every live event and recording is different. live is never the same twice. tracking that is how your system should perform. add the mastering variable and it's another difference added on.
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Yes. And we can use our experience to judge whether or not one approaches the other.
For me it means no loss of information no hyper detailed "definition" either. Breathy , neutral , harmonically coherent and not congealed or "warm" like Cardas of the past.
An excellent sense of space and ambience is retrieved.
In the recent past I used Nordost Vahalla 2, Shunyata and Kimber.
They do need break in despite what others say- 2 or 3 days on the audiodharma cooker lets them reach their dynamic contrast potential and opens things up.
Sorry Ron, I'm not really good at putting pen to paper on how things sound. The good news is that most dealers will let you take home a set to try. I have 3 pair in the system now.
Good Luck,
On deck tonight:
Original Decca pressing of The Rolling Stones
Original Decca pressing of The Rolling Stones
This is my first mono record ever. It's quite a different presentation!
I thought the recording quality was pretty bad.
I thought the recording quality was pretty bad.
Ron,
47 feet is near limit recommendation for single ended cable, are you not worried about signal loss?
Signal loss in terms of reduction of voltage? No, not at 47 feet. I think the concern is about picking up noise, not about resistance.
Whose recommendation do you have in mind?
Ron,
your correct, it’s about picking up noise Not voltage reduction.
I just remember a friend that use to say single ended are good for about 50 feet, but from what I read on the net, it’s seems to be fine till 100 feet.
my mistake
After hearing Ron's system for several hours, all on my own source material, I feel he's around 75% of the way there. The system is big, and grand sounding and the room wasn't too quiet for my taste despite a rather good amount of treatment. Images didn't have the 8' tall problem that some panels do which surprised me. Vocals definitely sound very pure, and very 3d in his well thought out room. There is so much potential of this system, and knowing Ron's tastes (big, scale, and vocals to die for), he's certainly on a successful path!
While there is a lot of woofage here with the active bass towers, getting the bass to match the panels isn't there yet, and I found myself continuously reducing the output level over the session. There is a very large node at 50-60hz (I'm guessing +10db) that was distracting on electronica and I believe since my visit he's tried to ameliorate this with room treatment devices. I really think the best "upgrade" for Ron is a visit from Gary Kuo who will spend the time to configure the complicated system better (in the room itself as well as the crossover settings) and get the bass towers as close to the panels as possible. Gary also owns the BG ribbon IP iirc so intimately knows the main panel. This would cost less than a fancy cable, so it should be the first priority.
I listened to mainly digital, with a bit of tape thrown in later in the session. Tape, naturally of course, was much better. I suggested some different tubes in the Lampi as the RCAs he's using sound soft on top and aren't articulate in the bass. They are smearing piano arpeggios as well. A more objective tube like a Sylvania will be beneficial. I also feel that Ron's ultimate amps are different - the VTL is more of a hifi tube sound that combined with the BG panel, loses some of the rich harmonics, nuance, and decay that is possible. Some of that "suspension of disbelief" that Ron enjoyed when I had Jadis tubes (or even FirstWatt SIT) in my system isn't there. But candidly, I don't know how much power these speakers really require so cracking a few eggs may be necessary. I've suggested a Jadis 100 watt tube amp to start with, and if that doesn't work no SET or anything similar is even an option.
To conclude, Ron has made a lot of progress over the past few months and I look forward to hearing the system in another 6 months after he further optimizes it (and introduces a high end analog rig) - it's a SOTA system so the bar is very high, but i have utmost confidence that it matches Ron's sonic preferences very well and he will enjoy it for years to come. Cheers
While there is a lot of woofage here with the active bass towers, getting the bass to match the panels isn't there yet, and I found myself continuously reducing the output level over the session. There is a very large node at 50-60hz (I'm guessing +10db) that was distracting on electronica and I believe since my visit he's tried to ameliorate this with room treatment devices. I really think the best "upgrade" for Ron is a visit from Gary Kuo who will spend the time to configure the complicated system better (in the room itself as well as the crossover settings) and get the bass towers as close to the panels as possible. Gary also owns the BG ribbon IP iirc so intimately knows the main panel. This would cost less than a fancy cable, so it should be the first priority.
