Problem with powercable running on or along hard walls?

jeffreybehr

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Dec 16, 2018
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While reading comments about audioquest's Fog Lifter cable lifters, one writer observed that powercables running ON or against walls causes the same negative effects on the music as laying them on carpeting.. I had never heard that before.

Anyone experience such a thing? and hence NOT run their powercords against walls?
 

Kingrex

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Feb 3, 2019
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I think the issue with carpet is static.
Possible a hardwood floor could induce vibration.
The wall as an issue?????? Is there any context from where you heard it as to why it may be an issue?
And what does on mean?
 

Cellcbern

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Jul 30, 2015
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I think the issue with carpet is static.
Possible a hardwood floor could induce vibration.
The wall as an issue?????? Is there any context from where you heard it as to why it may be an issue?
And what does on mean?
According to Audioquest the problem is proximity, which is why the Fog Lifters are taller than many cable lifts. More specifically, they say that when a cable is on or too near a surface that surface stores and releases energy from the cable back into it becoming, effectively, part of the cable's dielectric.
 

Kingrex

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I don't see it. Not unless the material it was next to could block,influence the electron halo around the wire. Magnetic streel or other wires can do this. So can static electricity. External forces such as RF could do it. Physical vibration might be able to. At least physical vibration impacts a crossover, but that is more than just wire.

I don't know. Everything is made up of atom's. Atom's have a neutron, proton and electrons. So yes, on some very fundamental level, the atoms in drywall and wood studs might collide with the electron halo in a wire. I don't know how you would fully prove this.

My personal observation is cable management behind a rack is more important. I see cables lying all over each other. In many systems that has had a very audible affect. If placing wires on a wall somehow maintains space between conductors, my belief is that the reduction in interactions between conductors far outweighs the influence possible dialectic interactions of wallboard would have.

I am actually curious why so few rack manufacturer have come up with a way to have posts/support extend from the columns of their racks to support wires and maintain spacing between conductors. Not only would that help reduce interference, it would also reduce stress on connection points.
 
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MarkusBarkus

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am actually curious why so few rack manufacturer have come up with a way to have posts/support extend from the columns of their racks to support wires and maintain spacing between conductors. Not only would that help reduce interference, it would also reduce stress on connection points.
...it's weird, isn't it? It blows my mind to see great components and a rat-nest in back. I think it is also best practice to support cables such that they are not pulling on fixtures.

I have a couple of those "plastic" sleeves on the male IEC plugs to make a secure connection fixture-to-fixture. They cost maybe 25 cents each. The result is a firm, secure connection.

I also built a small hanging "rack" to drape my power cables in a path that both separates them and reduces stress. Without having oodles of open space behind gear, I don't know how else to stay sorted back there.

This is an older pic; I actually have it better sorted at the moment, but am away and cannot get a better pic. Most of them are now hanging from that rack, rather than draped over.
 

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Alrainbow

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A few simple things to consider and do are :
Any power conducting wires should not be laying in close proximity to each other side to side or top to bottom and if one has to cross make the crossing at 90 angles to have the least effect .
Each power cable radiates emi
To have them next to each other may effect both cables

Next any signal cables should not cross over above or under any power supplies , nor power cables

I feel cable lifters keep the cables away from what maybe in the floor ie duct work , power feeders
Even metalized insulation . Radient floor heat may have metal channels to reflect the heat
Walls may also have all of the above inside as well. I laughed not at the thought but at how far we go to hopefully improve our systems.

Behind any rack is perhaps not as important do to short distances.
But i agree its still needed .

Cable management is real and needed , now how we accomplish this can be debated .

Emi has a short distance of radiation so power cables produce the most after transfomers but also in tiny amounts .
You can google emi on conductors to get a better idea of distance

Now what little is posted of is the effects on tubes . To me they can be very effected by emi and rfi
Ralph im sure can really help us all here on tubes. The effect is i feel proportional to gain . So a phono pre is worst then a preamp . Amps i think far less.

Ps kingrex knows plenty on this and does real world measurementscto prove things
 

Kingrex

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I started a new thread on Show Us Your Cable Management System. I am curios what people are doing, such as Marcus. Seems a better place to discuss the topic. Whether wood and wallboard impact a power of signal cable is a whole other thought.

As Al said, there is more in a floor and wall than you might think.
And how close wires are in proximity to each other. I think Al has a good point that power cables can cross at 90*. But a signal cable should always maintain at least 3 to 4 inches from a power cable in any direction. I would say is is especially important with a SUT.

It might actually be interesting to ask Paul McGowan of PS Audio and see if he would do a YouTube on dielectric influence of the wall/floor to a cable. Power of Signal. If it affects the power, why not the signal. I know the size of the EMF field has some proportion to voltage and current. But signal is more sensitive.
Ralph probably has a better idea than most all us too.
 
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