Reliable Blue Ray Player

[jcmusic]

Amir,
I ended up with the Samsung BRP with WiFi, used a HDMI to DVI cable and Optical for audio works great; thanks for all your help.

Jay

 

[NorthStar]

Trouble over Blu-ray water...

Ok, I've been doing a lot of reading recently on Blu-ray players.
Here's what I found:

Blu-ray lenses go out of alignment or simply cannot read Blu-ray discs any longer ("Can't Read Disc", "Check Your Disc", "Copyright Violation", etc.) after 18 months to 36 months depending of usage!

Many Panasonic BD players fall into this category. And with time it seems to be normal that cheaply built BD players simply quit! The BD lens or the motor from the disc drive.
Also, many Samsung BD players have a heck of a rough time reading newer BDs. And their drive mechanism don't last either!
Also, many Sony BD players have issues as well.
LG, Sharp, and other budget brands from Walmart don't last either.

Pioneer and Denon aren't excluded either!

Oppo BD players seems to fare better.

So, buy a BD player today, and be prepare to buy another one in about two years! That is the way it goes with many of these!

I got an estimate for repair of my Panny BD55; total cost = $540! Can't read Blu-ray discs anymore because it needs a new motor! Part cost = $350!
This is outrageous! And I got the paper right here in front of me!

Now, I need to cool off, and get a handle on my emotions! The repair bill is much higher than the real cost of the machine, even at its MSRP!

I read a lot over at AVS, and would like to know from you guys here on your similar experiences.
I am also in touch with Panasonic & Samsung technicians, and I am learning quite a lot from these people as well.

Blu-ray Picture & Sound is magnificent! But the numerous issues surrounding it (disc compability, reading, loading, reliability, settings, streaming, audio dropouts, picture breaking, freezing, pixelization, etc., etc., etc.) are a big detriment for many people including myself.
It's been five years, and things aren't improving for one bit! To the contrary, with time they get worse as your BD players stop functioning, or cannot read the latest BD releases!
I'm not making that up; it happened to me twice (two caput players), and it happened to a lot of other people.

What about older people that are not technologically inclined and would luv to have better picture and sound?

It ain't what it used to be! Now you have to constantly read the Internet, keep up with Firmware updates, and upgrade your electronics every couple years or so!

We all know that Blu-ray was based on a platform of constant rewriting of the codecs for copy protection, and that manufacturers have to keep up with firmware updates, as the Blu-ray discs are encrypted with newer codecs every month or so!
But it's a big mess out there, and they don't support customers who buy their Blu-ray discs and BD players!

And now 3D!!!

I don't know about you guys but I'm quite fed up right now!
And reviewers can't help you because when they review a product, they have it in their possession for a week to a month only. So there is no way they can write about reliability and longetivity of the product!
And some reviewers from some sites don't even ever had the product in real physical form!!!
I'm sure you know some of those bad sites. And some of those reviewers who get paid by the companies to write about their products!

But the main point here is RELIABILITY over time!
And that I can share with you all because I've been an early Blu-ray adopter, and I had few Blu-ray players already! ...Five Blu-ray players and three HD DVD players!
And I'm going to get another two BD players real soon, but I just don't know where to aim for!
...Or to simply accept the fact that they won't last what I would like them to last for.

Please, give your feedbacks and tell it like it is! I'm talking about real true experience over time and real usage; and not short time experience with your BD player and just occasional usage.
* I watch Blu-ray movies every single day, and sometimes twice a day or more, for the last four years+ or so.

I probably spent more time talking to companie's technicians in the last few years than all you guys combined here together!

If you care, please speak up.

P.S. Sorry for the typos, because I am convinced that there are some; and if people can pinpoint them, that's how I learn to improve in life!
- By the way, how do you get to a feature or a program that underlines your typos in red?

 

[Robin Hood]

The Oppo BD players seem to be the most reliable based on the research I done. The Sony PS3 may be a fair choice since I believe there are several options for repair or replacement with a refurbished unit. The more reliable option may be to use a BD drive with your computer to play or rip your BD content. Once you rip your movies to a hard drive and copy them to another hard drive, you never have to worry about reliability problems again nor will you be subjecting your BD player to the same level of wear and tear.

