SET amp owners thread

[awsmone]

Can you please explain how, from reading 2 watts or 20 watts, you can make out how the amp will move a tough to drive woofer? Your loudness will match your gain, and that will depend on rest of the component synergy.

That’s is actually not my observation Ked please reread my post
I said based on dB there is little difference, a factual observation

the ”why” was not something I made any mention of, as it relates to experience of Amps, in fact my observation was intended to be ironic ie little difference technically but major impact ( so irony was it seems apparently missed by you )

I now appreciate you appear to have little understanding of the difference between actual “facts” and personal experience

I hope mine and Thomas M feedback will give you in your own words “ data points” to review some of your post direction

I should add, much ie very much of your contributions are very very helpful to me , this is in a large posting review a minor issue

 

[bonzo75]

That’s is actually not my observation Ked please reread my post
I said based on dB there is little difference, a factual observation

Sorry Andrew, I still don't get how, without reading up requirements of damping for the speaker, and knowing damping factors of each amp, one can make an assessment of which amp is suited (just by observation). From just observing gain, power, etc, you cannot.

 

[awsmone]

Sorry Andrew, I still don't get how, without reading up requirements of damping for the speaker, and knowing damping factors of each amp, one can make an assessment of which amp is suited (just by observation). From just observing gain, power, etc, you cannot.

Totally agree , it’s a bit weird , hence my ironic observation , I have experienced low power amps with so much “balls” ( that’s a technical measurement by the way …. You may not have come across ) , I have low powered ss Amps with incredible bass performance so yes it’s not about Watt/dB in any way as in dB term their output cannot explain their disparate observable responses , ( ps to objectivist out there, observable, documentable experience is an observation in science )

 

[bonzo75]

so yes it’s not about Watt/dB in any way as in dB term their output cannot explain their disparate observable responses ,

Ok fine now I get how you were being ironic then I totally misunderstood your original post. Now we are aligned.

 

[awsmone]

Super cool ! Ked
I appreciate your apology , which in retrospect was based on a contextual misunderstanding I now appreciate ( and can happen in”parsed ‘ online comments )
not many are as intellectually honest as you apologising ( though the “crime’ : was really just ironic awareness)

no offence taken
apology humbly accepted

and finally , much of your opinion is the same as mine
take care

 

[awsmone]

It would seem following on from many posts, that careful consideration of the amplifier / speaker compatibility is paramount

that , the priorisation of what those compatibilities should be individually prioritised at an end user level

that technical specifications provide a minimalistic guide of incompatibly , but much less of compatability

that members experiences may act as a guide, but issues of perceptual priorities must be considered between experienced and “newbie” end users

 

[christoph]

Lamm M1.2 Reference monoblocks and Lamm LL2.1 preamplifier in the DeLuxe versionView attachment 105308

Very nice but no SET
The M1.x are hybrids

 

[jeff1225]

In terms of dB they are actually in the same play pen, not like 1000 watts !

Please explain.

 

[jeff1225]

Ok fine now I get how you were being ironic then I totally misunderstood your original post. Now we are aligned.

You’re being too kind.

 

[awsmone]

Please explain.

There are a number of watts to dB online calculators , I suggest you input several SET watt output you are familiar with and the lamm output and review the results in dB

 

[cat6man]

It would seem following on from many posts, that careful consideration of the amplifier / speaker compatibility is paramount

synergy is where god resides, at least in my experience.
if i can drag folks back to my posts a few months ago regarding my first SET experience, i have an update
and would appreciate any further thoughts you might have.

i have Nola Metro Grand Reference speakers that i love. intrigued by accounts of SET and views of heaven, i bought a pair of Viva Aurora 845/211 monoblocks, nominally 30watts. i had thought (hoped?) that since Ayon Triton monoblocks with 60watts triode power sounded fine, i should (might?) be ok with 30watt SET amps................nope! while the midrange was beautiful, it never opened up a soundstage or showed any depth and required my pre-amp volume control to be set pretty high.

so, i put them (sadly) up for sale.

this weekend, i went to canjam in NYC and met Oz, who among other things sells Viva amplifiers and whose 2 Viva headphone amplifiers sounded sublime with both dynamic (Meze Elite) and electrostatic headphones. this led to a discussion and his feeling that the Aurora's should be fine with my Nola speakers, perhaps something in my system was off, etc.
this led to wonder if the problem might be the low output from my TotalDAC d1-direct which eschews higher output levels and outputs a peak of 1.7volts. this popped into my head as i am about to send it back to Vincent Brient in France to update my DAC to the new TotalDAC d1-triunity, which is reported (by folks whose ears i trust, including Vincent's) to be a major step up in sound quality and provides 7.5volts out in balanced mode. since this will give me about 12dB, i have taken the Viva amplifiers off the market and am looking to give them another shot after my DAC is upgraded next month.

any thoughts on whether i should be optimistic or pessimistic here?

thanks

 

[Solypsa]

1.7v isn't exactly low but hey whatever it takes to get an amp to full throttle needs to be respected. This is a number often overlooked.

