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Hyperion will not play on current gain phono stages,
Are you saying that one cannot use the Hyperion with a regular phono stage, even one which supports low output moving coil?
Next steps with Soundsmith Fixed Coil cartridges
- Thread starter shakti
- Start date
Are you saying that one cannot use the Hyperion with a regular phono stage, even one which supports low output moving coil?
No, he's saying it won't work with current sensing phonos, two of which are CH and VdH. Though the CH has standard MC/MM voltage inputs also.
The reputation is that of a repair shop. If you're not sending back to the manufacturer, then most likely you're sending a cart to Soundsmith for rebuild. Peter also may be seen as somewhat of a mad scientist. Strain gauge is far from mainstream, and for a while was derided for its rising response that resulted in shrillness. I know there had been many revisions of the Soundsmith energiser box, some of which tried (or did?) ameliorate this sound signature. Either way, it's a bit difficult to make the leap to strain gauge without trying it first if for no other reason than it being unusual. Then the conventional carts produced by Soundsmith are also, well, unconventional - and of course they'll tell you "better". Low output, moving iron, high inductance when everyone else makes moving coil, low inductance carts that better work with SUTs. But, apparently an entire industry has gone in the wrong direction, SS wants us to believe. Also a tough sell, even if 100% true. So I think they fight a never ending uphill battle, no matter how good. Just by virtue of being SO different.
Bazelio, more reason to love Peter and his carts. As the world moves in divergent directions to more "me too" indistinguishable pap, plus hyperinflated and uber overmarketed ephemera, it's a joy to find a hands on guy w fingers in new build and repairs pies, not overcharging, bringing value to the market, providing many voices to choose from AND having strong opinions on what is felt to be dead ends or illogical paths. There are plenty of more pricey and conventional carts to choose from. My spkrs designer also feels the industry has taken the wrong detour w multidriver/crossover intensive/inefficient designs. Any my rim drive tt/LT air arm hardly fits the industry standard Lol.
I didn't even know it when I invested in the SG, but Peter's philosophy fits my love for the "small, proud, allergic to overpricing, and by definition, opinionated designer" profile.
And totally justified in the end result of SG playing vinyl day to day. For replacement stylii at just under $3k for two, to incl energiser upgrades, and cash saved on redundant phono, SG also works out the cheapest l/t option for running a top echelon cart.
I didn't even know it when I invested in the SG, but Peter's philosophy fits my love for the "small, proud, allergic to overpricing, and by definition, opinionated designer" profile.
And totally justified in the end result of SG playing vinyl day to day. For replacement stylii at just under $3k for two, to incl energiser upgrades, and cash saved on redundant phono, SG also works out the cheapest l/t option for running a top echelon cart.
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Today I continued my Soundsmith journey 
The SGS-6 cantilever on the SG-210 has now some more hours on it, so I enjoyed the B-60 VTA on fly adjustment possibility of my Ikeda 407. The Strain Gauge Cart is very sensitive (as all "sharp" carts) on VTA and Azimuth, but with B-60 it is just fun to bring it to the point.
No comparison in doing this with my SME 3012R and Hyperion OCL, which has taken much more time.
VTA is now on the point, close to parallel. Azimuth nearly, but as I am going to change the headshell anyhow, I stopped further fine tuning.
Doing VTA, there is a point (in both directions) , where the SG is loosing all of his benefits. So the SG is easy to adjust,
as the cart is very responsive on the fine tuning.
In the meatime I spent some time reading all the SG reviews out there. And I am wondering a little, as mostly the reviewer have heard the Cartridge close to harsh or even sharp. Fremer compared to with a panel speaker in comparison to standard transducers.
My set up (after VTA and VTF fine tuning) shows the SG tonal balance between the Lampizator / Hyperion combination (warm side) and the Boulder 2008/Hyperion combination. So would say, well balanced.
The Hyperion / Lampizator combination is ok, but not the best you can do for both components, I would say, the Soundsmith Fixed Coil Carts do not like standard integrated Step Ups too much, even if theoretically the impedance value matches.
As the most tube phono stages do use step ups, I would not recommend this pairing.
But listening to the "clear" character of the Hyperion, I can imagine, that an Aesthetic IO will be a great try
Listing to my Boulder 2008 and the Fixed Coil Carts is a great pairing as well. I never heard the Boulder 2008 so "natural" and "smooth".
