Hi Ron,
Is this the same recording of Bald Mountain as on Chesky RC30?
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Is this the same recording of Bald Mountain as on Chesky RC30?
No, I do not. In fact, I have not listened to these particular pieces for some time, except perhaps at audio shows and demos. But If I wanted to listen I would probably pick my old LPs - nostalgia is also part of the hobby and I still associate Symphonie Fantastique with Reference Recordings, RR-11 - I have great memories of enjoyable moments listening to it with great people!
Ron will tell us if he asks the question. Meanwhile I suggest you research these recordings, as some people seem to be doing, if you are really curious on the subject.
Sorry, since long I am not using "explosive", impressive or Mozart music as a reference for my listening. I listened to a lot of them, Chesky RC30 is part of the Harry Pearson TAS list and sounds impressive, but if you look at opinions of people about the many versions and re-issues of this recording you will find people opinions split between them, considering them from fabulous to miserable for the same version! This seems to mean that the mastering and pressing determines the quality of the LP, not the fact that it is a miraculous analog recording.
May I suggest that you ask David (DDK) about this particular LP when he visits you?
So it actually is you who cannot refer me to a digital version you like?
I regret entertaining in good faith your line of questioning.
Hi Ron,
Is this the same recording of Bald Mountain as on Chesky RC30?
Unfortunately the link you posted is not working for me.
Don came over last night for several hours. Keith, you will be happy that he twisted my arm, and we did quite a bit of ribbon panel position experimentation.
Unlike Magnepans and MartinLogans which have a much narrower sweet spot and are quite sensitive to toe-in, this Pendragon ribbon driver seems to have much wider off axis response. When the Prodigys were in the room there's no way I could've sat on a couch 3 feet to the side of the center listening chair and had a nice time listening to music.
Neither Don nor I heard the tonal balance change from moderate toe-in to pointed dead straight ahead (no toe-in).
Don feels the ribbons are projecting a lot of energy in the upper midrange area. I agree. He thinks this is making voices and instruments in that frequency range a little bit too prominent, a little bit bright. I think I agree
We experimented with A) acoustic absorption panels on the front wall, B) Tube Traps behind the speakers, and C) absorption panels on the front wall plus Tube Traps behind the speakers.
The absorption components did take the edge off of the brightness, but we couldn't figure out if we preferred A) or B) or C).
This upper midrange brightness point may be at the point of individual, subjective preference. I think I happen to agree with Don in that I still hear a little bit of upper midrange brightness, but Phil Ressler and JimFord disagree, at least upon first hearing.
Don felt the tonal balance of the Magnepan 1.6s was perfect, but I feel intellectually, at least, if not both intellectually and personal preference-wise, that they were a little bit rolled off.
Don felt that between the original moderate toe-in position and the dead straight ahead no toe-in position the soundstage moved a little bit, but he could not tell which way he preferred the soundstage. He felt with the speakers straight ahead the soundstage was pushed a little bit back toward the front wall, but that there was no change in depth.
Don feels that the LP playback in general is a little bit brighter than the tape playback in general. That could bring us back to Phil Ressler's point that the Denon may be introducing a bit of brightness.
Unlike Magnepans and MartinLogans which have a much narrower sweet spot and are quite sensitive to toe-in, this Pendragon ribbon driver seems to have much wider off axis response. When the Prodigys were in the room there's no way I could've sat on a couch 3 feet to the side of the center listening chair and had a nice time listening to music.
Neither Don nor I heard the tonal balance change from moderate toe-in to pointed dead straight ahead (no toe-in).
Don feels the ribbons are projecting a lot of energy in the upper midrange area. I agree. He thinks this is making voices and instruments in that frequency range a little bit too prominent, a little bit bright. I think I agree
We experimented with A) acoustic absorption panels on the front wall, B) Tube Traps behind the speakers, and C) absorption panels on the front wall plus Tube Traps behind the speakers.
The absorption components did take the edge off of the brightness, but we couldn't figure out if we preferred A) or B) or C).