The likely scenario for many people is that they have several DVD players or computer with DVD drives so unless they plan on purchasing several BD players or drives, the DVD format is the reliable workhorse solution for excellent video and audio. Obviously not as good as BD but at least you don't have to buy 2 or more Oppos. If you just read many of the negative user online reviews all other BD players are boat anchors. In addition, based on user reviews that have both BD and DVD versions of the same movies, many of the movies on BD are not as good as the DVD versions or are often just copies of the DVDs to the BD format.

Of course if you can afford 2 Oppos every 3 years, why not?

 

[NorthStar]

Hear me oh mighty force of the Blu!

Thanks Robin for your feedback, I truly appreciate.

I heard you loud and clear! But Robin, it is not everyone that is going the computer way or the DVD way!
There are tons of people that want a single standalone Blu-ray player that is priced reasonably, and plays reliably like DVD players used to.
...Three, four, five years...

My two Panny BD players didn't last me two years and I paid $400 and $335 for them at that time!
My Sammy BD player lasted just over two years and now cannot read the latest Blu-ray discs because of no support from Samsung!
My Sony BD player doesn't play few of the latest BD titles and is acting up sometimes! And it's a new BD player!
My Oppo player is the best but not perfect as it also have some issues once in a while (83).

My two Toshiba HD DVD players are simply dinosaurs with no support for HD DVDs any longer, duh, and no internal support for DTS-HD MA!

I am simply sick and tired! I have to constantly read the audio forums to find out about the issues with my players, the discs issues, and the lastest firmwares!
By the way I am not connected to the Internet, NONE of my players, so I burn the discs myself.
And I certainly don't care for BD Live!

Now Robin, I am certainly not the only person on this planet in this situation!
And it's for the people like me that I am posting right now right here! ...My family, my friends, my neighbors!

Am I doing wrong in my ways of life? Are older and less technically inclined people have to suffer the machinations of the manufacturers in their goal to constantly fill their bank accounts with less than perfect products and with very short lifespan? Because that's how they make their money now; you have to buy another player every couple years or so! And the Blu-ray discs are getting more and more problematic of being read properly (or not at all)!

And like you said, some BD titles are no better than the DVD themselves!
And new BD releases are very expensive! $30, $40, $65 ('Tron' 2 movies-set), $50 ('Apocalype Now' - Full Disclosure Edition), $100 ('Alien Anthology'), ...all Disney BD titles are anywhere from $30 to $40!

I simply don't have the time like the kids to run after some coupons over the Internet!

I can mention way more things that are not 'rosy' at all, but I'm sure you already know many of them already.

This world of gadgets and technology we now live in has some advantages but not at the expense of some disadvantages also! And the biggest disadventage is MONEY! ...They suck you out totally dry till there is no more blood running through your veins and making your heart 'unpulsing'!

...And that is reality! And there is no What's Best on that!

 

[fas42]

Bob, I had a quick look, and rather bizarrely some people are speaking well of one of the cheapies: Funai. This is Magnavox, Insignia, etc brands, they especially like that they read all the latest disks. You may have had other experiences, if not, it may be worth a try ...

Frank

 

[NorthStar]

Bob, I had a quick look, and rather bizarrely some people are speaking well of one of the cheapies: Funai. This is Magnavox, Insignia, etc brands, they especially like that they read all the latest disks. You may have had other experiences, if not, it may be worth a try ...

Frank

Lol Frank, I'm not sure if I wanna go that way.

I think I'm gong to invest $600 and get the Oppo BDP-93 Universal player (here in Canada).
And hopefully it can last me three years (that's $200 per year).

* I got tons of HDCD encoded CDs, and a fair collection of SACDs, plus few DVD-Audios.

...And I want an Android, an iPad2, a laptop, a big 65" Plasma 3D (Panasonic), an Epson projector, a convertible sportscar (Jag), a great new digital camera, a big house, ...
And a front view on the ocean, and a rear view on the mountains.

Oh, and I want my own island too!

