OK, so not like for like. No I agree, XLR costs more to build, considerably more, but that misses the point raised. It is not the technology that determines SQ, it is implementation.
Preamp shoot-out
- Thread starter flyer
- Start date
OK guys, I hand in my arms on this one
You all actually got me curious again about the validity of my conclusion on SE/balanced. The explanation of audioexplorations makes sense, as does the explanation of Steve Williams.
I do have some Cardas converters to be able to connect an XLR cable to an RCA in- and output. This is the way I tested the Lamm L2. No doubt such connectors lead to a loss of signal quality.
Hence, I wll reassess this when I am enabled to make some direct comparisons as all my cables now are with XLR termination. Meanwhile, I do hope the test report may be useful to the wider community although it is nothing more than a one-person's view. If I were to look at evaluations of others only, my system would be looking very different i guess.
cheers.
OK guys, I hand in my arms on this one
You all actually got me curious again about the validity of my conclusion on SE/balanced. The explanation of audioexplorations makes sense, as does the explanation of Steve Williams.
I do have some Cardas converters to be able to connect an XLR cable to an RCA in- and output. This is the way I tested the Lamm L2. No doubt such connectors lead to a loss of signal quality.
Hence, I wll reassess this when I am enabled to make some direct comparisons as all my cables now are with XLR termination. Meanwhile, I do hope the test report may be useful to the wider community although it is nothing more than a one-person's view. If I were to look at evaluations of others only, my system would be looking very different i guess.
cheers.
Get rid of Cardas as soon as possible. Call Mike Cullen at Cullen Cables
OK guys, I hand in my arms on this one
You all actually got me curious again about the validity of my conclusion on SE/balanced. The explanation of audioexplorations makes sense, as does the explanation of Steve Williams.
I do have some Cardas converters to be able to connect an XLR cable to an RCA in- and output. This is the way I tested the Lamm L2. No doubt such connectors lead to a loss of signal quality.
Hence, I wll reassess this when I am enabled to make some direct comparisons as all my cables now are with XLR termination. Meanwhile, I do hope the test report may be useful to the wider community although it is nothing more than a one-person's view. If I were to look at evaluations of others only, my system would be looking very different i guess.
cheers.
I have the cardas xlr to rca adaptors. They are not transparent. They soften the sound too much. I find $6 radio shack type adaptors have better transparency..
Same experience. If I needed to go XLR to RCA, I'd take a long hard look at Steve McCormack's Interocitor. Otherwise, I'd just use the RCA outputs. Don't know of too many manufacturers that don't pay at least as much attention to their SE outputs as their balanced.
Flyer if you like the zanden , you should try also this one some time as its not on the shoot out list, this is also a very special pre amp , Cat legend .
Incredible natural presentation , and it sounds very precise /powerfull and energetic , it never stops to surprise.
Mine not for phono though to noisy , although the later legends have a built in step up so i dont know about them
_DSC0005 by andromeda61, on Flickr
Incredible natural presentation , and it sounds very precise /powerfull and energetic , it never stops to surprise.
Mine not for phono though to noisy , although the later legends have a built in step up so i dont know about them
_DSC0005 by andromeda61, on Flickr
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The reason one would want to use XLRs is that they indeed perform better, regardless of length. The idea behind the balanced system is to obviate the effect of the cable; in essence if this is true then length does not matter. Another way of looking at this is if you can change the cable and change the sound, then you have a problem.
However as we have seen in this thread many high end audio manufacturers only offer lip service to balanced operation. If you are operating the cable single-ended as in the case of the Lamm there is no advantage at all. Further, a good number of manufacturers offer 'balanced' product but that product does not actually support the balanced standard. For this reason a lot of the myth in the above quote is quite widespread.
For example the signal does not 'carried twice within the cable', what should be happening is that the non-inverted signal should only exist with respect to the inverted version, neither aspect having anything to do with ground (IOW one needs the other to complete the circuit). If this is true then the signal is one 'carried once', so to speak. If the ground is involved then the construction of the cable starts to make a bigger difference in the sound, and that is not supposed to happen with balanced operation.
So the bottom line is that if balanced operation is done right, it indeed is more detailed and lower noise than single-ended. You would think that audiophiles would jump at the idea that they don't have to have expensive cables to make things work, but IME it seems that the Veblen Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good) rules the roost.
That kind of comment & false assumption is just that, and how t h can I find something too revealing?
I've heard many truly excellent balanced systems ... but that said, I still prefer SE as per my system choice. And trust me, I'm not the only one ... UHF magazine still prefer SE to balanced for their reference system.
tb1
I would run the entire test again wearing blindfolds/having someone else do the switching.
The blind test is the gold standard in all scientific testing and research.
Why should this be different?
As you approach the pinnacle of quality, they should all begin to sound the same. "A wire with gain."
The blind test is the gold standard in all scientific testing and research.
Why should this be different?
As you approach the pinnacle of quality, they should all begin to sound the same. "A wire with gain."
Because you don't just apply the same scientific methodology to all situations willy nilly? I find it interesting that people blindly want to apply DBT when the science behind the testing is totally ignored.
I don't understand why applying blind tests is willy-nilly. If you want to find what sounds best to you, listen with your ears, not your eyes.
Have someone play the components for you. Why do you need to know what manufacturer you are listening to if the idea is to pick what sounds best to your ears? People here have said they can pick out a component 10 times out of 10. If that is the case, you don't need to see what you are listening to if the intent is to satisfy your ears.
Have someone play the components for you. Why do you need to know what manufacturer you are listening to if the idea is to pick what sounds best to your ears? People here have said they can pick out a component 10 times out of 10. If that is the case, you don't need to see what you are listening to if the intent is to satisfy your ears.
Gary,
Just wearing blindfolds/having someone else do the switching for a few tests is not enough to determine with sounds best to you in real life. It determines which sounded better in this moment. Absence of knowledge is not enough to be sure you are making a valid test.
Every time I have asked for the full details and methodology that has been used to carry a blind test and the results analysis I never got an answer. Just vague suggestions to use friends. IMHO, it would be great if we could receive only black boxes without knowing what is manufacturer, specification or price. It would be the proper way to choose, with plenty of time. But it is not practical and no one does it.
Anyone see chefs on TV take a taste test with a blindfold and headphones to block out sound? It's amazing how many of them fail miserably at picking out common foods and identifying them correctly. I personally believe that you need to live with and listen to components for awhile in order to make meaningful judgements with regards to which one is *best.* Unless of course that one device is so far superior to the other that it's laughable. I for one would not want to spend my money on buying a component strictly based on a six gun double blind shoot out. I truly think you need to live with a component for a period of time before you can make meaningful judgements of where it stands in your pecking order.
I had Patrick Cullen make me custom interconnects XLR to RCA. Works great than any adapter.