A phono stage like the Boulder 2008 ( similar to CH P1) does show the character of a Cartridge. An Ortofon SPU sounds like colored, a vdh Master Signature can be great, but mostly the Boulder makes the "S" a clear pain while listening, An Ikeda Cart can sound a little slow an boring and so on. Means, that such a Phonostage makes a non natural way of playing music alway very clear, sometimes too clear.
And now the Hyperion shows, that the Boulder can make "music" without focussing on the sound the "master" has given to the individual cartridge. May be ist is just me, who is enjoying this Hyperion so much, because it fits my personal taste and understanding of "natural" reproduction so much.
I definitely can recommend a try!
And because of the Hyperion / Boulder 2008 quality, I will invest more time into my Strain Gauge to get it better sing.
If it can beat the Hyperion / Boulder Pair, it would be a great saving
In the meantime other Soundsmith Carts are arrived, that I can compare even more !
- Soundsmith Zephyr MMiC star, low compliance, low output
- Soundsmith Sussurro MkII, low compliance, low output
Zephyr is entry level (2500,- eur in Germany), the Sussurro MkII is just over the Paua , having a different Cantilever (6250,- eur in Germany)
The Zephyr will end up on my brothers turntable (Goldnote Mediterraneo), but before I can do the trial on my AF3P.
The Sussurro MkII might become my Cart on the J Sikora Reference turntable (FR64s tonearm), but not yet finally decided.
At first I like to hear the difference between Paua and Sussurro.
The SGS-6 cantilever on the SG-210 has now some more hours on it, so I enjoyed the B-60 VTA on fly adjustment possibility of my Ikeda 407. The Strain Gauge Cart is very sensitive (as all "sharp" carts) on VTA and Azimuth, but with B-60 it is just fun to bring it to the point.
No comparison in doing this with my SME 3012R and Hyperion OCL, which has taken much more time.
VTA is now on the point, close to parallel. Azimuth nearly, but as I am going to change the headshell anyhow, I stopped further fine tuning.
Doing VTA, there is a point (in both directions) , where the SG is loosing all of his benefits. So the SG is easy to adjust,
as the cart is very responsive on the fine tuning.
In the meatime I spent some time reading all the SG reviews out there. And I am wondering a little, as mostly the reviewer have heard the Cartridge close to harsh or even sharp. Fremer compared to with a panel speaker in comparison to standard transducers.
My set up (after VTA and VTF fine tuning) shows the SG tonal balance between the Lampizator / Hyperion combination (warm side) and the Boulder 2008/Hyperion combination. So would say, well balanced.
The Hyperion / Lampizator combination is ok, but not the best you can do for both components, I would say, the Soundsmith Fixed Coil Carts do not like standard integrated Step Ups too much, even if theoretically the impedance value matches.
As the most tube phono stages do use step ups, I would not recommend this pairing.
But listening to the "clear" character of the Hyperion, I can imagine, that an Aesthetic IO will be a great try
Listing to my Boulder 2008 and the Fixed Coil Carts is a great pairing as well. I never heard the Boulder 2008 so "natural" and "smooth".
A phono stage like the Boulder 2008 ( similar to CH P1) does show the character of a Cartridge. An Ortofon SPU sounds like colored, a vdh Master Signature can be great, but mostly the Boulder makes the "S" a clear pain while listening, An Ikeda Cart can sound a little slow an boring and so on. Means, that such a Phonostage makes a non natural way of playing music alway very clear, sometimes too clear.
And now the Hyperion shows, that the Boulder can make "music" without focussing on the sound the "master" has given to the individual cartridge. May be ist is just me, who is enjoying this Hyperion so much, because it fits my personal taste and understanding of "natural" reproduction so much.
I definitely can recommend a try!
And because of the Hyperion / Boulder 2008 quality, I will invest more time into my Strain Gauge to get it better sing.
If it can beat the Hyperion / Boulder Pair, it would be a great saving
In the meantime other Soundsmith Carts are arrived, that I can compare even more !
- Soundsmith Zephyr MMiC star, low compliance, low output
- Soundsmith Sussurro MkII, low compliance, low output
Zephyr is entry level (2500,- eur in Germany), the Sussurro MkII is just over the Paua , having a different Cantilever (6250,- eur in Germany)
The Zephyr will end up on my brothers turntable (Goldnote Mediterraneo), but before I can do the trial on my AF3P.
The Sussurro MkII might become my Cart on the J Sikora Reference turntable (FR64s tonearm), but not yet finally decided.
At first I like to hear the difference between Paua and Sussurro.
Shakti, of all the install SQ issues I've had w the SG, none were ever to be described as "sharp" etc.
Indeed, my issues were of softness and blunted treble, but that was less the cart, and more the SG LPS needing 100 hrs minimum of burn in (not 100 hrs just powered up, but 100 hrs of actual signal going thru it, ie 130 odd lps worth of sheer hell Lol), plus a dozen other upgrades at the same time vying to settle down.
No doubt, azimuth is critical, as is VTA and VTF. I think I've gone as far as I can. So, "sharp", no. But smooth, fast, lush, extended and fast, yes.
Indeed, my issues were of softness and blunted treble, but that was less the cart, and more the SG LPS needing 100 hrs minimum of burn in (not 100 hrs just powered up, but 100 hrs of actual signal going thru it, ie 130 odd lps worth of sheer hell Lol), plus a dozen other upgrades at the same time vying to settle down.
No doubt, azimuth is critical, as is VTA and VTF. I think I've gone as far as I can. So, "sharp", no. But smooth, fast, lush, extended and fast, yes.
Shakti, I am so interested in yr take on SG fully loaded w LPS, optimised and fully burnt in. I have looked at other carts and phonos, esp to allow a tube flavour, but the maxxed SG sound is so compelling here, my interest to expt remains just a whim.
For MikeL and SteveW, Etsuro Gold is their likely endgame cart. SG is mine.
For MikeL and SteveW, Etsuro Gold is their likely endgame cart. SG is mine.
My Hyereion is saying load should be : > 470ohm
DCR is 11ohm
inductivity 2,75 mh
I tried on my Lampizator MC1 in internal step with the 500ohm load position.
It is working, but not the level you would expect from a Hyperion.
I fully agree, that a customized Step Up (and a view of the integrated) will work with a Soundsmith fixed coil cartridge, but the majority of integrated step ups are designed for low impedance, low DCR MC cartridges.
Shakti, that SG is sooooo easy. Ditch yr phono stage, get downpayment on the SG package. Never have to worry about phono loading again. Get replacement stylus AND upgrades to energiser for only 1/3 the cost of other big name stylus retipping. Simple LPS upgrade for even better sound. Sit tight and immerse yself in a sound right up there w the best, lush tonality and class leading speed all in one package.
I'm listening to Bach Harpsichord Concertii, Murray Hill 1972 Records box sets, and the vibrancy and lightning fast impact of the harpsichord feels very realistic to me.
Initially I thought my rim drive tt and air LT arm lack of overhang might make the SG sound dry and tight. I mean the Lyra Skala I owned for a short time 15 years ago was so dry it was like swallowing a glass of sand.
However, the SG has a lush midband melodiousness which means it's speed augments my LT arm reflexes, and that mids density of the SG augments the fast, hewn from stone bass that my rim drive tt is so adept at.
What COULD have been a jittery, harsh combination is nowhere near.
I'm listening to Bach Harpsichord Concertii, Murray Hill 1972 Records box sets, and the vibrancy and lightning fast impact of the harpsichord feels very realistic to me.
Initially I thought my rim drive tt and air LT arm lack of overhang might make the SG sound dry and tight. I mean the Lyra Skala I owned for a short time 15 years ago was so dry it was like swallowing a glass of sand.
However, the SG has a lush midband melodiousness which means it's speed augments my LT arm reflexes, and that mids density of the SG augments the fast, hewn from stone bass that my rim drive tt is so adept at.
What COULD have been a jittery, harsh combination is nowhere near.
Ah your 500 ohm setting is probably at 470ohm... I.e. 1:10 in front of the 47k MM stage. It really should be higher in value if possible, as there will be some HF rolloff with 470 given the inductance. I'd aim for 700 or higher. The low impedance windings could make a difference too. When I had the Red Sparrow loaner with DCR 13 ohms, it sounded fairly dead on a low resistance SUT. Much better with a 15 ohm SUT.
PS Marc, you're sounding like an encyclopedia salesman. ;-)
Or someone touting Lampi, no shortage here. I tend to be an enthusiastic fellow, and Soundsmith has had nr zero visibility on WBF as long as I can remember. Just trying to counterbalance.
And it really is worth promoting the ease/relative affordability of SG. A top tier cart and phono, $15-25k, retip costs $7-10k.
SG (no phono) $11k, add $1k for LPS. Stylus repl $1-1.5k.
Maths looks good.
And it really is worth promoting the ease/relative affordability of SG. A top tier cart and phono, $15-25k, retip costs $7-10k.
SG (no phono) $11k, add $1k for LPS. Stylus repl $1-1.5k.
Maths looks good.
Well surely if people like your products as much there will be a whole posse rather than a lone voice
As said, it is easy to customize a step up with the correct value, but my Lampi MC1 was ordered for low DCR MC Cartridges. Lukasz can fit other configurations as well, so no problem for the MC1 to play nicely with Soundsmith fixed coil carts.
I am not going to change my MC1 , as this phono stage makes great music with my existing MC carts, where my Boulder sometimes sounds too thin and liveless.
On the other side the Boulder is great with my fixed coil carts.
And Marc is fully right. The Strain Gauge should be the measure, or better saying, the reference for Peter Ledermann sound DNA.
I am waiting, that I can hear the SG210 with a better external power supply, really looking forward to this
Today I changed the Headshell from Yamamoto Carbon to Yamamoto wood.
The wooden Yamamoto Headshell looks like the OEM Version of the Soundsmith headshell, so I am expecting a good match.
Headdhell leads are the vdh platinum. The Headshell finger is the Yamamoto TY1 Titan version.
The difference is clearly audible, but smaller, than I am used to this change. Seems, that the Soundsmith Strain Gauge is less sensible to Headshell damping and - leads than some of my other Carts.
The effect is, that the SG sounds now a little more lean and has more resolution. I was expecting the change of tonal balance just the other way around. But I I am happy to learn and to understand the SG210 Cart
May be I should try the Yamamoto Titanium Headshell as well.
The wooden Yamamoto Headshell looks like the OEM Version of the Soundsmith headshell, so I am expecting a good match.
Headdhell leads are the vdh platinum. The Headshell finger is the Yamamoto TY1 Titan version.
The difference is clearly audible, but smaller, than I am used to this change. Seems, that the Soundsmith Strain Gauge is less sensible to Headshell damping and - leads than some of my other Carts.
The effect is, that the SG sounds now a little more lean and has more resolution. I was expecting the change of tonal balance just the other way around. But I I am happy to learn and to understand the SG210 Cart
May be I should try the Yamamoto Titanium Headshell as well.
Now I am trying the Yamamoto 5s Titanium headshell with thick copper leads.
Mostly the Dereneville headshell mat works good, if a metal/metal connection between cart and Headshell is given,
so I am using the Dereneville in this case as well.
The Titanium Headshell is a massive heavy one, so I have chosen the light alloy screw out of the Soundsmith Screw set.
If I use the Hyperion/Boulder combination as my tonal master, than I am most close to this signature with the Yamamoto HS4s Titanium Headshell. My test record today is a Johnny Hartman one. The voice of Johnny should sound like free singing in clear sized room. The energy focus should be on the voice and not on the other instruments.
I am not sure, if the material of the headshell is making the difference , as the response to the material is different, than known before.
My guess would be, that the SG210 is more sensible to the right match regarding Tonearm effective mass and Cantilever compliance.
This would explain, why Peter Ledermann has launched the kit of different screws in different weightclasses to make in this area fine adjustments possible.
I will continue my next steps of fine tuning with the Yamamoto 4s headshell, which seem to me the best partner for the Ikeda 407 tonearm (old version).
Mostly the Dereneville headshell mat works good, if a metal/metal connection between cart and Headshell is given,
so I am using the Dereneville in this case as well.
The Titanium Headshell is a massive heavy one, so I have chosen the light alloy screw out of the Soundsmith Screw set.
If I use the Hyperion/Boulder combination as my tonal master, than I am most close to this signature with the Yamamoto HS4s Titanium Headshell. My test record today is a Johnny Hartman one. The voice of Johnny should sound like free singing in clear sized room. The energy focus should be on the voice and not on the other instruments.
I am not sure, if the material of the headshell is making the difference , as the response to the material is different, than known before.
My guess would be, that the SG210 is more sensible to the right match regarding Tonearm effective mass and Cantilever compliance.
This would explain, why Peter Ledermann has launched the kit of different screws in different weightclasses to make in this area fine adjustments possible.
I will continue my next steps of fine tuning with the Yamamoto 4s headshell, which seem to me the best partner for the Ikeda 407 tonearm (old version).
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