Phasemation with EAR MC4 Sucks?

[kiwibirch]

I have just received an EAR MC4 and compared to my Cinemag 1254 based SUT its not sounding very good.
The Unit is used. I've tried the 3ohm 6ohm and 12ohm. 3 and 6 ohm sound compressed and lifeless.
The 12 ohm input sounds more alive but not has good as the Cinemag.

The ratio's are 1:30, 1:24, 1:18 and 1:10. I'm using a phasemation pp-200 cart with 4ohm internal impedance.
The Cinemag sounds awesome at the 1:20 setting which matches Phasemations own SUT's that use 1:20.

Phono stage is Ifono3 black label set to 36db gain.

1:20 gives a loading of 118ohm. 1:30 and 1:24 give loadings below 100ohm. I beleive my cart is recommened to see a load of 100ohm
or greater so that explains why 1:30 and 1:24 don't sound right......

However i have read reviews where people have used Phasemation on the 1:30 and 1:24 with EAR MC4 and describe great sound ?!?!...

Does anyone have experience with the EAR SUT's with Phasemation carts? Could this be burn-in related?
If the previous owner never used say the 1:30 3ohm or 1:24 6ohm setting could it just need some running in time? or
am i just looking at a synergy problem where the SUT doesn't really go with this Cart?

Any advice greatefully received.

 

[Petrat]

Most EAR phono-stages have an mm gain of around 50dB iirc, so suggest you increase your iFi gain to 48dB and use the MC4 on the 12 ohm (18x) taps. I suspect the 3 and 6 ohm (30x and 24x) settings may load down the Phasemation a bit too much and possibly constrain dynamics? I owned an EAR MC4, and you are correct, ime each tap needed to be 'run in'.

 

[kiwibirch]

You're assumption gels with mine regarding the 3(30x) and 6 (24x) that would produce a load
on the cart of 52 and 81 ohm respectively. So this is probably constraining the cart too much
vs the >100 recommended. I would have though 81 being close would have sounded ok....

The 12ohm 1:18 sounded the best but sounded bad in comparison to the MUCH cheaper ned clayton cinemag 12xx SUT 1:20.... Not even close.

The cart is 0.3mv output, 30x is 9mv and 24 is 7.2mv so i would expect the phono stage or my leben CS300xs linestage to have enough headroom to cope with those levels.

I guess i'll try and run-in the 12 Ohm tap. Transients seem a bit slow and rounded with the 12
but not as lifeless as the 3 and 6 ohm detail seems off as well.

Its weird though as this reviewer was using a phasemation 4ohm 0.3mv output Cart
and loved it (same specs as mine). https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2024/4/24/ear-mc4-cartridge-step-up-transformer

I guess i'll put this down to experience and have to move it on if things don't improve quickly.

 

[Shuggie]

You're assumption gels with mine regarding the 3(30x) and 6 (24x) that would produce a load
on the cart of 52 and 81 ohm respectively. So this is probably constraining the cart too much
vs the >100 recommended. I would have though 81 being close would have sounded ok....

The 12ohm 1:18 sounded the best but sounded bad in comparison to the MUCH cheaper ned clayton cinemag 12xx SUT 1:20.... Not even close.

The cart is 0.3mv output, 30x is 9mv and 24 is 7.2mv so i would expect the phono stage or my leben CS300xs linestage to have enough headroom to cope with those levels.

I guess i'll try and run-in the 12 Ohm tap. Transients seem a bit slow and rounded with the 12
but not as lifeless as the 3 and 6 ohm detail seems off as well.

Its weird though as this reviewer was using a phasemation 4ohm 0.3mv output Cart
and loved it (same specs as mine). https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2024/4/24/ear-mc4-cartridge-step-up-transformer

I guess i'll put this down to experience and have to move it on if things don't improve quickly.

