New 108 amp model two

[Thieliste]

My Dartzeel distributor told me the NHB-108 will not have enough grip on my speakers and therefore lack of bass.
He has a pair of CS 3.7s at home and has tried many different amp brands with them and came to the conclusion that class A amps gave the best result.
I guess Aries Cerat 65 monos could be a good choice.

 

[redandgold]

My Dartzeel distributor told me the NHB-108 will not have enough grip on my speakers and therefore lack of bass.
He has a pair of CS 3.7s at home and has tried many different amp brands with them and came to the conclusion that class A amps gave the best result.
I guess Aries Cerat 65 monos could be a good choice.

Probably no lack of bass, but no perfect grip and control of the bass drivers. And therefore unprecise bass.

 

[Thieliste]

Probably no lack of bass, but no perfect grip and control of the bass drivers. And therefore unprecise bass.

I'm not spending 32K in an amp that doesn't have enough grip on the bass drivers, better look at things like the Ayre MX-R Twenty.

 

[asiufy]

I'm not spending 32K in an amp that doesn't have enough grip on the bass drivers, better look at things like the Ayre MX-R Twenty.

The 108 is fantastic. I've driven tough loads (Dynaudio) with it, and it was fabulous. Still my #1 stereo amp, after all these years. Ayre? Not even a good example for an amp with good bass control, tons of others do much better in that particular aspect.

 

[asiufy]

And just FYI, and believe I told you this before, a few years ago... I've a local friend who owned the same Thiel speakers as you do, and by far the best amp on them was the CTH-8550 integrated. Nothing could touch it, monoblocks even.
Of course, he has since moved on to different (and better -- to his ears) speakers, and changed the whole system, as audiophiles are prone to do...

 

[Thieliste]

The 108 is fantastic. I've driven tough loads (Dynaudio) with it, and it was fabulous. Still my #1 stereo amp, after all these years. Ayre? Not even a good example for an amp with good bass control, tons of others do much better in that particular aspect.

Thanks for your input, perhaps i should demo the newer 108 model 2 which is more powerful and therefore might have a better grip on the bass driver.

 

[bazelio]

Thanks for your input, perhaps i should demo the newer 108 model 2 which is more powerful and therefore might have a better grip on the bass driver.

I suppose the CS 3.7 is somewhat challenging in that it bottoms out at 2.8 Ohms, and I believe the 108 output power actually declines between 4 ohm and 2 ohms. Coupled with a highish output impedance, I can see it not being the ideal amp (on paper) for those speakers. Way back in the day, I had Thiel CS2.2s and at least back then Classe' amps were a common and great sounding pairing with Thiels. Is that still the case today? Quite honestly, with a speaker that drops into the 2-ohm range, I don't think I'd trust a highish output impedance amp even at higher power like the Model 2. But it can't hurt to try if the opportunity presents itself because the Dart stuff is so good that you really might even want to consider replacing the Thiels if that is what it takes, to be honest.

 

[bazelio]

Wisnon, you are a lucky one. Did you hear them in Switzerland?

In my opinion you to hear the final version in reality. Speculation is interesting, but does not help for judgment.

I asked Hervé too and heard only the model two comes sonically closer to the 458 with deeper bass. But what does this meen? In your mind everything and nothing.

More than this, Herve' told me the Model 2 uses the very same electronic circuitry as the 458, but with a smaller power supply and lower output power. Essentially, it sounds like the Model 2 is a baby 458. Herve' also said "sonic signature and unlimited dynamics" are the new keywords with Model 2. I'm not sure how to interpret that. Perhaps Mr. Lavigne or Alex can shed light on the sonic differences between Model One and 458 as this should roughly tell us about the delta between Model One and Model Two, subjectively.

 

[wisnon]

More than this, Herve' told me the Model 2 uses the very same electronic circuitry as the 458, but with a smaller power supply and lower output power. Essentially, it sounds like the Model 2 is a baby 458. Herve' also said "sonic signature and unlimited dynamics" are the new keywords with Model 2. I'm not sure how to interpret that. Perhaps Mr. Lavigne or Alex can shed light on the sonic differences between Model One and 458 as this should roughly tell us about the delta between Model One and Model Two, subjectively.

Yes, exactly what Hereve told me as well.

I dont know the model 1 , so cant judge. I heard the 458 a few years back and it was a similar experienece.

I will be at Chez Herve this evening, bu not sure how much music we will do.

 

[microstrip]

And just FYI, and believe I told you this before, a few years ago... I've a local friend who owned the same Thiel speakers as you do, and by far the best amp on them was the CTH-8550 integrated. Nothing could touch it, monoblocks even.
Of course, he has since moved on to different (and better -- to his ears) speakers, and changed the whole system, as audiophiles are prone to do...

The CHT-8550 sounds much more powerful than the 108 - it could drive with success my Soundlab A1PX with torroid II, although not the previous version, that was less efficient. Unfortunately, the 108 could not drive any of them and no way the CTH 8550 sound like the NH18-NHB108 combo.

 

[microstrip]

More than this, Herve' told me the Model 2 uses the very same electronic circuitry as the 458, but with a smaller power supply and lower output power. Essentially, it sounds like the Model 2 is a baby 458. Herve' also said "sonic signature and unlimited dynamics" are the new keywords with Model 2. I'm not sure how to interpret that. Perhaps Mr. Lavigne or Alex can shed light on the sonic differences between Model One and 458 as this should roughly tell us about the delta between Model One and Model Two, subjectively.

No possible comparison between the 108 and the 458, IMHO. Even (or particularly ... ) at low levels. I have found this in many other brands, the top model sounds great, but unfortunately the model that is supposed to sound 90% costing one third the price pales compared to the big brother.

 

[asiufy]

Yes you're right, you can't compare the CTH-8550 to the 108... The 108 is much better

I always thought the 458 and the 108 sounded alike. What makes the 458 special is the virtually unlimited power, which causes the music to flow free, attacks gain an extra "bite". Even on a reasonably efficient speaker (Evolution Acoustics), it was easy to hear what the 458 was doing over the 108, and it was basically all about all that extra power on tap.

The only issue I see with the 108 (mk1) is the opposite of what the 458 brings. Not enough power. In a large-ish room, with inefficient speakers, the music will seem constrained, imbalanced, and even shouty at times. But in the right room, with the right speakers, I don't know any other stereo amp that does what it does.

I'm dying to hear the mk2 now. Plans are afoot for that to happen sooner rather than later, so we'll see

alex

 

[Thieliste]

Yes you're right, you can't compare the CTH-8550 to the 108... The 108 is much better

I always thought the 458 and the 108 sounded alike. What makes the 458 special is the virtually unlimited power, which causes the music to flow free, attacks gain an extra "bite". Even on a reasonably efficient speaker (Evolution Acoustics), it was easy to hear what the 458 was doing over the 108, and it was basically all about all that extra power on tap.

The only issue I see with the 108 (mk1) is the opposite of what the 458 brings. Not enough power. In a large-ish room, with inefficient speakers, the music will seem constrained, imbalanced, and even shouty at times. But in the right room, with the right speakers, I don't know any other stereo amp that does what it does.

I'm dying to hear the mk2 now. Plans are afoot for that to happen sooner rather than later, so we'll see

alex

Alex i hope you can get a 108 mk2 pretty soon for audition and let us know about the power difference with the mk1.

 

[bazelio]

No possible comparison between the 108 and the 458, IMHO. Even (or particularly ... ) at low levels. I have found this in many other brands, the top model sounds great, but unfortunately the model that is supposed to sound 90% costing one third the price pales compared to the big brother.

Different animals with different sound signatures - and obviously power ratings. But I was speaking of the Model Two, which neither of us have heard, and was simply relaying Herve's notes.

 

[bazelio]

Yes you're right, you can't compare the CTH-8550 to the 108... The 108 is much better

I always thought the 458 and the 108 sounded alike. What makes the 458 special is the virtually unlimited power, which causes the music to flow free, attacks gain an extra "bite". Even on a reasonably efficient speaker (Evolution Acoustics), it was easy to hear what the 458 was doing over the 108, and it was basically all about all that extra power on tap.

The only issue I see with the 108 (mk1) is the opposite of what the 458 brings. Not enough power. In a large-ish room, with inefficient speakers, the music will seem constrained, imbalanced, and even shouty at times. But in the right room, with the right speakers, I don't know any other stereo amp that does what it does.

I'm dying to hear the mk2 now. Plans are afoot for that to happen sooner rather than later, so we'll see

alex

I'm dying too. The reason why the 108 works so well for me right now is that I have a smallish / intimate room and 90dB drivers. I don't need the extra power of the Model Two, and so the only question is the sound comparison between it and the Model One. The price of the upgrade, while not terribly outlandish for Ones that already have the SCNP installed (like mine), is still significant enough that the sound improvement would need to be much greater than marginal...

 

[KeithR]

I'm dying too. The reason why the 108 works so well for me right now is that I have a smallish / intimate room and 90dB drivers. I don't need the extra power of the Model Two, and so the only question is the sound comparison between it and the Model One. The price of the upgrade, while not terribly outlandish for Ones that already have the SCNP installed (like mine), is still significant enough that the sound improvement would need to be much greater than marginal...

Considering the model has been out for over 10 years, my guess is the upgrade is significant!

 

[Thieliste]

Is the 108 model 2 capable of delivering quite a bit of current ?

 

[bazelio]

Is the 108 model 2 capable of delivering quite a bit of current ?

I suggest talking to Herve' about it. He's very responsive and helpful. Let us know what he says.

 

[Thieliste]

I suggest talking to Herve' about it. He's very responsive and helpful. Let us know what he says.

I sent him an e-mail.

 

[Thieliste]

Last time i talked to him he told me the CTH-8550 does very well with Thiel CS 3.7s, he has a couple of clients in Switzerland that own this combo.
Obviously the CTH-8550 is more powerful than the 108 model 2.