QSA - Lanedri and the Audiophile Version of the Philosophers’ Stone

[highstream]

Great questions. I don't have the answers to them. However, I do have some speculation / hypotheses.

Fuses are simply electrical wires that melt when too much current flow through them. Sometimes they're filled / surrounded by piezoelectric materials (quartz, carbon / charcoal, etc.) that filter high frequency noise riding on the AC and "condition" the electricity flowing into them. The fuse wire could clearly go through the QSA process. I wouldn't be surprised if the QSA Silver fuse is simply silver wire that is QSA treated with some additional materials that filter / condition the electricity.

There probably is an "optimal" time under treatment, variations in materials used, geometry, and other factors that result in all the different QSA products sold.

I thought someone knowledgeable said that silver and (the prospective) gold are model names not the materials, but maybe that's not the case. Any silver owners know otherwise?

 

[auricgoldfinger]

The color nomenclature has nothing to do with the materials.

 

[taipan254]

The color nomenclature has nothing to do with the materials.

I stand corrected and deleted the post.

 

[seeteeyou]

FYI - Oyaide did something back in 2014 and that's able to reach 102.3% IACS with something similar to the brand of Richard Branson

http://oyaide.de/102SSC/102SSC_Press_Release_Information_ENG.pdf
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue78/oyaide_cables.htm

The copper base material for 102 SSC is refined in Japan and conforms to the elite Japanese JIS C1011 industrial standard. Compared to other JIS C1011 coppers, we specified only pure virgin copper that does not contain any recycled material. This eliminates any chance of legacy contamination and impurities. While acceptable performance can be achieved with recycled copper, the extra effort required for using virgin copper produces not only a superior product but also a degree of pride, which comes from knowing we are using the purest possible approach. Even though assay testing reveals no quantitative difference between pure virgin and recycled C1011 copper, we felt that even the remotest possibility of contamination was unacceptable. Our aim is always to achieve the maximum possible performance and never to settle for "good enough".

Our virgin copper base material is delivered to one of Japan's most advanced wire drawing facilities where it is first rolled into a rod and then brought to a fineness of about 1mm in numerous stages to minimize stress and deterioration of the crystal structure of the copper. In typical copper wire drawing processes, impurities are removed by acid cleaning (pickling). However, the cleaning liquid tends to leave a residue, which affects performance and does not succeed in completely removing all impurities. For our 102 SSC copper, we have instead employed mechanical peeling – a very precisely controlled process that removes 100% of impurities. Our use of this more costly process, rarely seen in audio cable production, demonstrates our commitment to bring you products of the highest possible quality.

After mechanical peeling, the wire is annealed to remove all stresses and strains induced by the drawing process. A great deal of skill and dedication went into determining the exact time and temperature specifications required to maintain maximum mechanical strength, highest electrical conductivity, and optimal recrystallization. Commonly used bell type annealing leaves a residue of soot. To avoid this, we adopted 'in-line' electric annealing. Test results after this process, show an incredible conductivity level of 102.3 % IACS. This result is the namesake for 102 SSC.

OTOH, the treatment process of QSA seemed to work best if we're going for 3N copper (i.e. 99.9% purity) while we could also get our hands on 2N flavors

https://www.americanelements.com/copper-wire-7440-50-8
https://www.americanelements.com/copper-ii-oxide-wire-1317-38-0

 

[kennyb123]

Can electric pulses alter the copper's crystal structure?

Very nicely done. Synergistic Research has claimed that they used a process that involves a “multi-stage high voltage treatment process”. What you’ve discovered about electroplasticity suggests that that there could definitely be positive benefits from doing this. Maybe the scoffers owe SR an apology.

I’ve wondered if QSA might have started with a similar approach as SR, but are taking it far beyond.

 

[highstream]

The question that comes to mind is if they are using Blue Jeans and Iconoclast cables, are they treating the ends, doing something they can do from the end(s) or taking it apart? If the latter, why not just buy the Belden cable and assemble it themselves -- or is that what they are doing? And then is Sablon using the same or similar type of cable, and what are they doing with that -- disassembly or ...? For the Ultimate, they're charging almost $6K over what Sablon does for the Prince power cord.