Weird also that the reviewer thought his Phasemation EA-350 phono amplifier has a solid state MC gain circuit, when in fact it has Phasemation's own 1:20 gain internal SUTs for MC!

 

[kiwibirch]

The 1:18 (12 ohm tap) is 0.3mv x 18 = 5.4mv and 25db + 36 db (phono) = 61db total gain which is plenty.
The load impendence is about 145ohms.
So this setting is the closest to perfect i can get from an MC4. I don't get it though
why is the sound so mediocre compared to the Cinemag 1254?...
I can only think that the 12 ohm tap needs to be run-in or the Cinemag is just a better overall
match.......
Strange when some koetsu users with (5ohm internal impedance) love the MC4 even above Koetsu's own SUT.

 

[Juiced]

Hi @kiwibirch,

Did you try different cables?

I use a Ear 88pb phono that i think have a MC4 built into it, a ZYX U-EX100 cartridge and SME 3012r tonearm.

With a 'Kondo LS-4' cable, the sound lacks focus, smudged and not engaging.
Clearly the cable is a bad match for the cart like their to much resistance or something.

With an extremely cheaper 'VDH The Isis' cable, although it lacks the nuances and smoothness of silver, the sound is dynamic, punchy and much more balanced.

 

[kiwibirch]

Hi @kiwibirch,

Did you try different cables?

I use a Ear 88pb phono that i think have a MC4 built into it, a ZYX U-EX100 cartridge and SME 3012r tonearm.

With a 'Kondo LS-4' cable, the sound lacks focus, smudged and not engaging.
Clearly the cable is a bad match for the cart like their to much resistance or something.

With an extremely cheaper 'VDH The Isis' cable, although it lacks the nuances and smoothness of silver, the sound is dynamic, punchy and much more balanced.

No, thats a good point i will buy another cable and try it. However the current cable works fine with the cinemags...

 

[DasguteOhr]

How did you set the ifi? Tried both: 36db or 45db gain +47kiloohm 100pf riaa curve

 

[kiwibirch]

How did you set the ifi? Tried both: 36db or 45db gain +47kiloohm 100pf riaa curve

Tried the 36db as with the 1:18 i'm getting 25db so 62db. 47k 100pf ERIAA

 

[DasguteOhr]

Tried the 36db as with the 1:18 i'm getting 25db so 62db. 47k 100pf ERIAA

From experience I can tell you that cartridges sometimes need more amplification than is mathematically necessary. Nothing can break it, the ifi is overload-resistant enough. Just try it out.

 

[kiwibirch]

Sure will try it, when i get home on Friday. On summer holidays atmo

 

[Balle Clorin]

Maybe it has been tested with a DC multimeter and become magnetized? Or hit hard , altering the magnetic properties of the core. Just a speculation ..

How does the MC input on the RIAA sound ?

 

[kiwibirch]

MC input is fine not as detailed and dynamic as the MM with the cinemag SUT. Im hoping its just the 12 ohm 1:18 input needs running-in

 

[Balle Clorin]

The only way to “run in “ a SUT is to demagnetise it.. but music signals are to weak to saturate the core so nothing happens with music:.. If anything runs in it is the listeners ears getting a accustomed to the sound

 

[Shuggie]

Perfectly possible to "run in" a SUT using an inexpensive Hagerman FryBaby or similar, running line level signal into the primary coils and loading the secondaries into a 47k dummy load, for something like 3-5 days. I do this all the time here and the improvement in resolution, tone, dynamics etc is always very clear over a new, out of the box, SUT, rather like cables benefit from the same process. If a customer is not in a tearing hurry to receive their new SUT, I always offer to run it in for them.

Incidentally, Phasemation's DG-100 DeGausser is extremely effective when used, as directed, to degauss SUTs, leading to an immediate 'relaxation' of the sound character combined with simply better musical resolution.

