Notes from the NY Audio Show

[lasercd]

Myles:

Bill Parrish was spinning vinyl with the Brinkmann table. I think a lot of the exhibitors were having more than typical issues with the room acoustics. I'm sure the Waldorf has serious restrictions regarding sound treatment application.

With regards to the ultrasonic record cleaner I watched it s**t the bed at CES. A NYC distributor we both know has one and had nothing but aggravation with it. Cool machine. Good to hear they worked the kinks out. For $3000 it should spend its time cleaning records and not accruing milegage going back and forth to Germany for repair.

Ken

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles:

Bill Parrish was spinning vinyl with the Brinkmann table. I think a lot of the exhibitors were having more than typical issues with the room acoustics. I'm sure the Waldorf has serious restrictions regarding sound treatment application.

Oh and forgot to mention too in these rooms that where you sat made all the difference in the world. Given how crowded the show has been to date, it was hard to hear from a good seat. Hopefully, will get to hear more of the rooms today when traffic might be a little less.

Curious what you thought the issues were? The low end? In the past, I never could get past the YG's "mechanical" quality. That wasn't there this time. On my albums, thought the YG's had a huge soundspace, nice midrange and extension and good imaging. On Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side, the YG's really let you see and feel Lou singing. On Saint-Saen's Carnival of the Animals (EMI Gold/Cream pressing), the pianos were a little heavy but the music was really moving and string tone and articulation was really top notch (for a show anyway). See I am still prejudiced by the mids I get out of the ML stats. I also thought the YGs did a good job on the recently reissued 45 rpm TBM reissue of Blow Up. Percussion and synth just hung in the air and were really extended with sounding overly hard like many other room. There was also great textures on the synth. The mids were really clean and articulated. OTHO, the standup bass overpowered the room.

Those room issue really affected other rooms too such as Robin Wyatt's set up with the Quad 57s. Yes you could hear the midrange magic, esp. with those new OTLs, but the rest was well.....

Possibly and exhibitors didn't have the extra day to fine tune their rooms. Plus, it was the first time in this venue; usually exhibitors, if they like their room, get the same space year after year and know how to handle the acoustical problem. Maybe next year, the show will go a little more smoothly and the room issue will be better tamed!

With regards to the ultrasonic record cleaner I watched it s**t the bed at CES. A NYC distributor we both know has one and had nothing but aggravation with it. Cool machine. Good to hear they worked the kinks out. For $3000 it should spend its time cleaning records and not accruing milegage going back and forth to Germany for repair.

Ken

Agreed. And one reviewer even wrote about an issue he encountered with the machine. As we know, the more complex the unit, the greater the number of issues OTOH, I've had issues with practically every RCM I've ever used--and that's been quite a few Eventually, the kinks get ironed out with the manufacturers assistance. That's why one when one gets a new RCM, they should always start with cleaning a junky record until they're sure the RCM is working correctly.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Myles:

With regards to the ultrasonic record cleaner I watched it s**t the bed at CES. A NYC distributor we both know has one and had nothing but aggravation with it. Cool machine. Good to hear they worked the kinks out. For $3000 it should spend its time cleaning records and not accruing milegage going back and forth to Germany for repair.

Ken

i've owned the Audio Desk System RCM for 3 years. the early production had problems; some of which were people over-filling it and getting fluid in the electronics. my unit worked flawlessly for over 2 years; then after the warranty ran out i did have a motor failure. still; the distributor gave me the choice of free repair in Germany with me paying the frieght, or doing a free exchange with a refurbed unit in stock on the east coast, which i did.

all in all; if you want a maximum listening time, and clean Lps, it's the way to go. you do need to be careful on following instructions. and it does have trouble with thin pressings; since it uses a squeegy to remove most of the fluid prior to air drying. you need to touch up thin pressings with hand drying to some degree.

a few months ago i did purchase another RCM, the Loricraft PRC4 Dlx, so i can use the multi-step cleaning fluids and do the thin pressings easier. i like having both the easy quick one-step and the alternative method.

i do recommend the Audio Desk System RCM with those reservations. it makes my listening more fun and cleaning less of a hassel.

2 years ago i purchased a 2500 Lp Classical Collection. i then spent 3-4 months cleaning and listening to the best of this wonderful fresh new-to-me, vinyl. i went thru likely 700-800 Lps from that collection. i would put one Lp on the Audio Desk RCM out in the hall, and listen to another at the same time, after 5-7 minutes the buzzer would sound and i would go out, take the Lp off the RCM and put it into the fresh sleeve, then put on another Lp....go back to listening to the other Lp. i'd listen to each Lp as long as i enjoyed it. i took a musical journey deep into classical music that could only have been possible with a machine like the Audio desk. i listened to maybe 10-15 Lps in an evening; i learned, i was blown away by many Lps and the music was amazing. just for that experience the Audio Desk was worth it. if i would have tried that with any other RCM i would have lost interest very quickly.

listening while cleaning is the hot tip.

 

[microstrip]

i've owned the Audio Desk System RCM for 3 years. (...) Listening while cleaning is the hot tip.

I am jealous - the only thing I dislike in my old and faithful VPI HW17 is the very loud noise while cleaning.
Do you have any experience with the Clearaudio Smart Matrix or the old Double Matrix?

 

[flez007]

listening while cleaning is the hot tip.

...I do the same while ripping my CD collection to the Mach2 Server Mike...listen to the next-to-be-ripped while ripping the later one.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I am jealous - the only thing I dislike in my old and faithful VPI HW17 is the very loud noise while cleaning.
Do you have any experience with the Clearaudio Smart Matrix or the old Double Matrix?

i've not tried either Clearaudio machine. i did own a VPI 16.5 for 9 years. very noisey, and the wide suction arm always retained dirt so my Lps were never really all the way clean. i'm not sure if the Clearaudio uses the wide suction approach. the wide suction approach is always very noisely as the vaccum needs to be powerful.

i like the Loricraft (and Monk) method with fresh thread for every pass. as far as clean, it's the least compromised approach for getting every last spec of dirt. you still have to deal with dirt on the platter contaminating the clean side to some degree.

the Audio Desk uses friction from the brushes and the ultrasonic effect. you can vary the length of the washing action up from 1 minute to 7 minutes.

 

[puroagave]

Those room issue really affected other rooms too such as Robin Wyatt's set up with the Quad 57s. Yes you could hear the midrange magic, esp. with those new OTLs, but the rest was well.....

i wasnt there but saw the vid. why people still use 57's on the stubby legs is beyond me...a nostalgia thing? once you've put them on stands (18" works wonders) tilted forward with the diaphrams 90 degrees to the floor, they come alive like no other.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

...I do the same while ripping my CD collection to the Mach2 Server Mike...listen to the next-to-be-ripped while ripping the later one.

i'm not sure digital counts.

as far as ripping CD's; when my son ripped most of my CD's for my server a few years ago, he used a Kodak disc shuttle which was designed for copying photo discs. you can load 50 discs into the shuttle and it will sit there and feed the discs into your server all night. then he would have to tell it to retrieve all the meta information and cover art. no need to sit there and feed anything and it's even done in another room.

i still have that Kodak shuttle upstairs for when i do the rest of my CD's.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Funny how people can hear the same systems and come away with different impressions. I thought the Scaena system was OK. Sounded better when I heard them at CES in the past. The YG/Solution/Brinkmann room was a huge disappointment. My friend turned to me and said "this sucks" and I had to agree. I thought the Kipod setup in the Veloce room sounded much better.

That record cleaner is stupidly cool but my understanding is the quality control is nil. Heard first hand reports (and read) about them breaking.

Oh Ken forgot one other thing. There was a problem in the Scaena room that they didn't find out til later Someone had hit the button and the LPs were being played back via a Columbia EQ. Not a subtle difference when switched to a normal RIAA. Not sure why Columbia selected such a weird turnover, eq?

 

[MylesBAstor]

i wasnt there but saw the vid. why people still use 57's on the stubby legs is beyond me...a nostalgia thing? once you've put them on stands (18" works wonders) tilted forward with the diaphrams 90 degrees to the floor, they come alive like no other.

Neither do I. Tim de also kept his on the stubby legs when he showed them at the Heathrow Show years ago.

Robin's 57s are stock except the parts have been upgraded with new modern caps for example. He claims the new parts add about 3 dB in efficiency and less arcing to the 57s. For me, it's a dated design no matter how much you cherish midrange (and I think modern estats have far better mids) and its weaknesses (top end, image height, bottom end) drive me crazy. OMMV

The sad part of the show is that a couple of exhibitors (Innovative Audio with VTL and Sashas and Robin for example) were stuck in "SQUARE" rooms. No matter what you do, your goose is cooked I don't think the MBL room was anything to write home about either.

 

[Odyno]

Anyway, making a final judgement under show condition is a No No.....
But to be honnest It has been a long time since I had heard the Wilson speaker under show condition being enjoyable.

 

[lasercd]

Oh Ken forgot one other thing. There was a problem in the Scaena room that they didn't find out til later Someone had hit the button and the LPs were being played back via a Columbia EQ. Not a subtle difference when switched to a normal RIAA. Not sure why Columbia selected such a weird turnover, eq?

The Scaena room was a big disappointment. Partially because there was simply too much going on in the room. At one point an attendee obliviously decided to park himself in front of the left speaker while he checked out that odd (but interesting) looking turntable. The room was simply too big. It was almost as if the subs were not connected. I've been impressed by them in the past so I'm guessing it was the room itself.

With regards to the Innovative Audio room it was a bag full of hurt. I'm not much of a Wilson Audio fan but I've heard the Sashas sound much better than this. I actually found the MBL room to be a bit of a guilty pleasure. If you can spend the rest of your life listening to Patricia Barber, Diana Krall and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir this is the speaker for you. Unfortunately I can not. For once I wasn't being blown away with ear splitting volume and inappropriate music. They were very selective about the demo music they played so the strong points of the speakers were clearly demonstrated. Bass is not a real strong point of the 101s but there is something that they do that other speakers can't seem to replicate. I'm probably sounding overly harsh. I enjoyed my time in the MBL room but I didn't hear anything there that made me want to take a pick axe to my Rockports. I could say that about every room I think.

Some of the worst sound was the room that had Zellaton speakers. They were a big zero and extremely expensive. This was the second time I've heard Kaiser speakers. Gorgeous quality and the sound does absolutely nothing for me.

There was some good sound. Apart from the MBL room, I enjoyed the Sony room. I heard the SS-AR1 at CES 2 years ago. If it (and its new brother) came out under a different brand name it would get the attention it deserves. My friend Jeff Catalano always gets good sound. The Cessaro's are behemoths but they impressed me which is something I never thought I would say about a horn speaker. I think Jeff could have improved things a little bit with some sound treatment but overall it was the essence of pure analogue. Wes Bender's room was excellent. Second time I've heard Hansen speakers and liked them. Lloyd Walker's room with Burmester was very good as well. The $999 speakers from Sjofn HiFi really kicked ass. Really impressive for the money. Veloce had some nice sound coming out of the YG Kipod (as I mentioned previously - much better sound than the big YGs in the GTT room). Overall the best thing I heard all day was Stax electrostatic phones with a Woo tube headphone amp.

 

[MylesBAstor]

The Scaena room was a big disappointment. Partially because there was simply too much going on in the room. At one point an attendee obliviously decided to park himself in front of the left speaker while he checked out that odd (but interesting) looking turntable. The room was simply too big. It was almost as if the subs were not connected. I've been impressed by them in the past so I'm guessing it was the room itself.

Because of those ribbons, a person standing in front would have collapsed everything Was talking about that to Alan as a matter of fact on Sat.

With regards to the Innovative Audio room it was a bag full of hurt. I'm not much of a Wilson Audio fan but I've heard the Sashas sound much better than this.

Yes, square room Not a whole hell of a lot one can do plus the room was tiny. Sashas sound way better as heard in a couple of rooms at RMAF (esp. the Doshi).

I actually found the MBL room to be a bit of a guilty pleasure. If you can spend the rest of your life listening to Patricia Barber, Diana Krall and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir this is the speaker for you. Unfortunately I can not. For once I wasn't being blown away with ear splitting volume and inappropriate music. They were very selective about the demo music they played so the strong points of the speakers were clearly demonstrated. Bass is not a real strong point of the 101s but there is something that they do that other speakers can't seem to replicate. I'm probably sounding overly harsh. I enjoyed my time in the MBL room but I didn't hear anything there that made me want to take a pick axe to my Rockports. I could say that about every room I think.

Just can't warm up to the MBLs. I really gotta hear them with analog and tubes.

Some of the worst sound was the room that had Zellaton speakers. They were a big zero and extremely expensive. This was the second time I've heard Kaiser speakers. Gorgeous quality and the sound does absolutely nothing for me.

I've heard the Kaweros at RMAF and at their best (in other words, one year was good and the following not so good) with analog and Concert Fidelity gear, sounded really good. This model didn't do anything for me and $50K. Know they use Dueland caps but??????

There was some good sound. Apart from the MBL room, I enjoyed the Sony room. I heard the SS-AR1 at CES 2 years ago. If it (and its new brother) came out under a different brand name it would get the attention it deserves. My friend Jeff Catalano always gets good sound. The Cessaro's are behemoths but they impressed me which is something I never thought I would say about a horn speaker. I think Jeff could have improved things a little bit with some sound treatment but overall it was the essence of pure analogue.

Jeff's room was an example of the whole being better than the sum of the parts. Could have picked on a couple of things about the sound, but ultimately, enjoyed listening to Jeff's system. More resolution than one would think, in part due to the Ortofon.

Wes Bender's room was excellent. Second time I've heard Hansen speakers and liked them. Lloyd Walker's room with Burmester was very good as well. The $999 speakers from Sjofn HiFi really kicked ass. Really impressive for the money. Veloce had some nice sound coming out of the YG Kipod (as I mentioned previously - much better sound than the big YGs in the GTT room). Overall the best thing I heard all day was Stax electrostatic phones with a Woo tube headphone amp.

The look of the RP table made me insane. Was he trying to hypnotize the audience by staring at the turning platter?

 

[Odyno]

Anybody else warmed up to the Gradient in the Simplifi room?

 

[lasercd]

The look of the RP table made me insane. Was he trying to hypnotize the audience by staring at the turning platter?

Yeah - its a bit too much bling for my taste. Between the light bouncing off the chrome and the mylar tape it felt like the Manchurian Candidate.

 

[lasercd]

Anybody else warmed up to the Gradient in the Simplifi room?

Imaging was spooky...in a good way. I forgot to mention this room.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Anybody else warmed up to the Gradient in the Simplifi room?

I did. Impressively good sounding room/system, especially for the price.

 

[Soundproof]

Anybody else warmed up to the Gradient in the Simplifi room?

Which of their speakers were in use?

 

[Odyno]

When I went by, they were using the Revolution with subs and Bladelius gear.

 

[Soundproof]

When I went by, they were using the Revolution with subs and Bladelius gear.

Thanks.