 

[Blackmorec]

The question that comes to mind is if they are using Blue Jeans and Iconoclast cables, are they treating the ends, doing something they can do from the end(s) or taking it apart? If the latter, why not just buy the Belden cable and assemble it themselves -- or is that what they are doing? And then is Sablon using the same or similar type of cable, and what are they doing with that -- disassembly or ...? For the Ultimate, they're charging almost $6K over what Sablon does for the Prince power cord.

I would be very doubtful that they are deconstructing cables because:
1. It would just add several unnecessary steps to their manufacturing process
2. The OEM of the starting product would have no control over the final quality
3. QSA would be paying the OEM for something they don‘t need

In my audiophile daydreams, I posed the question; “If someone found a very simple way to increase the performance of a $50 component that allowed it to reach the sonic equivalent of a $5000 component, would I buy it and if so, for how much?

Let’s substitute actual high performing products in my rhetorical question. If someone managed to ‘treat’ a $1000 NAD amplifier such that it couldn‘t be differentiated sonically from a $50,000 D‘Agostino amplifier, how much would I be prepared to pay for it?

Different product category, same question

A Rolex watch costs $10,000 but a Citizen watch keeps time more accurately. Does that mean that the Citizen is worth the same as a Rolex?

The underlying question here is; how do we, the consumer, assign value to a hi-fi component? Is it on sonic performance alone, or do other value-related parameters come into the equation; things like materials, complexity of manufacture, reputation, service level, market acceptance (desirability), depreciation etc.

 

[seeteeyou]

First of all, not just anything from Belden would do the trick or else they didn't have to pick BJC in the first place

https://headfonics.com/the-cook-of-cables-peter-breaking-bradstock-speaks/

I can guarantee that a 12awg copper speaker cable from Blue Jeans Cable is going to get 90% of the way towards the sound of the most expensive speaker cables you can come up with – to get the other 10%, you’re going to have to pay up, and if cost is no object, you might as well buy the cable that’s going to make you satisfied. Not all expensive cables are going to beat that Blue Jeans Cable, however.

https://headfonics.com/the-cook-of-cables-peter-breaking-bradstock-speaks/2/

The stock cables that are listed as 7N have basically no chance of actually being 7N – aside from the boutique niche company Acrolink, nobody has shown any proof that their product is 7N pure, so even the best stock cables are not worth keeping around. 7N exists in small lab quantities, not in any production lines, as basically every step of production will contaminate it.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/page-5#post-849857

1. As we did our R&D, we realized that QSA's treatment works optimally with lower purity wire. As we applied treatment to the exotic cables of various manufacturers, we could improve those cables but it seemed that when treatment was applied to inexpensive lower purity wire, the impact of treatment was much more significant. Very few cable manufacturers offer a line with high purity wire and another line with low purity wire while keeping all the other design elements constant (such as geometry, air-dielectric, shielding, etc). It turns out that Iconoclast does and so their cables were an ideal platform for testing and indeed, we found that by applying treatment to their cables with lower purity 3N ETP copper, we could get better results than by treating the same cable that used the much more expensive ultrapure OCC copper. And so this is quite ironic and why this path is unique -- while other manufacturers go out of their way to seek the highest purity (and most expensive) conductors possible, we are intentionally seeking out the wire that is at the bottom of the barrel. While it's obvious the BOM for our starting materials is low, as I stated before these cables serve merely as vehicles for what we believe is most important and that is the QSA treatment that is applied.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/page-10#post-857365

Here's the dilemma, however. While both cables improved with treatment, the lower purity 3N cable improved much more dramatically to the extent that it now outperformed the 7N cable. The 3N cable just sounded more alive and had more presence. The 7N cable sounded more lifeless but also more smeared and closed in.