 

[kach22i]

My wife gave the go-a-head for getting a Blue-Ray, my old DVD player is acting up anyway. I asked her why she is interested in Blue-Ray, she claims that many movies only come out in Blue-Ray (I have not noticed).

Looks like there are several $80 Sony models on sale locally.

How do people use the Wi-Fi feature on some models?

I still have a 15 year old 31" Panasonic CRT screen TV, and don't plan on replacing it until it fails (big enough for my room). And I have a 7 year old Rotel RSP-1066 surround processor, which I plan on keeping if it works with Blue-Ray, hoping it will but have not researched it.


EDIT:
Looks like I have some homework to do.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824630

Without HDMI, you will need to use the 1066's multi-channel analog inputs. So, be sure that you get a player with multi-channel analog outputs.

I believe the 1066 has only 5.1 analog in, but you will still be able to use the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD lossless audio in that configuration.

AFAIK, all decoding of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is done in the player because of the copyright/DRM stuff.

 

[amirm]

You don't need the WiFi connection unless you are going to stream Internet content or access (usually uninteresting) extras on Blu-ray that require network connectivity.

Does your TV have DVI? If so, you need a DVI to HDMI adapter (I assume it doesn't have HDMI; if it does, ignore this comment).

For audio, you can play the mandatory dolby digital out of the player as you are I am assuming with DVD today.

 

[NorthStar]

For sure, you can buy the Sony BDP-S580 (Wi-Fi) for a very low price nowadays, and it's a great value with very good performance for both Blu-rays, and DVDs (plays SACDs as well).

BUT! Wouldn't you like to upgrade your TV as well? ...Like a new widescreen Plasma for example? Nowadays you can buy a 50" Class for only $500! For $750 (street) you get a pretty good one (Panasonic TC-P50S30).

Me too I still have my 31" Panasonic GAOO TV, but I'm not watching it anymore.

HDMI was invented to create Jitter, to complicate our life, and make things worst between our components!
But everybody loves complications, and we all jumped on the bandwagon of futuristic & problematic technology.
We all believed it was easier, more simple (that's what they tried to make us believe), and we continue to live our life like nothing bad ever happens.

But now that CRT is a quasi extinct species, sometimes it seems that the choice is not ours any longer, but the world's impositions on us!

Anyway, we don't have to accept it, but there is something about following the masses...
Is it good, is it bad? Dunno, but that's the new flow.

Everything has an origin, a complementation (man & woman, Blu-ray player and HDTV, etc.), and matching stuff in life is like flying right. ...Well, you know what I mean...

15 years CRT TV; does it have S-VHS connection? Because that long ago was only Composite Video with very low resolution...

 

[kach22i]

Does your TV have DVI? If so, you need a DVI to HDMI adapter (...........

No DVI that I know of, will get out the old manuals soon.

15 years CRT TV; does it have S-VHS connection? Because that long ago was only Composite Video with very low resolution...

The old TV does have "S-Video" connections and a bunch of other RCA unbalanced connections.

My "master plan" was to wait until the whole 3D thing without glasses got sorted out, then upgrade across the board, but I don't foresee my finances improving by the time that day comes.

This is the local place with the $79 players, they have the SONY BDPS580 for $109 now, seems like a good item to start some research on.

http://www.abcwarehouse.com/product_catalog/pc_prodsbyprice.asp~assort_id~1279

 

[amirm]

You are going to have a problem soon George as part of "analog sunset" the Blu-ray player will be shipped with no ability to hook up to your TV if you don't have HDMI/DVI. So you will likely be forced to upgrade both.

 

[kach22i]

I really don't see the point of that until the TV fails, and it's just too big to go upstairs in the bedroom.

A strong enough reason for me to upgrade is to put the new TV above the fireplace, so I can rearrange the furniture for better two-channel stereo sound. Beyond that I see it as tossing good money away.

I know people on their 3rd flat TV, and I swear I still have a better overall set up (sound and picture) than any of them.

After reading this thread I now know people on their 3rd Blue-Ray player and feel even less motivation to "upgrade".

I was happy with my Laser-Disc and Pro-Logic, darn I feel old.

