SET amp owners thread

[213Cobra]

Thank you. Yes I believe my amp is designed for use with the EML 300BXLS. It puts out 60 watts using xls tubes and 50 without. The manual says, however, that the amp can be run using any 300B.

The manual:
http://www.allnicaudiousa.com/manuals/Allnic A-6000.pdf

From the manual:
"50 watts of pure class A high power output. The A-6000 is a double parallel single ended power amplifier. Almost all other 300B amplifiers are under, and distortion, driven. This is a result of the use of conventional "Resister-Capacitor" circuits, which give only up to around a 70V swing voltage, with high distortion. This means that an already distorted signal of a lower than optimum swing voltage is directed to the deep biased 300B grid. Allnic’s powerful "Inductor Drive" circuit gives up to a 150V swing voltage, with very low distortion (about 0.3%). It is this drive delivered to the A-6000 that allows for a significantly higher output (50w) than the approximately 27 w output that could be expected from standard 300B circuits."

"You may use any 300B type tube in the A-6000, including the newer higher voltage varieties."

Oh, yes. The Allnic. It's an unusual case not covered by my response earlier. DPSET with large swing voltage and fixed bias gives you that freedom to use any 300B and get a juiced up sound out of even the standard B. Just remember to reset the bias when you step up to the XLS. I haven't heard that particular Allnic. With four XLS tubes producing just a rated 60w, it should sound disproportionately muscular. I'd expect the dynamic difference will sound subjectively greater than the 10w rated difference suggests.

Phil

 

[213Cobra]

Why is that? The amp comes with standard EH 300Bs.

I didn't know you were referring to the Allnic when I wrote that. There are some XLS-specific amps that with a std 300B would have the wrong bias and B+ voltage. -Phil

 

[Solypsa]

... I have also had a couple email with Thomas Mayer about his 6CB5A. I gather 8 watts is a lot more than 2.5 watts. But I know so little about Mayer and what you really get. Decware amps seem to sell quick with not to much loss if its just not the correct fit.

There is a system here in Seattle running Mayer 300b with PAP.

 

[Exlibris]

I didn't know you were referring to the Allnic when I wrote that. There are some XLS-specific amps that with a std 300B would have the wrong bias and B+ voltage. -Phil

So knowing it's the Allnic, would you recommend the 300B XLS? My hesitancy around anything with an XLS in it is that I didn't like the EML 300B XLS that came with my old Mastersound 300B monoblocks. I liked the Sophia mesh plates much better in that particular amp.

 

[213Cobra]

So knowing it's the Allnic, would you recommend the 300B XLS? My hesitancy around anything with an XLS in it is that I didn't like the EML 300B XLS that came with my old Mastersound 300B monoblocks. I liked the Sophia mesh plates much better in that particular amp.

Yeah, I didn't like the EML 300BXLS in anything I heard them in, either. But the EML doesn't have the KR's voice in clarity, definition, spatial projection and bass discipline. The KR 300B Balloon cleans up any 300B amp you put it in, even the $499 Chinese no-name specials on eBay. I don't know enough about your preferences so I'll just frame it this way. If shove, slam and more explosive dynamics are valued over less, and you want a more scintillating top end, you will love the KR XLS. If you tilt to nuance over ultimate aliveness, you will love the KR 300B. Regardless where you fall in that choice you will like the other just fine. I would try the XLS in that amp. DPSET is very unusual, as is Allnic's 150v voltage swing. You can always sell the tubes if you aren't favorably impressed.

Phil

 

[Kingrex]

There is a system here in Seattle running Mayer 300b with PAP.

Have you heard it?

 

[Exlibris]

Yeah, I didn't like the EML 300BXLS in anything I heard them in, either. But the EML doesn't have the KR's voice in clarity, definition, spatial projection and bass discipline. The KR 300B Balloon cleans up any 300B amp you put it in, even the $499 Chinese no-name specials on eBay. I don't know enough about your preferences so I'll just frame it this way. If shove, slam and more explosive dynamics are valued over less, and you want a more scintillating top end, you will love the KR XLS. If you tilt to nuance over ultimate aliveness, you will love the KR 300B. Regardless where you fall in that choice you will like the other just fine. I would try the XLS in that amp. DPSET is very unusual, as is Allnic's 150v voltage swing. You can always sell the tubes if you aren't favorably impressed.

Phil

This helps a great deal. I really appreciate the information and hearing your take on things. Thank you.

 

[Solypsa]

Yes.

I rate the Mayer gear highly. I would say my personal perspective is that 15w would be better (300bxls)

 

[morricab]

Thank you. Yes I believe my amp is designed for use with the EML 300BXLS. It puts out 60 watts using xls tubes and 50 without. The manual says, however, that the amp can be run using any 300B.

The manual:
http://www.allnicaudiousa.com/manuals/Allnic A-6000.pdf

From the manual:
"50 watts of pure class A high power output. The A-6000 is a double parallel single ended power amplifier. Almost all other 300B amplifiers are under, and distortion, driven. This is a result of the use of conventional "Resister-Capacitor" circuits, which give only up to around a 70V swing voltage, with high distortion. This means that an already distorted signal of a lower than optimum swing voltage is directed to the deep biased 300B grid. Allnic’s powerful "Inductor Drive" circuit gives up to a 150V swing voltage, with very low distortion (about 0.3%). It is this drive delivered to the A-6000 that allows for a significantly higher output (50w) than the approximately 27 w output that could be expected from standard 300B circuits."

"You may use any 300B type tube in the A-6000, including the newer higher voltage varieties."

I haven't used the 300BXLS but I have owned the Ayon Crossfire III, which uses the Ayon 62B. The 62B is an evolution of the 52B, which was a Vaic design as was the 300BXLS. I am not sure, but I believe they come from the same basic evolutionary tree...a super 300B designed by Mr. Vaic because he used to work with Dr. Kron (KR Enterprise, later KR Audio) and then started Vaic audio, which was then bought by Gerhard Hirt and became Ayon. The 62B is a great sounding power tube, a bit more of that 300B "magic" with most of the power and drive of a big bottle 845 or 211. Interesting tubes and would probably give your Allnic a kick.

 

[Exlibris]

I haven't used the 300BXLS but I have owned the Ayon Crossfire III, which uses the Ayon 62B. The 62B is an evolution of the 52B, which was a Vaic design as was the 300BXLS. I am not sure, but I believe they come from the same basic evolutionary tree...a super 300B designed by Mr. Vaic because he used to work with Dr. Kron (KR Enterprise, later KR Audio) and then started Vaic audio, which was then bought by Gerhard Hirt and became Ayon. The 62B is a great sounding power tube, a bit more of that 300B "magic" with most of the power and drive of a big bottle 845 or 211. Interesting tubes and would probably give your Allnic a kick.

That's very interesting. I didn't know of any drop-in replacements for the 300B. A quick search turned up some information but I couldn't find pricing.

 

[Joao@altheamusica]

I haven't used the 300BXLS but I have owned the Ayon Crossfire III, which uses the Ayon 62B. The 62B is an evolution of the 52B, which was a Vaic design as was the 300BXLS. I am not sure, but I believe they come from the same basic evolutionary tree...a super 300B designed by Mr. Vaic because he used to work with Dr. