One more thing. In that you tube video I posted what tt/cart/arm combo is that.
Sorry, missed this question earlier. Here are specifics :
- Merrill-Scillia Research MS21 turntable ($24,000)
- Triplanar tonearm ($4000)
- Ortofon Jubilee cartridge ($2000)
One more thing. In that you tube video I posted what tt/cart/arm combo is that.
Jontathan -Did you have an aopinion on the narow sweet spot?
If only I could get Roger West of Soundlabs to come here to discuss his full range electrostatics.
Wow!
First, kudos to Roger for sharing so much detail in such a clear and edifying manner. If only more posts on audio forums carried this kind of insight and detail, our collective IQ’s would go up rather than down
As a much less capable audiophile and speaker tweaker, I can only bow before Rogers amazing experience and knowledge. But I did want to share my thoughts on some of the topics touched on here.
First, I totally concur with Rodger on the following points:
- Electronic crossovers are a must-have
- You must use enough of and the right kinds of amplification for ESL’s
o IMHO, min 200w on woofers, >800w on panels.
o Low-bass (<60Hz) separated to correctly located subs with own amplification.
It took me the better part of decade to arrive at these conclusions as well; I only wish I had been able to read more of Roger’s writing before then, it would have saved me some time.
On power amplification topologies and specs for ESL’s, Roger is spot on, his amp designs are the best for ESL’s. I have a loooong wish-list of his amps (about 8 of them) that I plan to upgrade my system with. I often wonder why more ESL owners don’t rush to buy these, they are notably superior to pretty much anything else out there on ESL’s.
On hybrid ESL design and trade-offs, I also concur that a full-range electrostat is just too compromised to ever be a viable solution (at least for me). One can achieve pretty seamless integration of Stat and dynamics if using the correct tools (DSP-based speaker processors and bi-amping).
I agree with Rodger on the TL being a much more benign and useful alignment than sealed or vented for a single woofer. And for low-bass, I highly recommend the infinite-baffle alignment (with truly large rear-wave cavity) as being the perfect match to an ESL, as an IB sub has vanishingly low distortion with incredible air movement capability.
Also, I’d suggest that another option for mating dynamic drivers to ESL’s is to look at line-arrays. I did this with my custom center channel, matting a 4’ line array of Adire Extremis drivers with a MartinLogan SL3 panel. From a dispersion characteristic as well as sheer dynamic mid-bass power, this has been a big success. For one, because as a line source, the mid-bass has an SPL decay characteristic that closely matches that of the line-source ESL.
Again, excellent postings Roger and Angela, please keep it up.
- Jonathan
I believe that I heard this iteration of the Sanders at THE Show in 2009, but I am not sure that it is the same as what HP reviewed. However, I will say that what I heard impressed me greatly, as it did for Marty, although he was not quite as excited as I was. I have been a long-term electrostat fan because of the "nature" of their sound, even though I suspect that this "nature" is not necessarily the truest sound out there. Let me make my bias completely clear- I like this sound because it pleases me, not because it is necessarily the truest. Despite the fact that I owned a set of Wisdom M-75 Limited Edition References (hand picked for response), I must admit that I liked the stat personality better.
Given my bias, I found the Sanders to be among the best sounding stats and least obvious hybrids I have heard yet, and therefore liked them a lot. There is little doubt that they are highly directional and thus you must sit in the sweet spot to get the best results. Granted you can change the angles of the speakers or the size of equilateral triangle as HP says to change the image, but this is still a very socially unfriendly speaker due to a very small sweet spot.
Back in the days when I had an A grade system and room, my friends would joke that there should be a jig like one used for brain surgery in the "correct" position at the sweet spot. I even provided pillows to raise the head height of vertically challenged listeners. They were right and when you had your head in "the spot" magical things happened. Listening with my family was not one of them. When audiophiles came over, we took turns listening and when it was not our turn, we stood and observed the chosen one.
Maybe I am getting old, but this longer works for me. I like people more than my sound system. Yeah, I still choose the correct 3-4 seats in a 500-2000 seat theater when I go to a movie or concert because it is an event and usually there are two adjacent seats that qualify, thus allowing me to be happy in my selfishness for two hours. However, I live with my sound system and listen to music, watch TV and movies with it. I want it to disappear and I want ALL of my company to enjoy the experience.
Simple physics and acoustics clearly demonstrates that for a sound to sound real and thus believable (meaning my brain interprets it as real) the sound wave must START in a phase coherent manner, because that is the way sounds occur in the real world. Through triangulation and parallax of the signals obtained at your ears and eyes, your brain determines its position and you are satisfied that the sound is real and located at a specific position. When the sounds bounce off of environmental obstacles, your brain is able to use this information (phase alterations and time delays) to help understand the environment, thus maintaining the live aspects of the sound. The reason why I enjoy listening to my very phase coherent BG speakers on my deck after the sound winds its way through windows and sliders is because it started out initially extremely phase coherent and thus still sounds real as it emanates from my windows and doors, much like the voice of someone talking standing next to my speakers when I am hearing it from my deck. The difference is I believe that they and the music are in my living room and I am hearing it on my deck. Still quite pleasing since as a non-psychotic person, that was all I expected in the first place.
So unless you are lone listener with a system and environment with a vice-like sweet spot, regardless of how good these speakers are you have to determine your priorities versus other aspects of life.
Jonathan -Did you have an opinion on the narrow sweet spot?
Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |