Ron’s New System

[bonzo75]

I bought around 15 MoFi and Analog Production 45's , non have really impressed me, i am using original first issue 33's instead, they sound better to my ears. Especially Bob Dylan and Billy Joels catalogue have been a huge disappointment MoFi versions are just devoid of life. I have not tried the one step version, i have no more faith in these remasters, i have learned my lesson.

45 vs 33 means nothing unless it is same mastering. For classic records if you like it you will prefer 45 over 33. Analog production for classical at least is crap 45 or 33. Jazz it’s good.

Original 33s will beat most 45s.

 

[Lagonda]

I agree some say digital is too complex
but to me analog is more complex but even if you just get close enough the pay off is great.
The vinyl we’re all supposed to be the same master all Chad.
The playback was same tt arm and cart
But as you say if the grooves vary now the Styles is effected

ive night into this but the math doesn’t work out
it’s a fraction a tiny one too. do you hear anything to do this ? Curious not being rude
bra to me matters but vtf seems to have a greater impact
And it effects vta so a conundrum for me

I hear a distinct difference between thicker and thinner records, the thicker ones loosing some of the high frequency energy/information. The level is arm and cartridge dependent, my short air- bearing arm is the most sensitive, i don't use it for thick records at all. My SME 3012R with VDH Grand Crue is more forgiving of record thickness, but thinner ones are definitely my preference.

 

[morricab]

Glad I mentioned her! Obviously others are fans of Melody Gardot too.

If one is a fan of female vocalists and you haven't heard her you should. You can make your own mind up but have a listen. All of her albums are worth listening to. " Live in Europe" has a cross section of her material and is well recorded and sounds good so it would be a good place to start.

Apologies to Ron if this is not a direction he wanted this thread to go in.

Yes, the live album is very nice and if you want a "live" feeling it is recorded well enough to give it.

 

[morricab]

What’s the behaviors… ? Like ”retarded” behaviors or what?

funny head and hand motions that are sort of "artistic" I guess...just looked like she had voices in her head...

 

[PeterA]

As a guy who used to set VTA for each record, don't you think that part of the sound is simply because of the thicker record. You have probably set your cartridges for thin records, thicker ones sound a little dull, i hear the same in my setup.

I have considered that Milan. I’m playing around with the idea of mounting two identical cartridges on two identical arms, and just having different VTA, one for thick and one for thin records, but I haven’t gotten around to it yet. Right now I’m enjoying two different cartridges.

 

[hopkins]

Since Ron was listening to Diana Krall in LA here is her singing California dreaming

Here's a Diana Krall track I recorded a while ago, with the Altec 755C. One may find the track a little boring, but I think the sound is drier and captures her vocals better. The softness of her vocals in a studio setting are pretty well conveyed, IMO. I wish I had done a video with the Altec 755A, as the resolution (among other things) was even better. As I have mentioned before, the sound of the Altec 755A (single speaker, but the track has little stereo effect), on this type of track, is really special - vocals have a presence which is quite mesmerizing. Best to experience it for yourself.

This was streamed from Qobuz, by the way... Recorded in near-field (this is how I would listen to the speakers) with a Tascam recorder.

 

[Salectric]

I bought around 15 MoFi and Analog Production 45's , none have really impressed me, i am using original first issue 33's instead, they sound better to my ears. Especially Bob Dylan and Billy Joels catalogue have been a huge disappointment MoFi versions are just devoid of life. I have not tried the one step version, i have no more faith in these remasters, i have learned my lesson.

That’s been my experience as well. Original issue and early reissues nearly always sound better than current reissues whether 45 or 33.

 

[PeterA]

That’s been my experience as well. Original issue and early reissues nearly always sound better than current reissues whether 45 or 33.

Same here. Why do you think that is?

 

[Another Johnson]

funny head and hand motions that are sort of "artistic" I guess...just looked like she had voices in her head...

She does. If I were going to a “house show,” I’d want DK first, MG next … and I’d have to decide about PB when crossing that bridge.

 

[Another Johnson]

I prefer Melody Gardot's early albums because, like other singers I like, the early stuff seems the most authentic to who they are. It is a tough business and everyone must consider marketing angles and what sells to a large audience. To see the marketing pressure in action, look at the progression of the album covers. DK ends up in lingerie (not complaining and that might be good for a few million records) and MG ends up nude. My wife came by as I was considering MG's nude cover (busted). She asked if MG was wearing any clothes. I responded that she was wearing a guitar (there is a guitar in the picture). She gave me that knowing look. My wife does enjoy MG's albums as much as I do (the singing, not the necessarily the cover art).

Note that DK is accompanied by McIntosh once you get done noticing her attire on that cover.

Note that it is HIGHLY unlikely that MG is the model “wearing the guitar” on that cover.

The cover art marketing hype often makes as much money for the record company as the recording in the case of an attractive chanteuse. PB cares not … artistes have other things on their minds.

 

[Salectric]

Same here. Why do you think that is?

I have several possible explanations. In no particular order—-

1. Master tapes have deteriorated in the decades since the recordings were made. The records I listen to are mostly from the 1950s through early 1980s so the original tapes are as much as 70 years old!

2. The quality of vinyl used in pressing records may not be the same quality as 50 to 70 years ago.

3. The original recordings were made with all-tube recording gear and pressing lathes. In addition, the tube gear used carbon film resistors and good sounding capacitors, what we would now call “vintage components.”

