Pacific dac: Lampizator's new top of the line dac

[Anyoldears]

Do all of these tubes need (different?) adapters for the 6N6P position?

7AF7 needs an adapter AND a spacer cos the base is too big to go in the hole in the top (of mine anyway). E83f are dual like the c3gs, so yes, and the 5687 need an adapter too

 

[adamaley]

What is your favorite for that position?

It's very complicatedly flexible on my end. For absolute detail, it's a combination of Siemens C3G + Telefunken C3G(non-S version). This is a no musical nuance or detail left behind combo. Otherwise, simply 2 Siemens C3G is killer as well. However, for weight and tone but minus some inflective detail and harmonics, a rare, difficult to find Tungsram Labor Minta (Lab sample) E83F trumps all (Thanks @takacs75 ) This is a meat on bones, propulsive body, tonal delight buffet. Recently, I've found that mixing the Lab Sample E83F with a Sylvania Holland branded E83F brings back that detail and airiness making it my current favorite. The Sylvania might actually be a Philips Holland E83F based on studying the internal structure.

Disclaimer - yes, I mix different brands in one adapter. This flies in the face of advise I've been given by others that tubes should be well matched and of the same brand and model. The possibilities through mixing supersedes all else for me and has served me well thus far, and with no discernible channel sound imbalance.

Other tubes I've tried that fall short of the C3Gs and E83Fs mentioned above are:

Valvo, Tungsram Red and yellow E83Fs

EBC33 (tapered red, tapered grey, regular grey - all sounded different with the tapered red being my favorite)

National Union and Ken-Rad 2C22 ( Ken -Rad was my favorite - very detailed tubes but lacking body and dynamics).

 

[christoph]

Am I correct in thinking, that the following 6922/ECC88 group of tubes should work without an adapter in the 6N6P position of the Pacific?
6922, 6DJ8, Ecc88, E88CC, 6N1P, 6H1(pi), 6N23P, 6N6P, 6H6(pi), 6N30P and 6H30(pi).

The following 5687 group of tubes should work with an adapter to 6922/ECC88:
E182CC, ECC182, 7119, 5687 and 6900.

The following 12AU7 group of tubes should work with an adapter to 6922/ECC88:
12AU7, ECC82, ECC802, 12BH7, ECC99, ECC81, ECC180, 13D9 and 12AT7.

Should the 6SN7GT group of tubes also work with an adapter to 6922/ECC88:
6SN7GT, VT-231, 6H8C, 1578, 6N8S, CV181, ECC32 (and ECC31)?

I have these tubes out of the Horizon Manual but I think it should be applicable for the Pacific as well, if using the correct adapters.

I use the ECC182 with adapter in the Pacific atm with great results

Could someone please confirm (or deny) my train of thought here?

 

[Jagodak]

Getting back to P2 topic. First a look inside. A a big difference with P1 is new board with engine 11p including extra power trafo that has been installed under tubs udders . Raspberry card has been removed. All looking clean and nice, smells also interesting while burning. What I noticed so far. The pros: its different, the stage, vocals, details and finally, most of all the bass! getting out of each song a way more controlled. I can hear different divisions of the bass, being able to hear components that were not so distinguishable by my ear before. Some songs seems different, althouh I listened them for years... Vocals are incredible sharp and clean, plucking guitar string are super live. These are my personal feelings, that might be different with other setup and speakers.

Shall be noted that output signal voltage has changed to 350/700(PX4) mV RMS. Getting similar volume db level in my case needs some extra db that needs be added to get similar volume compare to P1. Great that there is a remote control to do it . Can be corrected with active speakers also, so not a problem.

Setup tested with active speakers. Tubes: KR PX4, 5u4g Eml mesh (with home made octal adapter based on copper wires just to rotate the tube 90 degrees to have the grid positioned towards listener), 6n6p double triode Nowosybirsk replaced with gold ECC99 JJ.

Some thoughts about recti…

Tested several tubes and… am I really getting better sound as the tube price increased?

3D = soundstage

Scale 1 min - 10 max ovearall satisfaction.

Eml 5u4g nice new production
Tight bass, vocals live, 3D good 8/10

RCA Jan VT nice except vocals, not natural, strange overall.. 5/10

AZ1 narrow mesh nice, its a 4v recti, overall nice presentation but not causing my jaw dropped 7/10

AZ1 big mesh way better compare to narrow mesh. Easy to listen, not getting me tired, overall great 8/10

AZ1 tungsram hmm, has someone put a blanket on the speakers? 3/10

5u4g Quad Audio, wow what a surprise, nice presentation, great bass and vocals, 3D good but not great. 7/10

Cv1863/5Z4GY Brimar omg what a tube, dynamic, detailed, perfect natural vocals, sometimes a bit slower. Overall 8,5/10

5R4GY CRC DD getter awesome what this reci can present. Very natural presentation, bass lighter, easy to listen 9/10

5R4GA Phillips very nice but not as good as Brimar but overall very good. 7/10

U52 MWT / GEC D getter keeper, perfect 3D, natural and warm sound, beautiful textures, perfect live vocals, bass super tight 10/10.

My conclusion:

5V/2A recifiers plays better compare to 5V/3A, excluding U52, seems like trafo is less tired, I don’t know…

So get yourself a nice CV1863 Brimar before someone will notice it too and lift the price up by x times…. Same with 1940’s 5R4GY CRC (RCA, Ken Rads or GE) must have 2xD getters(the best 45 degrees), awesome tubes.

Cheers

 

[adamaley]

Am I correct in thinking, that the following 6922/ECC88 group of tubes should work without an adapter in the 6N6P position of the Pacific?
6922, 6DJ8, Ecc88, E88CC, 6N1P, 6H1(pi), 6N23P, 6N6P, 6H6(pi), 6N30P and 6H30(pi).

The following 5687 group of tubes should work with an adapter to 6922/ECC88:
E182CC, ECC182, 7119, 5687 and 6900.

The following 12AU7 group of tubes should work with an adapter to 6922/ECC88:
12AU7, ECC82, ECC802, 12BH7, ECC99, ECC81, ECC180, 13D9 and 12AT7.

Should the 6SN7GT group of tubes also work with an adapter to 6922/ECC88:
6SN7GT, VT-231, 6H8C, 1578, 6N8S, CV181, ECC32 (and ECC31)?

I have these tubes out of the Horizon Manual but I think it should be applicable for the Pacific as well, if using the correct adapters.

I use the ECC182 with adapter in the Pacific atm with great results

Could someone please confirm (or deny) my train of thought here?

Besides the 12AU7 group, I can confirm through firsthand experience with the others and they all work.

 

[Sablon Audio]

I would imagine that both ecc40 and e80cc could work very well if anyone is brave enough to spend their money and time investigating.

 

[JSA]

Getting back to P2 topic. First a look inside. A a big difference with P1 is new board with engine 11p including extra power trafo that has been installed under tubs udders . Raspberry card has been removed. All looking clean and nice, smells also interesting while burning. What I noticed so far. The pros: its different, the stage, vocals, details and finally, most of all the bass! getting out of each song a way more controlled. I can hear different divisions of the bass, being able to hear components that were not so distinguishable by my ear before. Some songs seems different, althouh I listened them for years... Vocals are incredible sharp and clean, plucking guitar string are super live. These are my personal feelings, that might be different with other setup and speakers.

Shall be noted that output signal voltage has changed to 350/700(PX4) mV RMS. Getting similar volume db level in my case needs some extra db that needs be added to get similar volume compare to P1. Great that there is a remote control to do it . Can be corrected with active speakers also, so not a problem.

Setup tested with active speakers. Tubes: KR PX4, 5u4g Eml mesh (with home made octal adapter based on copper wires just to rotate the tube 90 degrees to have the grid positioned towards listener), 6n6p double triode Nowosybirsk replaced with gold ECC99 JJ.

Some thoughts about recti…

Tested several tubes and… am I really getting better sound as the tube price increased?

3D = soundstage

Scale 1 min - 10 max ovearall satisfaction.

Eml 5u4g nice new production
Tight bass, vocals live, 3D good 8/10

RCA Jan VT nice except vocals, not natural, strange overall.. 5/10

AZ1 narrow mesh nice, its a 4v recti, overall nice presentation but not causing my jaw dropped 7/10

AZ1 big mesh way better compare to narrow mesh. Easy to listen, not getting me tired, overall great 8/10

AZ1 tungsram hmm, has someone put a blanket on the speakers? 3/10

5u4g Quad Audio, wow what a surprise, nice presentation, great bass and vocals, 3D good but not great. 7/10

Cv1863/5Z4GY Brimar omg what a tube, dynamic, detailed, perfect natural vocals, sometimes a bit slower. Overall 8,5/10

5R4GY CRC DD getter awesome what this reci can present. Very natural presentation, bass lighter, easy to listen 9/10

5R4GA Phillips very nice but not as good as Brimar but overall very good. 7/10

U52 MWT / GEC D getter keeper, perfect 3D, natural and warm sound, beautiful textures, perfect live vocals, bass super tight 10/10.

My conclusion:

5V/2A recifiers plays better compare to 5V/3A, excluding U52, seems like trafo is less tired, I don’t know…

So get yourself a nice CV1863 Brimar before someone will notice it too and lift the price up by x times…. Same with 1940’s 5R4GY CRC (RCA, Ken Rads or GE) must have 2xD getters(the best 45 degrees), awesome tubes.

Cheers

Interesting...
So P2 is significantly better or just different to P1?

 

[JSA]

By the way, if anyone is interested I have few rectis and a pair of KR242RK to let go. Please take a look at classifieds.

 

[Jagodak]

Interesting...
So P2 is significantly better or just different to P1?

