Ron’s New System

[orfeo_monteverdi]

I am sometimes loading the preamp with three different amplifiers in a tri-amp configuration

[please forgive my poor English]

So you have three outputs on this Incito S ?
Are the three outputs a custom-made option ? (basically, it provides one output, afaik)

---

Though not inexpensive, as of value for money, that Incito S definitely seems to be stunning.

In Lille (France), a preamp comparison has been made a few years ago by Jean Hiraga, who is a legend there as of horns and tubes. The listening session took place at one of his friends place, who is a collector. The horns speakers of Mr Hiraga were used for the comparison with three other preamps, some of them prestigious. Although Jean Hiraga usually speaks very little after a demo (does his legendary discretion come from his Japanese origins?), he said about the Incito S: "c'est fantastique !" (it's fantastic !). Coming from Jean Hiraga, it says a lot.
The friend, host of the demo, bought the Incito S the same day. Everyone that evening agreed that the Incito S was the best preamp of the comparison.
(I did not personally attend, but I have a first-hand account.)

 

[Ron Resnick]

So you have three outputs on this Incito S ?

No; two outputs but I don't think they're buffered, so effectively one output.

Are the three outputs a custom-made option ? (basically, it provides one output, afaik)

---

Though not inexpensive, as of value for money, that Incito S definitely seems to be stunning.

In Lille (France), a preamp comparison has been made a few years ago by Jean Hiraga, who is a legend there as of horns and tubes. The listening session took place at one of his friends place, who is a collector. The horns speakers of Mr Hiraga were used for the comparison with three other preamps, some of them prestigious. Although Jean Hiraga usually speaks very little after a demo (does his legendary discretion come from his Japanese origins?), he said about the Incito S: "c'est fantastique !" (it's fantastic !). Coming from Jean Hiraga, it says a lot.
The friend, host of the demo, bought the Incito S the same day. Everyone that evening agreed that the Incito S was the best preamp of the comparison.
(I did not personally attend, but I have a first-hand account.)

Cool!

 

[AudioLibertarian]

[please forgive my poor English]

So you have three outputs on this Incito S ?
Are the three outputs a custom-made option ? (basically, it provides one output, afaik)

---

Though not inexpensive, as of value for money, that Incito S definitely seems to be stunning.

In Lille (France), a preamp comparison has been made a few years ago by Jean Hiraga, who is a legend there as of horns and tubes. The listening session took place at one of his friends place, who is a collector. The horns speakers of Mr Hiraga were used for the comparison with three other preamps, some of them prestigious. Although Jean Hiraga usually speaks very little after a demo (does his legendary discretion come from his Japanese origins?), he said about the Incito S: "c'est fantastique !" (it's fantastic !). Coming from Jean Hiraga, it says a lot.
The friend, host of the demo, bought the Incito S the same day. Everyone that evening agreed that the Incito S was the best preamp of the comparison.
(I did not personally attend, but I have a first-hand account.)

What were the other preamps in that comparison may I ask?

 

[Argonaut]

Although Jean Hiraga usually speaks very little after a demo (does his legendary discretion come from his Japanese origins?), he said about the Incito S: "c'est fantastique !" (it's fantastic !). Coming from Jean Hiraga, it says a lot.

I have not heard of these intelligences before hand orfeo , most interesting … especially considering the luminance of JH .

 

[microstrip]

By structure I meant the two gain settings.

Ok, strange definition, but I now see what you mean.

Very easily. Shall I write it again?

Not needed. Please just say precisely what you mean by "inadequate gain".

 

[microstrip]

I have not heard of these intelligences before hand orfeo , most interesting … especially considering the luminance of JH .

It is reported in a french audio forum. https://www.forum-hifi.fr/thread-6752-page-10.html You can easily translate it using the google translator or similar. As stated it was a unique event.

In order to understand Jean Hiraga we must remember he listens loud and look at his playlist https://www.laudiodefrance.fr/2020/04/02/les-albums-indispensables-de-jean-hiraga/ " This is the difference between recordings intended to evaluate the possibilities of an installation and demonstration discs intended to surprise an audience with their surrealist content." (Jean Hiraga) "I often pick recordings from it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

actual audition in my system:

VTL TL-7.5 Series III

Trafomatic Lara

Hovland HP-100

Hegel P30A

Soulution 727

extensive hearsay research and triangulation discussions with people who have directly compared in their own systems Incito S to preamps on the list above and the list below:

conrad-johnson Art88

Aries Cerat Impera

Alieno preamp

Zanden Chukho

 

[morricab]

actual audition in my system:

VTL TL-7.5 Series III

Trafomatic Lara

Hovland HP-100

Hegel P30A

Soulution 727

extensive hearsay research and triangulation discussions with people who have directly compared in their own systems Incito S to preamps on the list above and the list below:

conrad-johnson Art88

Aries Cerat Impera

Alieno preamp

Zanden Chukho

What did you find qualitatively different between Incito S and something like the very expensive Soulution?

 

[AudioLibertarian]

What did you find qualitatively different between Incito S and something like the very expensive Soulution?

A question for the ages, in our hobby....

By the way is it known how many hours do tubes last in the Incito models? I believe high quality NOS ones are being used, so wonder if the unit can be left on continuously for a while (like 40-50 000 hours with some proper Telefunken, or Mullard NOS) ? Thanks !