 

[amirm]

Well, I am saying there is an issue whether you are in favor of it or not . Here is the analog sunset clause in the copy protection license for Blu-ray players:


"Paragraph 2.2.2.1 of the AACS Adopter Agreement stipulates that "with the exception of Existing Models, any Licensed Player manufactured after December 31, 2010 shall limit analog video outputs for Decrypted AACS Content to SD Interlace Modes only [composite video, s-video, 480i component video and 576i video]. Existing Models may be manufactured and sold by Adopter up until December 31, 2011."

Designs which came out last year may be OK but new models for this year will either not have component output or limit its resolution per above. If that is OK, then sure, you can stay with what you have. If you have DVI, then you are OK either way.

 

[kach22i]

Thank you very much for the information Amirm.

I feel like I know what I'm up against now.

 

[NorthStar]

No DVI that I know of, will get out the old manuals soon.


The old TV does have "S-Video" connections and a bunch of other RCA unbalanced connections.

My "master plan" was to wait until the whole 3D thing without glasses got sorted out, then upgrade across the board, but I don't foresee my finances improving by the time that day comes.

This is the local place with the $79 players, they have the SONY BDPS580 for $109 now, seems like a good item to start some research on.

http://www.abcwarehouse.com/product_catalog/pc_prodsbyprice.asp~assort_id~1279

Yeah me too, my old 31" GAOO has a S-VHS input (good for an old DVD player with that type of connection, or a Super VHS VCR tape machine).
...At least it has separate Luminance, as compared to simple Composite Video.

The Sony BDP-S580 (Wi-Fi) is a good one, and inexpensive.
Even the BDP-S480 (non Wi-Fi) is reasonable for even less money.

* As for 3D, hmmm... I wouldn't count on that (in particular without glasses). ...Or in a distant galaxy of the future...
And by that time, you'll be dead anyway!

=> So, go for 2D, and Widescreen, Flat, Thin, and the largest size your room can accomodate,
and use the new type of connectors that work both for Video & Audio, just from one simple (well, not so simple...) HDMI cable.
That's the new Fashion nowadays anyway, and most people (normal ones) are into.

 

[kach22i]

I picked up a Sony BDP-S580 today, set up was fairly easy, took me a couple tries to get it all the way to what I wanted.

One lingering question; under the BD/DVD Viewing Settings,

BD Hybrid Disc Playback Layer

BD: Plays BD Layer
or
DVD/CD: Plays DVD or CD layer

I've had a DVD playing in both settings, I think the picture on regular DVD's is better with the last setting but I'm not 100% sure because I was making other setting changes at the time. It's just strange to have this selection, I assumed it would be automatic, and maybe it is.

I have not yet played a Blu-ray yet. For now I'm just using the DVD's I've taken out from the public library.

I'm hooked up to the Internet with it, the sales guy said Netfix is only $8.00 a month. What Internet services are worth while?

 

[amirm]

There are no commercial BD hybrid discs other than one that I think Universal produced (prototype or commercial I don't remember). So that setting doesn't matter. If you care, it tells the player when a disc is both BD and DVD merged into one disc (they at different depths from the surface of the disc), which one it should play by default. It will have no impact on playing just DVD discs.

 

[kach22i]

It will have no impact on playing just DVD discs.

Great, and when I put in a standard Blu-ray the setting will make no difference because there are no BD hybrid discs to speak of, right?

BD hybrid discs, I never knew there was such an animal.

The up side to all of this is that I did some serious cleaning and dusting.

 

[amirm]

That's correct. A bit of introduction. BD discs have a recording depth of .1mm. It is theoretically possible to put a DVD layer below that because DVD has a recording depth of 0.7mm. The red laser for DVD can then be designed to focus past the mostly translucent BD layer to get to the pits in DVD below it.

The challenge is that if you use a DVD as the substrate, that causes small variations on the BD layer deposited above it. BD using such shallow depth and fine focus, can't tolerate additional variations. As a result, yields go way down and costs way up. So while hybrid discs exist as possibility, practical implementations cost more than just throwing another DVD in the box. That causes its own issues of people selling off the DVD to someone else but such is life .