I think with new chip, board, trafo and the rest (called engine 11p) it is more musical, detailed and has better controlled bass. P1 is also brilliant dac, so both are really really great.
Cheers

 

[christoph]

Besides the 12AU7 group, I can confirm through firsthand experience with the others and they all work.

Thank you so much

Is there a reason why you skipped on the 12AU7 group?

No stock or are the values too different for your comfort to try?

 

[christoph]

By the way, if anyone is interested I have few rectis and a pair of KR242RK to let go. Please take a look at classifieds.

Which triode dethroned your RK 242?

 

[JSA]

Which triode dethroned your RK 242?

I still use KR242. I prefer that over KR242RK, hence I am selling my pair of KR242RK.

 

[adamaley]

Thank you so much

Is there a reason why you skipped on the 12AU7 group?

No stock or are the values too different for your comfort to try?

After trying out the 5687 group and then moving on to the bigger bottles starting with 6SN7s and noticing the improvements, subliminally, I had no urge to try anymore small bottles. This is not to say they may not be better.

 

[christoph]

Besides the 12AU7 group, I can confirm through firsthand experience with the others and they all work.

How were your findings with 6922/ECC88/E88CC that don't need adapters?
I'm a big fan of holland tubes, any experiences?

 

[adamaley]

I only tried one other 6N6P in that group of tubes but it didn't really move the needle. 5687 TungSol is what made me sit up and realize a huge delta existed with the driver tube. From there, it was 6SN7s/7N7s, and the rest is history

 

[keithc]

@Jagodak:

 

[Rooneydog]

I will jump in…usually just stay on sideline. I have a large stash of tubes that I have assembled over the last 35 years. I have tried 5687, 7119, 6sn7, 6922, and 6dj8‘s. All nos and from many different manufacturers. my experience is that 6sn7‘s aren’t good for the pacific. Big sound but sounds almost out of phase. Tunsol and Raytheon 5687 were ok but not any better than 6n6. Amperex PQ 7119 are a small step up. My 6922’s and especially my 6dj8’s give me the best results. Amperex Holand 6dj8 are what I have stayed with for now. Super good tone top to bottom. Clear and open. Not surprising as historically these are some of the very best tubes for audio. Many of the exotic tubes folks are trying were never meant for audio. Btw the current recti is Miniwatt Dario GZ32. Power tubes are Western electric 300b‘s. Overall this combo is totally satisfying. ymmv
James

 

[bozebuttons]

I will jump in…usually just stay on sideline. I have a large stash of tubes that I have assembled over the last 35 years. I have tried 5687, 7119, 6sn7, 6922, and 6dj8‘s. All nos and from many different manufacturers. my experience is that 6sn7‘s aren’t good for the pacific. Big sound but sounds almost out of phase. Tunsol and Raytheon 5687 were ok but not any better than 6n6. Amperex PQ 7119 are a small step up. My 6922’s and especially my 6dj8’s give me the best results. Amperex Holand 6dj8 are what I have stayed with for now. Super good tone top to bottom. Clear and open. Not surprising as historically these are some of the very best tubes for audio. Many of the exotic tubes folks are trying were never meant for audio. Btw the current recti is Miniwatt Dario GZ32. Power tubes are Western electric 300b‘s. Overall this combo is totally satisfying. ymmv
James

I have a pair of amperes holland made pinch waist 6922 tubes Can I just drop these in without adapters in place of the 5n5s

 

[Rooneydog]

I just ordered the 12au7 adapter. I have dozens of them to experiment with next.

I have a pair of amperes holland made pinch waist 6922 tubes Can I just drop these in without adapters in place of the 5n5s

Yes. 6922 are drop in just like 6dj8’s are for the 6n6 tube position. No adapter required. 6922 is a beefed up version of the 6dj8.
adapter comment: I prefer none if possible. One or more less variables to be concerned with.

 

[Blake]

My 6922’s and especially my 6dj8’s give me the best results. Amperex Holand 6dj8 are what I have stayed with for now. Super good tone top to bottom. Clear and open. Not surprising as historically these are some of the very best tubes for audio. Many of the exotic tubes folks are trying were never meant for audio. Btw the current recti is Miniwatt Dario GZ32. Power tubes are Western electric 300b‘s. Overall this combo is totally satisfying. ymmv
James

That reminds me, I have some killer Amperex sitting in a drawer as I sold the amp which used the 6922/6DJ8.

After comparing many types of this tube in my former amps, I settled on Amperex 6DJ8, Orange globe logo, Holland (shield, steel pins,) and Amperex 6922, PQ, white label, US (shield, gold pins) (my favorite), late 1950's early 1960's. I'll have to give them a try out in my Pacific.

I know some of the exotic tubes mentioned here were not designed with audio in mind, but they are incredible nonetheless (PT14, E83f and C3g).

EDIT: I would have loved to give the Amperex pinch waist a try out, but could never source them when I was in the market.