I listened to mainly digital, with a bit of tape thrown in later in the session. Tape, naturally of course, was much better. I suggested some different tubes in the Lampi as the RCAs he's using sound soft on top and aren't articulate in the bass. They are smearing piano arpeggios as well. A more objective tube like a Sylvania will be beneficial. I also feel that Ron's ultimate amps are different - the VTL is more of a hifi tube sound that combined with the BG panel, loses some of the rich harmonics, nuance, and decay that is possible. Some of that "suspension of disbelief" that Ron enjoyed when I had Jadis tubes (or even FirstWatt SIT) in my system isn't there. But candidly, I don't know how much power these speakers really require so cracking a few eggs may be necessary. I've suggested a Jadis 100 watt tube amp to start with, and if that doesn't work no SET or anything similar is even an option.
To conclude, Ron has made a lot of progress over the past few months and I look forward to hearing the system in another 6 months after he further optimizes it (and introduces a high end analog rig) - it's a SOTA system so the bar is very high, but i have utmost confidence that it matches Ron's sonic preferences very well and he will enjoy it for years to come. Cheers
You will find that people will disagree on which is synthetic and fake and which sounds real. It depends a lot on how people valuate the stereo sound reproduction artifacts. You are expressly ignoring the first part of my post.
You are mixing very different well known things and then come back to your particular subjective reference - your perception of life sound. Nothing new.
Yes, you want. Thanks for a large post avoiding my direct question. But I am even more confused now - what is "absolute sound"? The studio sound listened by the mastering engineers that we can never know what exactly was?
are the bass towers dipoles? if they´re not a dipole or ventilated solution could do the trick as they don´t excite room nodes in the same way as BR or even closed boxes
after my FLH midbass horns and horn subs got pressure balanced rear chambers...all bass problems vanished
The VTLs are really 8 different amplifiers - 4 different dampings (feedback settings) , triode or pentode.
Also, in order to get an even more "old tube sound" with them we can use another preamplifier - I use them almost exclusively with the ARC Reference Anniversary, that has a fuller balance. IMO suggesting other amplifiers is premature at this moment - it looks like a symptom of audiophilia nervosis .
I have owned more than once the very good sounding Jadis DA7 100w ampliifers - for me that can't be compared with the VTL Siegfried II. Just MO, YMMV.
Thank you very much, Keith, for these insightful and helpful comments! I really appreciate it!
Room mode: three AVAAs are in place. I am waiting for two pairs of "Resnickator" (this is what Art Noxon calls them) custom ASC TubeTraps, one pair tuned to 45Hz for the 9' ceiling side and one pair tuned to 60Hz for the 14.5' high ceiling side.
Tower positioning: I still have to do this with Jim Smith or Gary Koh -- a great idea.
Lampizator tubes: I don't hear the current tube set as soft, but then I am not evaluating it with familiar classical. If there is softness, that is probably why I can enjoy rock and pop on Baltic 4 digital these days. I assume the digital set-up has to be giving me slightly soft sound, otherwise I would not like it as much as I do.
Amplifiers: I am happy with the VTLs. But as I have often posted I would like to see what giving up Class AB wattage in favor of Class A push-pull or PSET would get me in terms of richer harmonics and nuance. Toward this end I am considering adding Jadis JA100 (with EL34s) or MastersounD PF100 Litz. The concept here is very much like MikeL's concept with the ML3. I would like to go to "all the way" to PSET, and the PF100 has interested me for quite a while.
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I think they are bipoles, not dipoles.
Why not ask VTL? The output maybe 6db less but the sensitivity of the input on the amps might be higher for single ended. They could equal out or not.
True. He has 4.5ft distance from the mid to the center of the bass tower to move the bass tower around within that circle to see if it'd clean up the 60hz. It's not nearly as much as it sounds like when you consider speaker width, but it's something. Sometimes angling the sub towers helps some even though they're omni, mostly. The pattern off them isn't 100% perfect circle.
Absolute Sound is indeed what the Mastering Engineer heard in the studio and you can replicate it by installing the same equipment/acoustics of your favourite studio in your home. But as PeterA said all studios sound different so that would be very limiting, hence better to have the sound of live music as your goal.
I just rearranged the tapes into better alphabetical order. I count 180 reels of tape.
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