My monitor/subwoofer system

[DaveC]

Dave, it is often about your cables and how you are somehow offended that Al and I did not buy your power cord. You make many subtle references to our not choosing your cord over the ones we bought instead. Here are three examples in this thread. I thought mentioning the specific example would put your comments into context for the rest of the people reading this thread.

"As far as AC power, I don't think this is debatable on an objective level, but if you subjectively feel that not reducing noise and using cables with much poorer objective specifications is an overall improvement who am I to say you're wrong?"

"This has nothing to do with Al's system in particular, but I really don't understand how getting a recording to sound more live by adding excess decay and noise (by handicapping your AC power and vibration controls) can be a good thing outside of personal preference... which as i said is also fine, people should do exactly as they wish, but at that point it's not the pursuit of high fidelity anymore so the setup diverges from the entire goal of high end audio, imo."

"As far as AC power, decay, vibration control, you say it's objectively debatable but nobody is willing to have that debate at all, so I'd say you're totally wrong and neither you nor Peter not ddk have been able to come up with ANY logical argument it's not the case and not just another "tweak". I'm not trying to reopen this subject, but you can't say it's a topic that can never be mentioned, that's not fair."

Dude, it's all in your head, as it was previously.

I'm NEVER offended if someone doesn't buy my cables, there are no universally perfect audio components and why should I think my cables will fit all systems? That's just crazy talk. I don't know how you got this thought into your head, but it's all in your imagination.

But considering when I told you your opinion was an outlier and you accused me of lying to you, I suppose that says it all. You have no respect for me, think I have ulterior motives to sell cables rather than simply posting and sharing my experiences, and this is simply just offensive.

I don't know what to say, but please just STOP, this is ridiculous. At this point I think you shouldn't respond to my posts at all. You can't treat me as a human being. Your posts are offensive, and far divorced from reality at this point.

 

[Al M.]

Now this becomes about my cables again? Seriously? Why are you bringing them up with absolutely no cause, no relation to anything we are discussing? In your thread you forbade me from mentioning them, now you bring them up? Even after Al has said he doesn't want a discussion, yet you quote exactly that and make contentious comments?

I'll just ignore this and not directly respond, thanks anyways for your attempt to stir the pot and continue a conversation that was politely asked to be discontinued. I'm kind of shocked you'd do this...

Agreed, re-opening this discussion here by Peter was unfortunate.

 

[Al M.]

Dude, it's all in your head, as it was previously.

I'm NEVER offended if someone doesn't buy my cables, there are no universally perfect audio components and why should I think my cables will fit all systems? That's just crazy talk. I don't know how you got this thought into your head, but it's all in your imagination.

But considering when I told you your opinion was an outlier and you accused me of lying to you, I suppose that says it all. You have no respect for me, think I have ulterior motives to sell cables rather than simply posting and sharing my experiences, and this is simply just offensive.

I don't know what to say, but please just STOP, this is ridiculous. At this point I think you shouldn't respond to my posts at all. You can't treat me as a human being. Your posts are offensive, and far divorced from reality at this point.

Nobody accused you of lying, Dave. You're being overly dramatic.

 

[Al M.]

You'd lose badly and to be honest I don't have the time. If you think you're going to win a debate on what I do for a living, you're sadly mistaken.

Who said anything about "winning"? In any case, I have opened a thread with apparently the opinion of an engineer:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/audiophile-power-cables-vs-the-cables-in-your-walls.29938/

I would be interested in your and other engineers' response, as well as anyone who would like to chime in.

 

[DaveC]

Nobody accused you of lying, Dave. You're being overly dramatic.

It was in a private message, not in this thread. I won't post the PM but it's the truth.

 

[DaveC]

Who said anything about "winning"? In any case, I have opened a thread with apparently the opinion of an engineer:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/audiophile-power-cables-vs-the-cables-in-your-walls.29938/

I would be interested in your and other engineers' response, as well as anyone who would like to chime in.

The way things have been going lately, I think I'll pass.

I have no idea why Peter is so offended by my claims his system changes are more tweaky than they were before, while also being careful to say I have no problem with it... it's just further from the recording's intent.

Look, all of ddk's stuff... his special PCs, adding steel plates for shelving, oak blocks, no room treatments, etc... produce a system that's far removed from the recording studio's mastering systems. If you enjoy the effect, GREAT! I'm happy for you! I'm sure ddk's system is awesome and totally accept it's one way of doing things. But it's also NOT de-tweaking, Ching Cheng is NOT the definition of neutral, the resulting sound is not natural, imo and whatever that means, it's still a stereo reproduction!

Why this can't be discussed without all the the butt-hurt, I have no idea...


P.S. Don't you find it the least bit odd that Peter has made multiple attempts to write detailed reviews of all the stuff ddk said is bad? It's not just power cables, but other stuff too, and that pretty much every vendor seemed to have a similar reaction? Why is that? Why would you go out of your way to write reviews on stuff you don't like?

 

[Al M.]

It was in a private message, not in this thread. I won't post the PM but it's the truth.

Things allegedly or factually said in private should not be handled in public.

