Given the single-source parameter, if the volume control is good and driving impedance low or at least matches the power amp, I see no need for a preamp unless you want tone controls. Certainly all a preamp would do is add noise and distortion, though likely insignifcantly. That said, I can probably count on one hand the number of single-source systems I have seen through the years...
I have tried several times to avoid the active preamplifier - high quality passives, integrated amplifiers that had just a potentiometer at the input, digital sources having analog or digital volume and good driving capability, but never got a fully satisfactory result. IMHO, it is a key component in a system, as it conditionates the choice of the source and the amplifier.
I'm confused. If a preamp has no tone controls and the system's single source is providing impedance-matched output to the amplifier and volume control, what role does a preamp play at all? One may prefer the colorations that their preamp adds, but lets not confuse preference with playing a functional role, much less an essential one.
The only reason I can believe to have a preamp in this situation is for impedance optimization. There have been too many reports of superior sound when a preamp is used to ignore this.
I'm confused. If a preamp has no tone controls and the system's single source is providing impedance-matched output to the amplifier and volume control, what role does a preamp play at all? One may prefer the colorations that their preamp adds, but lets not confuse preference with playing a functional role, much less an essential one.Tim
Tim, in this scenario the preamp plays no functional role at all. As I stated: "do you think the preamp plays an essential role in obtaining maximum sonic performance from a system?"
I hear so many people say that the preamp is the heart of a system which I why I am interested in the query. I will not yet give my opinion or join in on the discussion as I do not want to bias hopefully further voters.
Tim, in this scenario the preamp plays no functional role at all. As I stated: "do you think the preamp plays an essential role in obtaining maximum sonic performance from a system?"
I hear so many people say that the preamp is the heart of a system which I why I am interested in the query. I will not yet give my opinion or join in on the discussion as I do not want to bias hopefully further voters.
I might actally might be able to shed some more (High rez ) light on it in the coming weeks , i am in the process of completeing a deal on a very interresting tube power amp which i believe has also a passive vol control , ill keep the cat and drive it with the cat also .
Its 2 times 8 watt , i think i might go see a docter
I'll share my experience for what it's worth. When i first bought a Manley Steelhead back in around 2006, I was disappointed with its sound- i rolled tubes (and ultimately settled on NOS Teles and some old Raytheons), but the phono stage, which had the capability of being run 'straight in' still didn't sound as good as I expected. Although the frequency extremes were well wrought and the unit had a non-tubular, seemingly accurate sound, it lacked life and a fleshed out quality. By adding a line stage (a Lamm L2, which is not exactly a 'warm' sounding preamp- some have complained that it is a little analytical sounding), the combination had far more palpability and dimension. I kept the Steelhead for a long time running through this line stage. Only when the Lamm line stage started to act up- and I was forced to use the Steelhead 'straight in' again temporarily, did I finally decide to move on and change the phono stage. Now, that may reveal something about the nature of the Steelhead, its active output/volume control set up, or just that I liked the 'added coloration' of two pieces of equipment, rather than one. (I am one of those few who runs only a single source- vinyl). I have an inexpensive passive volume control box that i have not tried with my new phono stage, and now that the Lamm has been fixed, i'm back to using two components in the chain before the amps.
The only reason I can believe to have a preamp in this situation is for impedance optimization. There have been too many reports of superior sound when a preamp is used to ignore this.
Lee,
Unhappily the impedance argument is not enough to justify the use of the preamplfier. A preamplifier has input impedance and output impedance. Which one are you addressing?
We have excellent preamplifiers that have input impedance as low as 5 kohm and as high as 1 Mohm (and designers who will say that only one value in this large range is the best!)
Considering output impedance, we must remember that most sources have output impedances equal or lower than the preamplifier they are driving.
I think that the main problem is that most of the time technically we do not know what we are optimizing ...
In my experience, adding a preamp increases the size of the soundstage, smooths out the sound, increases the resolution of details and gives a stronger sense of dimensionality of the performers in the soundstage. Chaining a second preamp in series with the first preamp will give an increase of the qualities just mentioned. There is an audiophile in Japan who uses six spectral DMC 30 SL linestages in series. I have not heard the system but I imagined how palpable the soundstage air might sound, how present and live the musicians might be in the room and how dimensional and detailed the sound might be.
The question for me is how good the output with variable volume control of the unit actually is. I have two digital units with volume controls, an EMMlabs stack and an Accuphase DP-78. In both cases, having a preamp sounded better in every aspect. Obviously this is just two out of a multitude so I'm keeping my mind open.
The question for me is how good the output with variable volume control of the unit actually is. I have two digital units with volume controls, an EMMlabs stack and an Accuphase DP-78. In both cases, having a preamp sounded better in every aspect. Obviously this is just two out of a multitude so I'm keeping my mind open.
So I assume, then, that when you put a pre in the chain behind those units, they used a different set of analog outputs, that by-passed their volume controls altogether?
I have never heard a passive device that didn't screw up dynamics.
And people need to hear a top preamp, not an entry level preamp/line stage vs. a passive unit on a revealing system. There's no doubt about the results.
So I assume, then, that when you put a pre in the chain behind those units, they used a different set of analog outputs, that by-passed their volume controls altogether?
The question for me is how good the output with variable volume control of the unit actually is. I have two digital units with volume controls, an EMMlabs stack and an Accuphase DP-78. In both cases, having a preamp sounded better in every aspect. Obviously this is just two out of a multitude so I'm keeping my mind open.
And of course the other question that must be asked along with this one is what is "good?" It should be very simple and demonstrable. I'm betting we won't be able to keep it that way.
