Review of Roon Media Player and Server

[Andre Marc]

Just to clear up a few things.

Andre- Roon has NO plans, at all, to bring "active speakers" to market of their own. They are, and plan to stay, a software only company. That does not mean that a speaker manufacture might not bring "active speakers" to market using some form of Roon.

Starting the next few months and over the next few years you will see equipment manufactures, both large and small, releasing Roon enabled products.

Also, the principles of Roon are the ones who developed Sooloos. They did not want to be equipment manufactures and went looking for one. Meridian was the one they ended up with. Roon has no ties with Meridian. It is a separate entity. Though they will continue to support Sooloos separately.

They will not support UPnP.

I agree somewhat that they should have held off until the software was a bit more mature. But some of their industry supporters wanted them to come to market sooner then later. Plus they received loads of feature requests that users and potential users wanted. A few examples: HQ Player; Quad DSD; not only DoP but native DSD; And so many more. Some of which was not on the drawing board or not a high priority.

How do I know the above? Well besides reading what has already been published about Roon, The New Jersey Audiophile Society hosted a presentation by Roon two weeks ago. Present were two of the principles of Roon.

Hey HiFiAl.

Thanks very much for the clarifications. Much appreciated. Stating they are a software company and that is their mission certainly makes it easier to understand where they are headed. Yes, I was well aware o the background and connection to Sooloos. I don't blame them for not wanting to manufacturer hardware.

That must have been a very interesting presentation.

 

[Andre Marc]

I don't agree. UPnP is not solid, sound technology. It's ill-conceived, and the fact that it somehow works for you just means you're lucky

For instance: UPnP, by itself, doesn't allow "apps" or third-party streams inside the control point apps. So if you're using Tidal, it's either a hack on top of UPnP, or it's using OpenHome/DS to do that.

actually, it is not that complicated. Simple firmware updates can allow for third party streams. Bryston just allowed for Tidal last month.

I dunno maybe I am just lucky...

 

[Andre Marc]

No, never heard or read anything of the kind. They're doing software, and software only.



As I said, I'm happy you find UPNP to work for you. But Linn Kazoo is not UPNP, it's OpenHome. It doesn't work purely in UPNP anymore. Linn Kinsky, a deprecated app, is UPNP. I don't know about that Audionet app, though. And I agree, Kazoo is a great app, you should see it in action with a Linn product. It's by far the most stable, solid app out there.

My statement came from an observational standpoint, as well as a technical one. In a previous life, I dealt with computers and software, so I know what goes behind the scenes with a simple network file transfer, versus a UPNP/DLNA stream. And you'll have to take my word for it, they're not even remotely comparable, UPNP loses every time. It's a roundabout way of getting files across a network, from device A to device B.

Progress is made by ditching unnecessary technologies, and UPNP is one of them. The sooner hi-end audio abandon that, the better we'll all going to be.

I hear all that you say. Trust me I am open. And getting rid of "unnecessary technologies" is absolutely something i am all for.

Just to restate, i have seen over promising and under delivering far too often in this industry, so excuse my skepticism.

 

[rrr]

Roon looks interesting however if you attempt to sign up for a 14 day trial they require that you provide a credit card.

I do not provide credit card information unless I am actually signing up for a purchase because the more times that credit card information is provided to vendors the greater the chance of fraud.

 

[hifial]

Hey HiFiAl.

Thanks very much for the clarifications. Much appreciated. Stating they are a software company and that is their mission certainly makes it easier to understand where they are headed. Yes, I was well aware o the background and connection to Sooloos. I don't blame them for not wanting to manufacturer hardware.

That must have been a very interesting presentation.

Yes, it was a VERY interesting presentation. The best part was having the opportunity to talk directly to the people that designed the product.

They feel that what they do best is software and would rather have equipment manufactures do what they do best. And hopefully end up with a great product experience.

 

[hifial]

Roon looks interesting however if you attempt to sign up for a 14 day trial they require that you provide a credit card.

I do not provide credit card information unless I am actually signing up for a purchase because the more times that credit card information is provided to vendors the greater the chance of fraud.

Yes, the credit card info has been a VERY touchy situation.

Roon understands but they are bound by agreements with their data providers that require that Roon do it that way, is my understanding.


As far as your credit info, it is my understanding that Roon total wipes that clean, I believe right after the 14 days.


Also the reason that Roon only works on later generation iPads and such is that in order to run an info rich, fully interactive view and be smooth in operation is that it takes a certain amount of power that the earlier generation iPads do not have (32 vs 64 on iPad is my understanding). They are working on a cell phone app.
And I feel your pain, I am in the same boat. My iPad 3 will not do.

But there are ways around that. I use Splashtop (there are others) on my iPad and Mac Mini and run headless. I use my iPad to run my Mac Mini, launch Roon aand control it. Very easy to use and once set up it always works.


My recommendation to all is to go to the Roon Forums at Roon Labs dot com. They are VERY responsive to quires and there is already a lot of info there.

 

[asiufy]

actually, it is not that complicated. Simple firmware updates can allow for third party streams. Bryston just allowed for Tidal last month.

I dunno maybe I am just lucky...

Andre, it's not complicated *for you*. But it was for Bryston, as UPNP doesn't allow for third-party streams like Tidal, by the protocol's spec. So they had to extend it on their own, creating a kludge. This (integration with third-party streams) was one of the extensions Linn did, that ended up creating OpenHome/DS.