 

[Al M.]

The way things have been going lately, I think I'll pass.

I don't see why you should. If you have a sound perspective from an engineering point of view, I and presumably others would like to hear it.

 

[DaveC]

Things allegedly or factually said in private should not be handled in public.

Well, I think it's quite relevant to how I'm being treated right now and what Peter has been posting.

As far as your thread, no thanks, when I tried to make a technical argument I was told to shut up and stop trying to sell my cables. It's too bad, because under more friendly circumstances I might participate... I find this kind of posting annoying a waste of time, not sure why you think I should subject myself to more of it.

 

[Al M.]

Well, I think it's quite relevant to how I'm being treated right now and what Peter has been posting.

It may be relevant for a private dispute that you seem to be having, not a public discussion.

As far as your thread, no thanks, when I tried to make a technical argument I was told to shut up and stop trying to sell my cables. It's too bad, because under more friendly circumstances I might participate... I find this kind of posting annoying a waste of time, not sure why you think I should subject myself to more of it.

You could have stopped posting about AC power on this thread much earlier today, but you chose to go on, even after I suggested not to. You were subjecting yourself to it, and in the process others as well.

 

[ddk]

The way things have been going lately, I think I'll pass.

I have no idea why Peter is so offended by my claims his system changes are more tweaky than they were before, while also being careful to say I have no problem with it... it's just further from the recording's intent.

Look, all of ddk's stuff... his special PCs, adding steel plates for shelving, oak blocks, no room treatments, etc... produce a system that's far removed from the recording studio's mastering systems. If you enjoy the effect, GREAT! I'm happy for you! I'm sure ddk's system is awesome and totally accept it's one way of doing things. But it's also NOT de-tweaking, Ching Cheng is NOT the definition of neutral, the resulting sound is not natural, imo and whatever that means, it's still a stereo reproduction!

Why this can't be discussed without all the the butt-hurt, I have no idea...


P.S. Don't you find it the least bit odd that Peter has made multiple attempts to write detailed reviews of all the stuff ddk said is bad? It's not just power cables, but other stuff too, and that pretty much every vendor seemed to have a similar reaction? Why is that? Why would you go out of your way to write reviews on stuff you don't like?

Just for the record Dave, Ching Cheng isn't my brand and the power cord is a basic industrial hospital grade mass produced one with no attributed magic powers, it's not a tweak by any stretch of the word. You're welcome to your opinion on it's sound and if you feel removing unnecessary room tampons is tweaking because obviously the room by itself now a tweak!

If you want to know what I mean by detweaking Dave, it starts with power cords which I find the most egregious of all tweaks along with the cat litter boxes. Of course it's always up to the system owner. To clarify I wasn't involved in any way with Peter's decision to go with CC over your power cords, I didn't even know they were testing your cords so whatever your beef is here it has nothing to do with me.

david

 

[ack]

Maybe we should all go out for drinks and talk about cables and Schiit. I just had dinner at a true speakeasy place called Yvonne's https://www.yvonnesboston.com/ where the entry area is a fake barber shop, with a thick metal door leading to the dining room; there is a true speakeasy room in the basement for private parties, and it just happens to be a fabulous art gallery as well. The menu is weird, avant garde Greek Schiit, and I just happened to have had a beautiful 2007 Napa Cab, and those who know, they know. It was impossible not to marvel at the naked art, wine, atmosphere, service and drinks... which says a lot about the food.

The allegory reminds me of this

 

[PeterA]

Great idea Tasos. Glad you liked Yvonne's. Back in the mid 80s, Yvonne's was a private club adjacent to Locke-Ober, the famous men's restaurant/bar with delicious German food. Yvonne's was a private social club at that time which hosted some nice parties. I belonged for a while as their standards were not the most restrictive. My brother hosted my bachelor's party there in 1996, upstairs in the pool room. Nice dinner, dancers, etc. Locke-Ober succumbed to the pressures of today's society and shut its doors a number of years ago.

I went to dinner at Yvonne's, which expanded into the vacant space, a couple of months ago. Service has declined, and is less personal. The place is louder. The artwork is intriguing, but the place is but a shadow of its former self, sadly. Glad they still have some good wine.

 

[DaveC]

Just for the record Dave, Ching Cheng isn't my brand and the power cord is a basic industrial hospital grade mass produced one with no attributed magic powers, it's not a tweak by any stretch of the word. You're welcome to your opinion on it's sound and if you feel removing unnecessary room tampons is tweaking because obviously the room by itself now a tweak!

If you want to know what I mean by detweaking Dave, it starts with power cords which I find the most egregious of all tweaks along with the cat litter boxes. Of course it's always up to the system owner. To clarify I wasn't involved in any way with Peter's decision to go with CC over your power cords, I didn't even know they were testing your cords so whatever your beef is here it has nothing to do with me.

david

For the record, there is no "beef" at all, and this is all way out in left field for me! Primarily because Peter keeps on attacking me about promoting my cables and thinks for some reason I was offended when he didn't like them, etc. It's one of the most bizarre things I've encountered to be honest. This episode was out of nowhere, all of a sudden Peter brings up my cables when it's not even tangentially related to the subject we were discussing.

