I am not quite sure.
 
Al, that is quite a write up. Thank you for describing what you have done and the changes in sound from all of this experimentation. I commend you for the effort and carefully listening to the various changes. You are lucky to have such a good and dedicated room for your audio.

I listened to the system the other night and agree that there is a more immediate, up front presentation compared to before. I think it more closely reflects Al's preference for sitting very close to the stage and performers during live events. It is a very dynamic, lively, immediate sound. This is a great example of one tuning his room/system towards his individual preferences.
 
Thank you, Peter, for your observations. It was very interesting to see your reaction to my new sound, and I can perfectly see why your own personal preference is to sit a bit further back where I used to sit; that old seating position will now also remain my default for other visitors, unless they prefer the close-up perspective. This is indeed a very personal hobby and we all tune our systems specifically towards our own individual preferences. I might start a new thread on this topic someday. -- By the way, I have found that for one recording the new seating position is too in-your-face even for me; it is Michael Buble's Call Me Irresponsible (in some ways a fantastic recording, by the way).

I am glad you also experience the sound as very dynamic and lively, a feature of reproduction that is one of my highest priorities. But then, I know it is also one of yours.
 
I stopped by again tonight to hear the latest iteration of Al's system. He recently treated all of his connections with DeoxIT contact cleaner. Here is an email I just sent to our Boston area listening buddies, MadFloyd and Ack:

"I just returned from hearing Al’s system. Thanks Al for inviting me over. Al has DeoxIT’d? his connections and what a difference it made. The sound is HUGE, and cleaner than before. Resolution seems to have improved and dynamics are amazing as always. He played a CD of James Bond tunes that Tasos recommended and it sounded amazing. Great string texture and body on the Janaki Trio. Brass is explosive with incredible inner detail and body. We rotated the tube traps and small area rug under the listening seat. Congratulations Al, your system has never sounded better. The sound is superb. You guys need to hear it in its current state. Tubes, digital, small two ways plus sub. Really impressive."

I am simply astonished at the supposed difference this DeoxIT stuff made. I am ordering a bottle for myself to try in my own system.
 
I stopped by again tonight to hear the latest iteration of Al's system. He recently treated all of his connections with DeoxIT contact cleaner. Here is an email I just sent to our Boston area listening buddies, MadFloyd and Ack:

"I just returned from hearing Al’s system. Thanks Al for inviting me over. Al has DeoxIT’d? his connections and what a difference it made. The sound is HUGE, and cleaner than before. Resolution seems to have improved and dynamics are amazing as always. He played a CD of James Bond tunes that Tasos recommended and it sounded amazing. Great string texture and body on the Janaki Trio. Brass is explosive with incredible inner detail and body. We rotated the tube traps and small area rug under the listening seat. Congratulations Al, your system has never sounded better. The sound is superb. You guys need to hear it in its current state. Tubes, digital, small two ways plus sub. Really impressive."

I am simply astonished at the supposed difference this DeoxIT stuff made. I am ordering a bottle for myself to try in my own system.

Thanks for your impressions, Peter. I just received my bottle of the Deoxit and will probably try it soon.
 
Thanks, Peter, for the report. Yes, that was an enjoyable evening, and I knew you would be impressed with that brass CD; thanks, Ack, for playing that CD on your system last time, which made me want to buy it. Thanks also for the experiments with the tube traps and carpet, you made me listen to things that I hadn't paid attention to before, and there was an improvement.

The higher resolution from that contact cleaning is quite remarkable, I couldn't believe it myself when I heard it.

Here is the WBF thread by industry expert Tom Mallin who recommended Deoxit GX5 Gold Spray that I used:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1652-Contact-Cleaning-The-Right-Stuff

On page 3 of the thread he goes on to recommend the liquid instead because it is less messy -- if you follow his instructions.
 
Congratulations Al! Surprised that the other folks have not used Deoxit yet all these years. It's necessary at least once a year, and I do it multiple times over the course of a few days - obsession. The gunk that comes out is just incredible. Al, you should get the Mahler 2nd/Bso/Ozawa on Philips - the dynamics are shredding my room to pieces right now, 8:30 in the morning!!!
 
Congratulations Al! Surprised that the other folks have not used Deoxit yet all these years. It's necessary at least once a year, and I do it multiple times over the course of a few days - obsession. The gunk that comes out is just incredible. Al, you should get the Mahler 2nd/Bso/Ozawa on Philips - the dynamics are shredding my room to pieces right now, 8:30 in the morning!!!