 

[jeff1225]

There are a number of watts to dB online calculators , I suggest you input several SET watt output you are familiar with and the lamm output and review the results in dB

So this calculator will show me that a 3.5 watt 2A3 SET amp will have the same dB as an 18 watt amp. Why don't work it out for us on one of these aps and post it?

It's funny how when I have my 1.5 watt 45 amp installed my listing position on my preamp is 6 clicks higher than when my 8 watt 300b amp is installed.

I guess I'm doing it wrong.

 

[morricab]

So this calculator will show me that a 3.5 watt 2A3 SET amp will have the same dB as an 18 watt amp. Why don't work it out for us on one of these aps and post it?

It's funny how when I have my 1.5 watt 45 amp installed my listing position on my preamp is 6 clicks higher than when my 8 watt 300b amp is installed.

I guess I'm doing it wrong.

The higher preamp setting is due to differences in the gain between the amps , not output power.

 

[morricab]

So this calculator will show me that a 3.5 watt 2A3 SET amp will have the same dB as an 18 watt amp. Why don't work it out for us on one of these aps and post it?

It's funny how when I have my 1.5 watt 45 amp installed my listing position on my preamp is 6 clicks higher than when my 8 watt 300b amp is installed.

I guess I'm doing it wrong.

3.5 to 18 is about 5x more power. Every 3dB requires double the power. So the 18 watt amp would play about 7dB louder. If your speakers are 100dB/watt then 3.5 watts will get you about 105dB and 18 watts around 112dB…will you be playing close to this loud to notice this? For me at least I am never close to these levels and for all practical purposes the power is not relevant as I would be using mW most of the time.

 

[DasguteOhr]

The real problem is that set amps don't cope well with fluctuating speaker impedances. the sound is loved by many because the set amp delivers more voltage at higher impedances, making things appear fresher and livelier. if you use large outputtransformer+ speaker cables with a minimum of 4qmm and rcl on your speaker helps to get higher dampingfactor. then you first hear the amplifier not the mixture of speaker and amplifier unfortunately then set amps lose a little of their magic.
That's why some pages before wrote that you don't necessarily need triodes to listen to music in a similar way. a push-pull amplifier with adjusted negative feedback for loudspeakers sounds excellent.

 

[jeff1225]

3.5 to 18 is about 5x more power. Every 3dB requires double the power. So the 18 watt amp would play about 7dB louder. If your speakers are 100dB/watt then 3.5 watts will get you about 105dB and 18 watts around 112dB…will you be playing close to this loud to notice this? For me at least I am never close to these levels and for all practical purposes the power is not relevant as I would be using mW most of the time.

Amir has seemed to dropped off the thread. I asked him what amps and what speakers and he disappeared. If they were comparing 2A3 SET amps to the Lamms on 8 ohm speakers than all bets are off.

 

[morricab]

Amir has seemed to dropped off the thread. I asked him what amps and what speakers and he disappeared. If they were comparing 2A3 SET amps to the Lamms on 8 ohm speakers than all bets are off.

I just got a 2A3 amp from Silvercore and at levels I listen it was doing pretty darn good on my 8ohm 97dB Odeons. Damn thing is about 10kg per watt

 

[jeff1225]

I just got a 2A3 amp from Silvercore and at levels I listen it was doing pretty darn good on my 8ohm 97dB Odeons. Damn thing is about 10kg per watt

Fantastic, do you have a picture of the amp?

 

[awsmone]

So this calculator will show me that a 3.5 watt 2A3 SET amp will have the same dB as an 18 watt amp. Why don't work it out for us on one of these aps and post it?

It's funny how when I have my 1.5 watt 45 amp installed my listing position on my preamp is 6 clicks higher than when my 8 watt 300b amp is installed.

I guess I'm doing it wrong.

Maybe you misunderstood my post “ play pen” = ball park , not “equal“, and as I said above it was “ironic”

a good post above is

“3.5 to 18 is about 5x more power. Every 3dB requires double the power. So the 18 watt amp would play about 7dB louder. If your speakers are 100dB/watt then 3.5 watts will get you about 105dB and 18 watts around 112dB…will you be playing close to this loud to notice this? For me at least I am never close to these levels and for all practical purposes the power is not relevant as I would be using mW most of the time”