Phantom Supreme/Raven Two/Benz LP/ and Limited VTA Adjustment

Grooves

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2012
152
0
323
Pacific Northwest
Recently I added a Phantom Supreme to my Raven Two. The Phantom replaced my Graham 2.2 as the primary arm, and the G-2.2 is now on the back side. Initally, the Raven-2 and Graham 2.2 had a similar issue where the arm height forced me to exist in the lower, l.0-2.0 VTA range. The Phantom is even worse in this regard. Even at 1.0 the buble level is past the right red marking and I am unable to level the gauge/cartridge. Though I am complete 2-turns of the VTA dial above this, (final setting yet to be determined) I find it a bit disconcerting that I can't at least start from a "level" position since my final setting may be lower than obtainable.

So, I see three choices, a modified armboard or armboard pillar, both potentially costly. The third option is to add an insert between the Benz and the headshell allowing me to raise the VTA and gain a greater range of adjustment.

Any other Raven-1 or 2 owners share a similar tale of woe? Any suggestions for a spacer or solution?

On the bright side I'm kicking myself for waiting so long to add the Phantom! A huge improvement! WOW!
 

audioarcher

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2012
1,396
51
970
Seattle area
If you have a TT mat handy that will raise the height of the platter some. If you happen to like the sound with a mat better then that is one solution. If not then it should at least tell you if the extra height is needed with your cartridge. The best solution would be a shorter arm pillar. I don't think you would want a thinner arm board. Your cartridge shim idea will work as well but it may change the sound as well. I'm not a Raven owner but that's my 2 cents.
 

pcosta

Well-Known Member
Jul 25, 2010
364
123
950
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Recently I added a Phantom Supreme to my Raven Two. The Phantom replaced my Graham 2.2 as the primary arm, and the G-2.2 is now on the back side. Initally, the Raven-2 and Graham 2.2 had a similar issue where the arm height forced me to exist in the lower, l.0-2.0 VTA range. The Phantom is even worse in this regard. Even at 1.0 the buble level is past the right red marking and I am unable to level the gauge/cartridge. Though I am complete 2-turns of the VTA dial above this, (final setting yet to be determined) I find it a bit disconcerting that I can't at least start from a "level" position since my final setting may be lower than obtainable.

So, I see three choices, a modified armboard or armboard pillar, both potentially costly. The third option is to add an insert between the Benz and the headshell allowing me to raise the VTA and gain a greater range of adjustment.

Any other Raven-1 or 2 owners share a similar tale of woe? Any suggestions for a spacer or solution?

On the bright side I'm kicking myself for waiting so long to add the Phantom! A huge improvement! WOW!

You need a spacer for the armboard. You can probably get a giant flat washer to put under the armboard, or something similar for the time being to raise up the arm. TW makes spacers for mt TW AC and I have read about your issue before on the smaller Raven's. As for using the spacer at the end of the arm you must be careful. You could dramatically alter the effective mass of your Phantom for the bad, but you could try that too, it may work out depending on the cartridges compliance.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
Actually, I do have a mat but did not consider it since I preferred the sound w/o the mat, (and therefore forgot about it!). But it would allow me to at least experiment. I have a email out to Bob Graham since he had used a TW Acustic at one time I'm hoping he can give me an idea.

I would say the spacer under the arm mount would be your best bet short of buying a new arm board configured for the Graham.
 

Grooves

Well-Known Member
Feb 29, 2012
152
0
323
Pacific Northwest
Audioarcher,
Thanks for the reminder re: the mat. I had one staring me in the face but since I had decided I liked the sound better w/o it I forgot about it. But, your point about using it to see if I need to actually lower the VTA further is a good one. I have an email out to Bob Graham to see what he has to say. He supposedly used a Raven 1 or 2 for a bit.




You can probably get a giant flat washer to put under the armboard, or something similar for the time being to raise up the arm. TW makes spacers for mt TW AC and I have read about your issue before on the smaller Raven's. As for using the spacer at the end of the arm you must be careful. You could dramatically alter the effective mass of your Phantom for the bad, but you could try that too, it may work out depending on the cartridges compliance.[/QUOTE]

You need a spacer for the armboard.
pcosta,
Actually, I need to lower the arm or armboard so I can raise the VTA. I'm at the bottom limit of the VTA now and the arm is still too elevated. Raising the arm/armboard makes matters worse since I will need to lower the VTA even more, which I can't. The bubble level is too high towards the rear (right). I'm guessing the issue with the Raven AC's is/was because the platter height is greater in relation to the arm height vs. the Raven 1-2's where the arm height is too high in relation to the platter, at least for me.
 
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JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
I might have some original Graham cart/wand spacers lying around. Black ovals with the elastomer blue dot on one side. You can have one if you like (for free, just buy me a beer if we ever run into each other someday). Just PM me your delivery address and I'll send it by snail mail. You will need long screws to use them but I don't have any of those. Just let me know.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
All the carts I use on the Phantom now are tall. The short ones are on other arms. I got the spacers from Bob some years back because I had the same problem with my AC-3 and a short cart. No problems with the L or II L wands as the spacers are very light albeit all my carts are medium compliance. Now all I have to do is find the spacers. I have a pretty good idea of where they are. It's really no biggie Bob. ;)
 

The Phantom

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2012
60
5
248
arm height on rave

All the carts I use on the Phantom now are tall. The short ones are on other arms. I got the spacers from Bob some years back because I had the same problem with my AC-3 and a short cart. No problems with the L or II L wands as the spacers are very light albeit all my carts are medium compliance. Now all I have to do is find the spacers. I have a pretty good idea of where they are. It's really no biggie Bob. ;)

I just noticed this thread, and for any who are following this still, I have a Raven myself (before the Air Force days...) and it's a great turntable... The VTA adjustments in my tonearams has always been somewhat constrained by the various mechanical parts needed for this design, and in any event, I gauged the VTA range by a reasonable 1-3/8 to 1-1/2 inch minimum spacing between the record surface and the armbase mount. Unfortunately, there is no "standard" on these things anymore, so various turntable designers (and arms, too) go off on their merry way, with nary a thought to compatibility. Sometimes, I have thought this was by design, so that the turntable's own arm (if one is made) would be the default choice for the purchaser... Oh, well..

Not so much the case with the TW-Acustic, as they make a very nice arm mount tailored for our "Custom Mount" circular pattern. But I did discover things were much easier if I machined off about 1/2-inch from the stainless mounting pod, and that's where mine is now.

Happily, the designers of the TechDAS Air Force 'tables, using the Phantom as a cornerstone design, and following also the SME mounting profile to a large degree, built in just the right amount of VTA range. So any of the Graham arms are very much adjustabale on those turntables, and give fine peraformance in all areas. :D:D

Happy trails - Bob Graham (aka The Phantom)
 

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