Thanks, Ack! Yes, the gunk coming out is impressive, in my case it was the most on the amps' speaker terminals. I suppose you use the liquid form, but I suppose the procedure is similar as with the spray I used. I treated the surfaces and then 'worked' them (according to instructions), i.e. pushing in/pulling out interconnectors once or twice, and tightening/loosening speaker connections, in order to get friction metal on metal. Then I also wiped the connections. After a few minutes I applied again, and after waiting a bit once more for drying I tightened the connections.
 
I use the spray in order to get it into the female RCAs or XLRs, then carefully wipe inside with one of those thin screwdrivers for glasses and paper; so I don't really follow the instructions verbatim. Spraying into a female RCA can be tricky, if it's open inside, as you may spray over the internal circuit board; in those cases, I spray on the paper or Q tip that I am about to insert.
 
I use the spray in order to get it into the female RCAs or XLRs, then carefully wipe inside with one of those thin screwdrivers for glasses and paper; so I don't really follow the instructions verbatim. Spraying into a female RCA can be tricky, if it's open inside, as you may spray over the internal circuit board; in those cases, I spray on the paper or Q tip that I am about to insert.

Good suggestions, thanks.
 
Good suggestions, thanks.

Al,...beautiful system and room! Love the house framing and style as well!

If you had to do all over again, for room treatments, particularly bass traps would you again go with ASC Isothermal Bass Traps? I am looking into these and offerings from Vicoustic, GIK, etc...and wonder about your thoughts on the matter.
 
Al,...beautiful system and room! Love the house framing and style as well!

Thank you!

If you had to do all over again, for room treatments, particularly bass traps would you again go with ASC Isothermal Bass Traps? I am looking into these and offerings from Vicoustic, GIK, etc...and wonder about your thoughts on the matter.

Alas I don't have experience with the other offerings, so I can only speak for the ASC traps. I like them because they are so efficient, also for mid/high frequencies, and also because they can be used to modulate the sound, by going from absorptive to reflective side, or vice versa. Just last weekend I was marveling at how much difference it made just turning the corner traps from the reflective 'dots' pointing towards each other to having the reflective sides (with dots as guide) point with maximum surface into the room (corresponding to a turn of about 45 degrees, or one quarter between fully absorptive and fully reflective). In my case it made the sound more open, in other rooms having the absorptive side forward may be advantageous for tonal balance. The ability to modulate room acoustics in this manner is highly welcome. Given my experiences with ASC products I would definitely go with them again, if I had to do it all over again.

I only have regular tube traps, not the IsoThermal Traps; I wish I had them. That should be my next acoustic adventure. They are designed for the back of the room, to prevent the 'rear wall bounce' of low bass which can muddy things. I am not sure if other companies have something as efficient for absorption of low bass:

http://www.acousticsciences.com/products/isothermal-tubetrap-how-it-works
 
Thank you!



Alas I don't have experience with the other offerings, so I can only speak for the ASC traps. I like them because they are so efficient, also for mid/high frequencies, and also because they can be used to modulate the sound, by going from absorptive to reflective side, or vice versa. Just last weekend I was marveling at how much difference it made just turning the corner traps from the reflective 'dots' pointing towards each other to having the reflective sides (with dots as guide) point with maximum surface into the room (corresponding to a turn of about 45 degrees, or one quarter between fully absorptive and fully reflective). In my case it made the sound more open, in other rooms having the absorptive side forward may be advantageous for tonal balance. The ability to modulate room acoustics in this manner is highly welcome. Given my experiences with ASC products I would definitely go with them again, if I had to do it all over again.

I only have regular tube traps, not the IsoThermal Traps; I wish I had them. That should be my next acoustic adventure. They are designed for the back of the room, to prevent the 'rear wall bounce' of low bass which can muddy things. I am not sure if other companies have something as efficient for absorption of low bass:

http://www.acousticsciences.com/products/isothermal-tubetrap-how-it-works

Al,...thank you very much and have a great day! If you ever move to the IsoThermal Bass Traps, let us know.
 
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New additions/changes to my system:

1. ZenWave Audio D4 interconnect, see:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?22942-ZenWave-Audio-D4-Interconnect

2. Solidsteel HF-A amp stands:

http://solidsteel.it/my-product/hf-a/

Middle rack: It is moved further back in order to allow space for the amp stands. The digital rig moved from the bottom to the top where the amps had been located, the BorderPatrol external power supplies for the amps moved from sitting on wood planks on the floor next to the rack to the bottom shelf of the rack. The empty space between the two power supplies is for a Shunyata Denali 6000S or another new power conditioner to be purchased soon. The old one, still alive and kicking after 25 years, is in the background to the right (Tice Powerblock II).