And yes, if you never had any issue with UPNP control points (and I don't mean OpenHome ones, purely UPNP stuff like Linn Kinsky), then count yourself absolutely lucky!

 

[amirm]

Roon looks interesting however if you attempt to sign up for a 14 day trial they require that you provide a credit card.

I do not provide credit card information unless I am actually signing up for a purchase because the more times that credit card information is provided to vendors the greater the chance of fraud.

I was with you and hence the reason I avoided the software the first time it was discussed here. But based on positive feedback from Caelin, I gave it a try. I am hoping based on data that I have provided, you can decide if it is likely that you would want to use the software in which case, the risks are worth the reward .

 

[Andre Marc]

Andre, it's not complicated *for you*. But it was for Bryston, as UPNP doesn't allow for third-party streams like Tidal, by the protocol's spec. So they had to extend it on their own, creating a kludge. This (integration with third-party streams) was one of the extensions Linn did, that ended up creating OpenHome/DS.

And yes, if you never had any issue with UPNP control points (and I don't mean OpenHome ones, purely UPNP stuff like Linn Kinsky), then count yourself absolutely lucky!

I will give you that my friend..for me as a user it is uncomplicated in that I don't see the blood and guts on the other end.

I am all ears on this trust me. If my Bryston, (and SOtM) licenses Roon tomorrow I will update my firmware before you can say the word go.

Interestingly. Jesus from Sonore/Simple Design, who imports SOtM is also designing a Roon based server based on his Rendu.

Hey when will you be at the store Alex?

 

[amirm]

My recommendation to all is to go to the Roon Forums at Roon Labs dot com. They are VERY responsive to quires and there is already a lot of info there.

Let me back this. While I have not posted there, I routinely find answers there and the feel I get from the company employees is always positive and friendly. And you get to talk to the principals.

To give another example, when my 14 day trial ran out, they enrolled me into yearly program. I sent email to the "contact" info asking if I can upgrade to lifetime membership. And said that I liked the software. I immediately get a reply from CEO of the company acknowledging that, telling me that he is personally reviewing the messages on that contact alias.

 

[Andre Marc]

Yes, it was a VERY interesting presentation. The best part was having the opportunity to talk directly to the people that designed the product.

They feel that what they do best is software and would rather have equipment manufactures do what they do best. And hopefully end up with a great product experience.

Gotcha, and I agree. So then lets see how many manufacturers get on board...

 

[asiufy]

I will give you that my friend..for me as a user it is uncomplicated in that I don't see the blood and guts on the other end.

I am all ears on this trust me. If my Bryston, (and SOtM) licenses Roon tomorrow I will update my firmware before you can say the word go.

Interestingly. Jesus from Sonore/Simple Design, who imports SOtM is also designing a Roon based server based on his Rendu.

Hey when will you be at the store Alex?

Cool, that's the attitude
I'm going to be in starting Nov. 18!

cheers,
alex

 

[Andre Marc]

Cool, that's the attitude
I'm going to be in starting Nov. 18!

cheers,
alex

Fantastic, I will def. see you there.

BTW, I have asked Bryston for their unvarnished opinion about UPnP. I have no agenda. If they hate it too, or if they have no issues, i will post their answer. In life many times
it is good to be wrong..and I hope Roon spreads like wildfire, although like others here I have my reservations about the pricing.

One last note, I was told early on by a few members of the press that there WERE going to be speakers involved..and I think they were confused
first of all by the name, and by the fact that Meridian has had their networked speakers out for years. To make it worse, they have RoonServer (?)
which, is pretty clear cut!

 

[bplexico]

RoonServer equals headless versus of Roon (Core) which manages your music library and allows for playback to a DAC.

Roon (Core) same as above but not headless ( has GUI )

Roon (remote) controls playback of either RoonServer or Roon (Core) to DAC.

RoonSpeakers will allow a lightweight device to be used for playback to DAC, i.e. upcoming support by companies such as Sonore, Auralic, etc...will still require Roon (core) or RoonServer to be running on another device to manage the music library.

Roon (Core) and RoonServer can run on devices such as Mac and PCs.

Roon Remote can run on devices such as Android, IOS (if 64 bit architecture), PCs, Macs....

This is speaking in generalities, more details can be found on the Roon Community Forum.

And of course Linux support for which I refer you to the Roon Community.

And the Tidal integration is wonderful.

For those who prefer to use a product such as HQPlayer there will be integration with Roon allowing Roon to serve as the front end.

Yes a lot of terminology to digest.

And I can attest to the fact that the development team at Roon is wonderfully responsive.

 

[asiufy]

Great summary, bplexico, better than I could've done

 

[Andre Marc]

I just got word that Bryston sent Roon a BDP-2 player and integration is in the works at Bryston.

 

[amirm]

That's excellent.

 

[Andre Marc]

That's excellent.

One of the reasons I am a Bryston customer is that the listen.

Folks wanted network streaming: they got it
Folks wanted USB output: they got it
Folks wanted DSD: they got it
Folks wanted Tidal: they got it

And now Roon...

 

[amirm]

One of the reasons I am a Bryston customer is that the listen.

Folks wanted network streaming: they got it
Folks wanted USB output: they got it
Folks wanted DSD: they got it
Folks wanted Tidal: they got it

And now Roon...

And one of the reasons I am a Roon customer is that they listen. Folks wanted Bryston support, now they will get it.

 

[Ron Party]

Andre, multi-channel?