We could have easily used much more expensive starting cables for this line but the dilemma we had with many of these expensive, highly-regarded "audiophile" cables on the market is that they almost universally use higher purity conductor and if they did have an entry level class that used a lower purity conductor, there usually were other compromises such as the use of less effective shielding, an inferior dielectric, geometry, etc. Like I said, Iconoclast is unique in their offerings where the only variable among their classes was the purity of the conductor used. We found that post-treatment, the 3N Iconoclast cables and Blue Jeans cables were outperforming the much more expensive cables we compared them against. An interesting story, one company who's cables we treated acknowledged the superior impact of QSA's treatment on their cables but ultimately refused to work with us because of the quandary that after treatment, their entry level $6k interconnects were now outperforming their statement $30k+ interconnects that they had spent years developing. If we can find interconnects that perform better than the Iconoclast interconnects we have selected for the Gamma line once they have received treatment, we are happy to move to that but so far, we have not heard better regardless of price.

Basically their "key to success" should be having lower purity 3N ETP copper and that seemed to get the job done so far.

---

Even their fuses didn't work very well with higher purity + conductivity to begin with, go figure

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/207/#comment-1233388

Actually, as crazy as it may sound, using their $5K fuse sounds better than bypassing the fuse completely. I've tried this on several different components. The only place where the fuse wasn't an improvement was on my phono stage, which is all with silver wire - hookup wire, transformers, chokes, etc. For some reason that $5K fuse did not sound good there, and that has something to do with the silver wire. But it was pretty good improvement everywhere else.

I did not end up paying $5K for a fuse... that's too crazy for me... but I've done all these experiments.

https://headfonics.com/the-cook-of-cables-peter-breaking-bradstock-speaks/2/

Having OCC silver over OCC copper simply adds more detail. OCC copper is a superior value, but silver is the most conductive metal on the planet — and it’s incredibly sad how many people are afraid of it because they think it will be bright and harsh – to where customers move in the wrong direction when it comes to wire composition, to get away from it. But I’ve never once been told my OCC silver is harsh – it’s just a better sounding version of copper all-around.

---

More importantly, BJC already got everything down to a T with test reports and all that

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/networkcablereports.htm
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-your-cat6-a-dog.htm
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUE0qXoiMMRD6g2pSoRYmBA/videos

Further readings

https://hackaday.com/2016/01/30/is-your-cat-6-ethernet-cable-cat-6-probably-not
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/bjc-cat-network-cable-quality-interview

---

To a certain extent, perhaps the length (on top of the amount of conductor) might turn out to make a difference even if a shorter one were already a good fit?

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-crème-de-la-crème.27433/page-476#post-780214

5. Cheap, long CAT5 unshielded UTP cable is what sounds best. UTP data pairs are transformer decoupled twice and is preferable to STP. Unshielded sounds better than even a floating shield. Longer sounds better than shorter. I recall Emile is using 45 meters of cheap CAT5 unshielded UTP cabling to his Extreme and so maybe something like the following sounds better than any audiophile cabling?

https://www.amazon.com/150FT-Cat5e-Ethernet-Patch-Cable/dp/B072KLZN7R

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/qsa-lanedri-series.36078/page-12#post-858713

For example, I found the impact of a 30-foot Gamma Revelation LAN cable to have greater impact than the QSA-treated network switch that I tried upstream of this LAN cable. Where I expect to see the greatest gains, beyond the gains from a QSA-treated component like a DAC, for example, is with a QSA-treated power supply for that DAC. While treating the SMPS for DAVE will undoubtedly have positive results, there are advantages to treating an over-specified linear PSU because they have much more conductor in them. The amount of conductor in a 600VA toroidal transformer, for example, is just so much greater than what is probably in the entire DAC. Other things like the chokes and internal DC cabling should have significant impact, too.

 

[Tuckers]

Regarding Synergistic Research and Electroplasty. There was a recent Youtube video touring the manufacturing area with Ted Denney. In the final room where they hang the finished cables, there were two AudioDharma Cable Cookers. So its pretty easy to see that SR does something along those lines to some of their products.

 

[highstream]

Another way to look at the use of BJ and Iconoclast cables is that they help allow QSA get a lower price point for the Gamma line. For a higher line they use the more expensive Sablon. For the top of the line, they aren’t talking yet. Of course, if they’re using already built cables, that likely means they aren’t being taken apart.