I also never claimed CC is your brand, just your choice of neutral and for many reasons I dispute that. For now I'd rather not go into it, some are taking this way too seriously.

I fully support you doing whatever you think works, I'm sure it does... in audio there are many paths to nirvana. I'm not sure why we can't discuss the differences in paths without hostility, but it is what it is.

 

[PeterA]

This episode was out of nowhere, all of a sudden Peter brings up my cables when it's not even tangentially related to the subject we were discussing.

Dave, you may want to reread the last few pages of this thread. You are confusing me with Al. You started to discuss AC issues with Al, not me. Here is the exchange between you and Al regarding AC power issues:

Dave: post #288
Al: #291
Dave: #293
Al: #294
Dave: #295
Al: #297

This exchange has absolutely nothing to do with me. My involvement at that point was to discuss other things, nothing to do with you or with AC power issues. I was discussing speaker toe in.

I don't mention anything on the subject of AC power cables until my 6th post after Tasos started the current discussion about speaker toe in. That is post #314, long after you and Al discussed the power issue, and only after you called me, Al and ddk out about some technical discussion about power cords which we all had months ago. I responded only because you brought me into the discussion, not the other way around. And the only other time I engaged you is in post #320 to answer your direct question of me. So you have this all backwards and seem very confused.

So no, it is not I who keep bringing this stuff up. It is you. You were the first to bring up AC power issues into this discussion about the sound of Al's system and speaker toe-in. It was not I.

 

[DaveC]

Dave, you may want to reread the last few pages of this thread. You are confusing me with Al. You started to discuss AC issues with Al, not me. Here is the exchange between you and Al regarding AC power issues:

Dave: post #288
Al: #291
Dave: #293
Al: #294
Dave: #295
Al: #297

This exchange has absolutely nothing to do with me. My involvement at that point was to discuss other things, nothing to do with you or with AC power issues. I was discussing speaker toe in.

I don't mention anything on the subject of AC power cables until my 6th post after Tasos started the current discussion about speaker toe in. That is post #314, long after you and Al discussed the power issue, and only after you called me, Al and ddk out about some technical discussion about power cords which we all had months ago. I responded only because you brought me into the discussion, not the other way around. And the only other time I engaged you is in post #320 to answer your direct question of me. So you have this all backwards and seem very confused.

So no, it is not I who keep bringing this stuff up. It is you.

Even Al said it was unfortunate for you to bring up the subject! Sorry, but you're deluded. How about this Peter, just stop. Stop responding to my posts, put me on ignore, do whatever you have to so you don't get so angry and bent out of shape about me simply posting my opinions. I don't understand your hostility and outrage, and to be honest I'm tired of dealing with it. I'm tired of your person attacks, I'm tired of people that call me a liar, this is just not what I want to have to deal with.

This thing with you writing all these detailed negative reviews and asking to post them on WBF, then starting a thread about it is really odd imo. It makes no sense whatsoever. It's just mean-spirited, the whole thing is so confrontational and ugly. And from what I hear every vendor reacted in a similar fashion, so is it them or is it you? Something to think about...

 

[Al M.]

Even Al said it was unfortunate for you to bring up the subject!

That is true, but as Peter pointed out, you started it in the first place, uninvited and for no reason:

This has nothing to do with Al's system in particular, but I really don't understand how getting a recording to sound more live by adding excess decay and noise (by handicapping your AC power and vibration controls) can be a good thing outside of personal preference... which as i said is also fine, people should do exactly as they wish, but at that point it's not the pursuit of high fidelity anymore so the setup diverges from the entire goal of high end audio, imo.

So you brought the whole episode on yourself.

I think we have spent enough time on this. You suggested to Peter to stop responding to your posts. So please let's just all stop the topic right here and move on.

Thank you all for your consideration.
Al

 

[Lagonda]

Even Al said it was unfortunate for you to bring up the subject! Sorry, but you're deluded. How about this Peter, just stop. Stop responding to my posts, put me on ignore, do whatever you have to so you don't get so angry and bent out of shape about me simply posting my opinions. I don't understand your hostility and outrage, and to be honest I'm tired of dealing with it. I'm tired of your person attacks, I'm tired of people that call me a liar, this is just not what I want to have to deal with.

This thing with you writing all these detailed negative reviews and asking to post them on WBF, then starting a thread about it is really odd imo. It makes no sense whatsoever. It's just mean-spirited, the whole thing is so confrontational and ugly. And from what I hear every vendor reacted in a similar fashion, so is it them or is it you? Something to think about...

”His hostility and outrage” ?
Peter is not exactly a hostile person,
even when he disagrees he is always
very diplomatic. DDK on the other
hand !

 

[Al M.]

”His hostility and outrage” ?
Peter is not exactly a hostile person,
even when he disagrees he is always
very diplomatic. DDK on the other
hand !

May I please ask again that we put this whole thing to rest?

Thank you
Al

 

[DaveC]

Nevermind, this is a waste of time and energy.