 

[morricab]

A question for the ages, in our hobby....

By the way is it known how many hours do tubes last in the Incito models? I believe high quality NOS ones are being used, so wonder if the unit can be left on continuously for a while (like 40-50 000 hours with some proper Telefunken, or Mullard NOS) ? Thanks !

The E280F will last at least 10k hours I think and the GZ34 lasts a long time as well. I rolled my rectifier a year or so ago to improve sound but the original one was working fine still. I have the same output tubes in it since 2017 and there is no noise and no degradation in sound quality (I did briefly roll some others in to check…but just a few days).

 

[Ron Resnick]

What did you find qualitatively different between Incito S and something like the very expensive Soulution?

I had the Soulution only very briefly -- like two hours. This unit was brand spanking new right out of the box. Still, from those two hours my friend and I thought it sounded excellent. I really can't be any more specific than that. Just from this very brief visit I do feel like if somebody is considering a flagship solid-state preamp they should hear the Soulution.

At normal volume something triggered its protection circuitry and we didn't use it after that.

 

[bonzo75]

I had the Soulution only very briefly -- like two hours. This unit was brand spanking new right out of the box. Still, from those two hours my friend and I thought it sounded excellent. I really can't be any more specific than that. Just from this very brief visit I do feel like if somebody is considering a flagship solid-state preamp they should hear the Soulution.

At normal volume something triggered its protection circuitry and we didn't use it after that.

Not sure why you listed it in the audition list if you did not audition it properly. The solution preamp is fantastic when combined with valve power amps

 

[microstrip]

I had the Soulution only very briefly -- like two hours. This unit was brand spanking new right out of the box. Still, from those two hours my friend and I thought it sounded excellent. I really can't be any more specific than that. Just from this very brief visit I do feel like if somebody is considering a flagship solid-state preamp they should hear the Soulution.

Yes, IME a solid state preamplfier will need a much longer warm-up period.

At normal volume something triggered its protection circuitry and we didn't use it after that.

Well, this can be due to ultrasonic high frequency oscillations in the source equipment. In such conditions, probably preamplfiers using coupling transformers that filter them and would sound better.

 

[Holmz]

…
Well, this can be due to ultrasonic high frequency oscillations in the source equipment. In such conditions, probably preamplfiers using coupling transformers that filter them and would sound better.

RF oscillation/resonance in power amps is real and frightful thing.
I always get a bot confused as to whether it is capacitance or inductance that moves the ‘pole’ outside of the circle… but I think it is capacitance.

If the ICs are long, and more than one IC/channel, then it may be moving things in that direction.
That stuff kind of needs a real EE or skilled tech type.

 

[Alrainbow]

FWIW Dept.: the output impedance is often measured at 1KHz. Its useful though to know its output impedance at 20Hz too, especially if the preamp is driving more than one amplifier. If the preamp uses output coupling caps or an output transformer the 20Hz output impedance is likely higher at 20Hz. With coupling caps its often a multiple of the 1KHz value.

That formula I gave you for calculating the capacitor value a little while back is very useful for this situation too if you have output coupling caps (which most tube preamps do; ours is a bit of an exception as it has a direct coupled output). Let's assume that the amps all have a 100KOhm input impedance; the three of them in parallel is 33.3KOhms. You might want to plug in whatever value your amps actually have into that formula and see what the cutoff frequency is. If it is above 2Hz there will be phase shift in the audio band- up to 10x the cutoff frequency.

The 50Ohm output impedance means the preamp will not distort when driving a 5KOhm load (using the 10x rule that the source impedance be 1/10th that of the load its driving to prevent distortion). But the cutoff frequency is a variable too since that describes bass impact. Since you are using multiple amps its worth doing this math!

I truly wonder who understood the tech of your great post , not joking
My guess is some people will listen and if it don’t sound good trash the product not considering the application used

 

[Alrainbow]

Two questions
One is my Krell amps need a min of 2 hours to settle in how they sound
the idle temp is reached in less then 30 mins in the summer. The amps have there own room I can’t deal with the heat they produce
while they have new caps all done by myself they were like this always

next is I’ve noticed on some pre amps even phono pre amps gain can have an effect on tone. Matching gain helps make things sound better that’s the easy part
but tone ???
my cables are short and low capacitance
Too why does this happen
I can see why Ron picked the gain

 

[microstrip]

(...)

The 50Ohm output impedance means the preamp will not distort when driving a 5KOhm load (using the 10x rule that the source impedance be 1/10th that of the load its driving to prevent distortion). But the cutoff frequency is a variable too since that describes bass impact. Since you are using multiple amps its worth doing this math!

Very good comments on the output impedance - it is why it is why I always look at the value of the output coupling capacitors. If they are not clearly seen I measure them!

Some tube preamplifiers having less than 500 ohm output impedance will not "distort" with a 5 kohm load, but will show higher distortion with such load than with 50 or 100 kOhm. In my experience most of those I used sounded better with loads higher than 50 kOhm. Unfortunately most preamplifier reviews only show us distortion loaded with 600 Ohm and 100 kOhm.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I truly wonder who understood the tech of your great post , not joking

I think I understood it.