This upper midrange brightness point may be at the point of individual, subjective preference. I think I happen to agree with Don in that I still hear a little bit of upper midrange brightness, but Phil Ressler and JimFord disagree, at least upon first hearing.
Don felt the tonal balance of the Magnepan 1.6s was perfect, but I feel intellectually, at least, if not both intellectually and personal preference-wise, that they were a little bit rolled off.
Don felt that between the original moderate toe-in position and the dead straight ahead no toe-in position the soundstage moved a little bit, but he could not tell which way he preferred the soundstage. He felt with the speakers straight ahead the soundstage was pushed a little bit back toward the front wall, but that there was no change in depth.
Don feels that the LP playback in general is a little bit brighter than the tape playback in general. That could bring us back to Phil Ressler's point that the Denon may be introducing a bit of brightness.
Last edited:
Curious. Could it be that it's not available in the US..?
Here's a screenshot of the album on Qobuz. Maybe you can find it manually.
I think he was talking in general terms about the lack of good stereo equipment in many of his clients, Anette being the exemption.
I have no idea, he probably doesn’t have the equipment to do an all analog chain, but I can ask. On one of the pictures from his web site, there is actually a tape recorder in the background, so perhaps it is possible after all..
Can I join if you do a home recording with Anette?
Next time you feel like changing the alignment of the speakers, try repositioning the mid/tweeter panels so that they are slightly (1or 2 degrees), angled away from the listening position (ie:, toed outward). This may help to reduce the slight brightness that you are experiencing. Your center image should still be ok....perhaps even better as the rear wave will be directed to the center of the wall behind the speakers.
Cheers.....
So it actually is you who cannot refer me to a digital version you like?
Sorry Ron. As I explained I have not listened to these music recordings in digital and I am not going to spend my time researching and listening to digital versions of them to feed our discussion on digital versus analog.
My line of questioning was simple - unless we know the recordings people listen and are addressing our debates are empty. I understand your points better after learning what are your music preferences.
interesting. Thank you for the suggestion.
But if the ribbon driver is exposed and open to both the front and the back, and blocked only on the sides (the supporting structure of the tower) why would it matter which side of the driver is facing the listener?
Although dipole's aren't "quite" as sensitive to toe in as conventional enclosure based designs, the angling in ( toe in) can effect the perception of an elevated ( or reduced) treble response..... What you said makes sense, however I think you will hear a slightly different tonal balance by toeing out the mid/treble panels.... it may be minor, or perhaps not....
Cheers....
BTW, the common feedback from the Montreal audio fest last week regarding the Nagra Turntable is that it sounds not like vinyl but like master tape. Just thought I would mention as I know you asked about this TT in another thread.
Also, regarding digital - you can't really compare until you've heard the Taiko Extreme with the latest XDMS software and the new Switch/Network card. It certainly doesn't sound dry or "digital" at all.
Thank you for this report. Now that I've been spending a lot of time with tape, I am skeptical that any vinyl sounds like master tape or even safety copy tape.
The build quality of the Nagra looks impeccable, but I personally could never get comfortable with a captive tonearm situation.
I know… just repeating what I heard about feedback from the show.
The tonearm is definitely changeable. I will send you some photos. It may take someone to make an adapter but there’s no reason why it can’t be done.
Ron, you can see how the tonearm base detaches in this animation:
One could give the tonearm base to the new tonearm supplier and have them make a suitable new mount.
That’s what I would do if I wanted to change the tonearm; but I would only do it if I had to. I think if you buy the Nagra TT, you are buying into the system approach.
Also, longevity of the tonearm should not be a concern, given that it’s a unipivot — unless it’s damaged.
One could give the tonearm base to the new tonearm supplier and have them make a suitable new mount.
That’s what I would do if I wanted to change the tonearm; but I would only do it if I had to. I think if you buy the Nagra TT, you are buying into the system approach.
Also, longevity of the tonearm should not be a concern, given that it’s a unipivot — unless it’s damaged.
Surely it can't. But in my experience some turntables are better suppressing vinyl artifacts than others - I can say that for me, the TechDas AF1+ was much closer to tape than the EMT927.