 

[kiwibirch]

I'm home and have been playing some records today and its starting to open up so thats promising.
Will look into the DG-100 Also thanks for the heads up on that.
Will also check out the Frybaby and see if i can track anything down locally (which i highly doubt)

 

[DasguteOhr]

A break-in period is a must for good transformers. The cores must first magnetize properly, and this takes a long time with the low signal voltages of MC systems.
Please do not use a DMM or other equipment to measure the transformer if you want to enjoy music straight away. That is not possible. The cores are extremely sensitive and react to the slightest direct current with remagnetization and core saturation. The transformer sounds terrible after such a procedure and needs at least three hours of break-in time to reach the usual high level again.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Perfectly possible to "run in" a SUT using an inexpensive Hagerman FryBaby or similar, running line level signal into the primary coils and loading the secondaries into a 47k dummy load, for something like 3-5 days. I do this all the time here and the improvement in resolution, tone, dynamics etc is always very clear over a new, out of the box, SUT, rather like cables benefit from the same process. If a customer is not in a tearing hurry to receive their new SUT, I always offer to run it in for them.

Incidentally, Phasemation's DG-100 DeGausser is extremely effective when used, as directed, to degauss SUTs, leading to an immediate 'relaxation' of the sound character combined with simply better musical resolution.

I found a method got from Rothwell or was it David Slagle?
Run a 30hz sinus at a level that saturates the core- sinus becomes badly distorted on oscilloscope- reduce level slowly ( exponentially) . Takes less than 1 minute to to. Signal can be to secondary or primary be a ware if the level.
The Phasemation degausser use this method with 0.7VAC into the the primary at 400hz I seem to remember. 0.7V was not enough to saturate/degauss my Ortofon T-5. I had to go above 3volts to saturate the core and degauss. Did little to the frequency response and distortion, but I could measure some effect on phase shift at the top end. Not sure the effect was real..

To bad I cannot remember if I sent the voltage to the primary or secondary side. But saturation was happening at 2V rms AC 30hz.

Edit: found som earlier data..
My Sony HA T10 takes 160mV in on primary with secondary 1Mohm load to saturation, and survives , 3.2V out. Not sure I want to try that and risk to burn out my Denon

 

[Balle Clorin]

Perfectly possible to "run in" a SUT using an inexpensive Hagerman FryBaby or similar, running line level signal into the primary coils and loading the secondaries into a 47k dummy load, for something like 3-5 days. I do this all the time here and the improvement in resolution, tone, dynamics etc is always very clear over a new, out of the box, SUT, rather like cables benefit from the same process. If a customer is not in a tearing hurry to receive their new SUT, I always offer to run it in for them.

Incidentally, Phasemation's DG-100 DeGausser is extremely effective when used, as directed, to degauss SUTs, leading to an immediate 'relaxation' of the sound character combined with simply better musical resolution.

I made a wav file to do the same as DG-100
A 3db reduction in level every 1.38 second

I have to find a new host for my file . Use a level similar to Phasemation 0.7VAC RMS. Max Signal is - 9db in file . Theoretical 0.7V of 2V max signal..what it gives in your systems I cannot say. Phasemation use 440hz


The effect did not impress me , maybe I did not do it right, or my SUT was not magnetized

EDIT: file available upon request in PM

 

[kiwibirch]

Just thought i'd add a little update. I've been playing records for the last 4 days and without one single change to the original setup things are sounding dramatically better. The sound has become more focused, and much higher resolution. The detail packed in the grooves of a well recorded and pressed LP is staggering.
The MC4 has really opened up and i'm so glad i took the plunge after my experience with enchanced detail and dynamics with the Cinemag based SUT. I'm noticing a different dimenson to almost every record i play, the macro dynamics and slam are amazing but its the little details in the mix that were buried before that are so fun to listen to. This isn't placebo or expectation bias it's really night and day different from day 1 when i thought i'd bought a lemon and couldn't figure out why things were sounding so off base.
A good quality SUT is definetely the way to go for sure...