***

The interconnect performed practically right away like the demo cable that I got from DaveC for auditioning; I consider the greater resolution and treble extension transformative, but of course these things are in the eye of the beholder. Bass is even tighter than before, and has more punch and definition. This may well be due to the new amp stands. Yet since so many changes of location of components have taken place, with also the external power supplies moving from floor to rack, I cannot know for sure. I do not have enough audiophilia nervosa to find out at this point by direct A/B-ing, which is cumbersome, even though I'd like to know ;)

In any case, I am incredibly excited about my new sound.
 
Alas I don't have experience with the other offerings, so I can only speak for the ASC traps. I like them because they are so efficient, also for mid/high frequencies, and also because they can be used to modulate the sound, by going from absorptive to reflective side, or vice versa. Just last weekend I was marveling at how much difference it made just turning the corner traps from the reflective 'dots' pointing towards each other to having the reflective sides (with dots as guide) point with maximum surface into the room (corresponding to a turn of about 45 degrees, or one quarter between fully absorptive and fully reflective). In my case it made the sound more open, in other rooms having the absorptive side forward may be advantageous for tonal balance. The ability to modulate room acoustics in this manner is highly welcome. Given my experiences with ASC products I would definitely go with them again, if I had to do it all over again.

In fact, I made use of that acoustic flexibility with the new interconnects. For proper tonal balance those cables required turning the tube traps back to their absorptive side, rather than the reflective one. That I could perform this simple rotation instead of having to go through playing with additional carpets, textile wall hangings or similar, was enormously convenient and helped in making the right decision in favor of the new interconnects. ASC products are amazing.
 
In fact, I made use of that acoustic flexibility with the new interconnects. For proper tonal balance those cables required turning the tube traps back to their absorptive side, rather than the reflective side. That I could perform this simple rotation instead of having to go through playing with additional carpets, textile wall hangings or similar, was enormously convenient and helped in making the right decision in favor of the new interconnects.

Congratulations on the recent changes. I agree with your assessment about the rotation of the Tube Traps. The reflective strip with the added HF extension of the new IC made for to bright/scattered a sound. The full absorption is much better in your room acoustic. I look forward to hear the changes.

I would also like to know about the contribution, if any, of your new amp stands and the placing of your power supplies on the main rack. As I mentioned before, I would prefer to see the main rack and new amp stands all pushed back slightly. The amps are in front of the plane of the speakers and those tubes look a bit close to the front firing mid/woofer. Just a thought...

Otherwise, it is a nice, clean layout and based on the sound before, it must sound truly wonderful now. Excellent photos too. Thanks for updating and posting.
 
I would also like to know about the contribution, if any, of your new amp stands and the placing of your power supplies on the main rack. As I mentioned before, I would prefer to see the main rack and new amp stands all pushed back slightly. The amps are in front of the plane of the speakers and those tubes look a bit close to the front firing mid/woofer. Just a thought...

Actually I did follow your advice, Peter. The middle rack is pushed back quite a bit *) so that the amp stands can now be much further back than I had them before when you rightfully criticized the layout, and they are inward instead of standing halfway below the speakers. They are well outside the 'firing line' of the speakers, I checked. -- By the way, having them further forward didn't make a sonic difference, at least not that I could tell.

Otherwise, it is a nice, clean layout and based on the sound before, it must sound truly wonderful now. Excellent photos too. Thanks for updating and posting.

You're welcome and thanks. :)

____________

*) if you look closely you can still see the markings from three of the five legs of the middle rack on the carpet, indicating their original position. I have really pushed back the rack considerably.
 
Actually I did follow your advice, Peter. The middle rack is pushed back quite a bit *) so that the amp stands can now be much further back than I had them before when you rightfully criticized the layout, and they are inward instead of standing halfway below the speakers. They are well outside the 'firing line' of the speakers, I checked. -- By the way, having them further forward didn't make a sonic difference, at least not that I could tell.



You're welcome and thanks. :)

____________

*) if you look closely you can still see the markings from three of the five legs of the middle rack on the carpet, indicating their original position. I have really pushed back the rack considerably.

I see those indents in the carpet now. You are right, the main rack is much further back. Can't wait to hear the changes.
 

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