4. The original recordings and pressings were made before the power lines were polluted with all of the RF hash that we have to live with today. Also, they were made before microwave towers, cell phones, WiFi, etc. Today we live in a soup bowl of RFI that undoubtedly has some effect on all new pressings even when the master tapes were made 70 years ago.

5. Recording engineers in the 1950s through early 1970s may have been more attuned to “natural sound” to coin a phrase than modern engineers who have grown up with multi-miking, 24-track mixers, solid state recording equipment and Yamaha studio monitors instead of Western Electric, Altec and Tannoy monitors.

I am sure there are other factors but those are the ones that pop to mind first.

 

[bonzo75]

5. Recording engineers in the 1950s through early 1970s may have been more attuned to “natural sound” to coin a phrase than modern engineers who have grown up with multi-miking, 24-track mixers, solid state recording equipment and Yamaha studio monitors instead of Western Electric, Altec and Tannoy monitors.

This is key, because ERC and others are getting master tapes and have tubed lathes, Ortofon Lyrec, neumann, etc. So apart from tape deterioration, the engineers are the key. Also why reissues were so inconsistent...BG pulled off some good ones, but others did not. Even in old Deccas if you compare matrix numbers, some engineers are better than the others.

 

[PeterA]

I have several possible explanations. In no particular order—-

1. Master tapes have deteriorated in the decades since the recordings were made. The records I listen to are mostly from the 1950s through early 1980s so the original tapes are as much as 70 years old!

2. The quality of vinyl used in pressing records may not be the same quality as 50 to 70 years ago.

3. The original recordings were made with all-tube recording gear and pressing lathes. In addition, the tube gear used carbon film resistors and good sounding capacitors, what we would now call “vintage components.”

4. The original recordings and pressings were made before the power lines were polluted with all of the RF hash that we have to live with today. Also, they were made before microwave towers, cell phones, WiFi, etc. Today we live in a soup bowl of RFI that undoubtedly has some effect on all new pressings even when the master tapes were made 70 years ago.

5. Recording engineers in the 1950s through early 1970s may have been more attuned to “natural sound” to coin a phrase than modern engineers who have grown up with multi-miking, 24-track mixers, solid state recording equipment and Yamaha studio monitors instead of Western Electric, Altec and Tannoy monitors.

I am sure there are other factors but those are the ones that pop to mind first.

Excellent post. Regarding the vinyl itself, I am thinking it is a combination of a different formulation plus the thickness.

I agree with Bonzo. A lot of it has to do with the people behind it and their values and sensibilities.

I like Melody Gardot, but do any of these modern singers compare to Ella Fitzgerald?

 

[bonzo75]

I like Melody Gardot, but do any of these modern singers compare to Ella Fitzgerald?

Lots of Ella videos in female vocal videos thread.

 

[Another Johnson]

I like Melody Gardot, but do any of these modern singers compare to Ella Fitzgerald?

Personal preference/taste.

 

[Johan K]

funny head and hand motions that are sort of "artistic" I guess...just looked like she had voices in her head...

MOOHAHAHA…. Sooo darn funny.. You must have been cracking yourself up!!!!

 

[Blue58]

I like Melody Gardot, but do any of these modern singers compare to Ella Fitzgerald?

There’s only one.

Cécile McLorin Salvant.

 

[Kingsrule]

There’s only one.

Cécile McLorin Salvant.

Heard her live when she was first arriving, maybe 5+ years ago...nothing special

 

[hopkins]

I like Melody Gardot, but do any of these modern singers compare to Ella Fitzgerald?

You are setting the bar quite high

Since you mentioned Ella, and others mentioned Cecil McLoren Salvant, here is a very interesting video (which I have already posted elsewhere, I believe), in which Salvant comments on some old tracks (part of the Savory collection) - cued up to Ella Fiztgerald's track:

Salvant's enthusiasm for these performances is really communicative. Her comments start at 20:28.

The quality of Fitzgerald's voice transpires in full glory even on these old recordings (1938 - recorded from a radio broadcast!) over YouTube played with a phone.

 

[AudioHR]

I used to be a big PB fan and saw her live in Zurich many years ago (great concert but she has weird on stage behaviors). Now, I rarely listen to her music at all.

Used to not like Melody Gardot so much, found her music too sleepy but I saw her in concert at the KKL in Luzern and was also not impressed. However, slowly, slowly, I have found her music to be very engaging; lovely voice, nice musical arrangements and while still syrupy I find it very pleasing to listen to...recording quality is also very good.

DK, I just find her faux jazz style annoying and her voice not that great...I never listen to her.

Holly Cole, great recordings (especially "Don't smoke in bed") nice vocal styling but I really only like the one album from her and this one song about the Cubans hitting the dance floor and tango til their sore.

I do like Patricia Barber and her records are really well recorded! At first I found her interpretations a little lacking in emotion but she has grown on me.

I liked Melody from the start and always enjoy listening to her. Her recording are also very well done and the songs are her own for the most part.

Diana Krall is also a favourite. Although more of an interpreter of songs she manages to make many of them distinctive and her own, In my mind she has continued to grow as an artist. " How Deep is the Ocean" becomes new again with her singing it.

It's hard not to like the energy Holly Cole can bring to a song. Listen to "Montreal Live". Again well recorded but she has many LPs and some are not as strong IMHO.

There is no denying the impressive voice of Eva Cassidy and she is also well recorded. While I do enjoy her, somehow I don't find myself listening to her often.