 

[taipan254]

As a follow up, ChatGPT was giving me some different answers and I got it to clarify its meaning:

I apologize for the confusion in my previous response. The phenomenon I described in that response is not electroplasticity, but rather a technique called electrically assisted manufacturing (EAM) that is used to improve the properties of materials, including the electrical conductivity of copper. EAM is a process that uses high-frequency electric pulses to create localized heating and melting of the metal, which can lead to a refined microstructure and improved properties.

There are several studies that investigate the improvement of electrical conductivity of copper using EAM. Here are a few examples:

"Electrical conductivity enhancement of copper using electrically assisted manufacturing" by J. A. Palmer et al. (Journal of Materials Processing Technology, 2017) reports on the use of EAM to improve the electrical conductivity of copper by up to 10%.

"Electrically assisted manufacturing of copper and copper alloys: Grain refinement and enhancement of electrical conductivity" by J. A. Palmer et al. (Materials Science and Engineering A, 2019) investigates the effect of EAM on the microstructure and electrical conductivity of copper and copper alloys.

"Effect of high-frequency current on electrical conductivity of copper and aluminum wires" by L. Xu et al. (IEEE Transactions on Magnetics, 2014) reports on the use of high-frequency current to improve the electrical conductivity of copper and aluminum wires.

These studies demonstrate that EAM can be used to improve the electrical conductivity of copper by refining its microstructure and reducing defects. However, it is important to note that the specific conditions used in EAM, such as the frequency and duration of the electric pulses, can affect the degree of improvement in electrical conductivity.

 

[Tuckers]

This is a very interesting thread!

 

[Willgolf]

I have no cable skin in the game yet. Nobody is forcing anyone to try QSA or for that matter any company's product. The fact is they give you a 30-day money-back guarantee. Try it....if you like it keep it, if not send it back. You may be out shipping costs. Is that not worth a listen?

I have tried every tweak imaginable and also cords and cables. Why do cords and cables sound different and have different price points? I have no idea how they are made or what secret sauce might be in them. I will say I purchased a silver QSA jitterplug and was floored by the change in SQ. Based on that I am considering the QSA Lanedri cables. Are they expensive? Hell yes. Are my Hijiri Takumi PC's that I own expensive? Hell yes.

If it makes my musical enjoyment a better experience, I am willing to try them out. What have I got to lose?

 

[atxkyle]

As a follow up, ChatGPT was giving me some different answers and I got it to clarify its meaning:

Although ChatGPT is incredible for generating, editing and critiquing writing (I've even used it some already in my work), I haven't found it to be reliable as a source of "facts." It will just make up numbers, cite studies that don't exist, etc. i.e. Would definitely want to fact check all of this in other sources.

I'm not finding the first paper it "cited" in Google or Google scholar search:

Your search - "Electrical conductivity enhancement of copper using electrically assisted manufacturing" by J. A. Palmer et al. (Journal of Materials Processing Technology, 2017) - did not match any articles.

Suggestions:
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
Try fewer keywords.
Try your query on the entire web

 

[jeremya]

Some definitions I dug up:

The use of electricity to aid in deformation of metallic materials is termed as electrically assisted manufacturing (EAM).

The direct effect of electricity on the deformation of metallic materials is termed as electroplastic effect.

(Source).

If those definitions are accurate, it would seem that EAM and electroplasticity require bending or deforming the metal while electricity is applied.

I’m not convinced that is practical / wise with a fully-assembled cable or feasible with a PowerJitter hard plug or a fuse (unless treatment was done pre-assembly).

 

[JackJohnson316]

One idea I had for diy making similar cables or products is to coat the metal in the end plugs with some carbon nano liquid and then use a Telos QBT cable run-in machine. Basically this machine runs such high voltages into the cable that the metal liquifies (using my own words) and then solidifies again. But if you put nano liquid on the conductors then perhaps some of this carbon based superconductor liquid will “absorb” into the metal conductors. Repeat the process over and over for greater absorption. Try different nano liquids with different compositions, like silver, for different effects. Not sure if this would work, but it might be possible. For greater effect coat the entire conductor in a nano liquid, then electroplastic it with such a machine. I read that synergistic research uses a Telos QBT machine, but I cannot confirm this. Who knows, maybe it could work. It would be worth a try.

 

[Blackmorec]

One idea I had for diy making similar cables or products is to coat the metal in the end plugs with some carbon nano liquid and then use a Telos QBT cable run-in machine. Basically this machine runs such high voltages into the cable that the metal liquifies (using my own words) and then solidifies again. But if you put nano liquid on the conductors then perhaps some of this carbon based superconductor liquid will “absorb” into the metal conductors. Repeat the process over and over for greater absorption. Try different nano liquids with different compositions, like silver, for different effects. Not sure if this would work, but it might be possible. For greater effect coat the entire conductor in a nano liquid, then electroplastic it with such a machine. I read that synergistic research uses a Telos QBT machine, but I cannot confirm this. Who knows, maybe it could work. It would be worth a try.

Hi JJ,
Interesting thoughts! Some years ago a company released a hi-fi specific contact enhancer that I bought and tried. I was frankly stunned by the results. The uplift in clarity was something I’d never heard before, so all the hi-fi related parameters as well as naturalness were radically enhanced. The stuff was extremely expensive, but the effects it brought were more than worth the cost of entry, based on the audiophile value scale where sound improvement has a monetary worth.
The stuff had a peculiar, very pleasant ‘scent’ and was highly volatile, so given my access to some very sophisticated analytical instrumentation, I ran a small aliquot through a GC-Mass Spectrometer. Turned out the stuff was a Fluoro-carbon, basically a fluorinated hydrocarbon similar to ‘Freon’ with a little Lemonene to provide the smell. The scent of Lemonene is also known to be very relaxing and ‘euphoria producing‘, in a mood rather than psychotropic drug way (The same way certain light wavelengths and essential oils can modify mood).

So I bought 250ml of analytical grade solvent for about 1/50th of the price and cleaned my system. The difference it made was transformational.

So, given what we know about taking complete plugs and cables and transforming their sonics without dissassembly or anything destructive like heat that would damage delicate materials, the treatment is something that is external and fairly benign. The manufacturer talks about Quantum effects and indeed the company had Quantum in its name, so I would assume that part is genuine. There’s a lot of Quantum stuff that’s really just everyday electromagnetism. The treatment isn’t patented, so there’s a good chance it’s based on already known effects, just not previously applied in the audio sphere. So some kind of surface treatment, coupled with some adjustments at the electro-magnetic atomic structure would fit the bill nicely.
I‘m afraid I don‘t buy the part about liquifying metal as that would require a lot of energy that would affect the less robust parts of cable and plug structures, but a technique to modify the surface conductivity of the cables and plugs is certainly very feasible.
QSA fuses are another good subject for study. They appear to be unchanged from regular cheap-as-chips fuses, yet have the ability to transform the sound produced by a hi-fi. I have already demonstrated that simply cleaning a fuse’s end caps with nothing more than a highly effective, low residue solvent can bring monumental changes, so I tend to favour the concept of surface treatment combined with some sort of electro-magnetic conditioning. A deep clean, followed by surface conductivity enhancement and some form of electromagnetic conditioning would for sure make a very large, even profound difference to how a cable or plug sounds.

 

[iain]

So I bought 250ml of analytical grade solvent for about 1/50th of the price

can you give some examples/brands please?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...FWIW @iain I use 100% reagent-grade isopropyl-alcohol, but even widely available 95% is good. I suggest searching "100% isopropyl alcohol near me" and see what you get. @Blackmorec may also offer a different solvent option, but I like the 100% isopropyl here. It's very pure, in research or reagent grade. Good Luck!

 

[Blackmorec]

Hi

So I bought 250ml of analytical grade solvent for about 1/50th of the price

can you give some examples/brands please?

Hi Iain,
It was something I bought from a reagents catalog 20+ years ago in Germany. My point was that thoroughly cleaning contacts with an ultra-low residue solvent has major benefits. The problem is, certain solvents, while very very effective, are also neuro-toxic in that their vapours attack the myelin sheaths around nerves and can do brain damage. A manufacturer, with the appropriate fume hoods and precautions would have no problem using such solvents to strip any oils and contamination from connectors prior to treating with some sort of conductivity enhancement, which may be ’cured’ to make it permanent. Curing can be done at fairly low temperatures so fits with treating pre-assembled products.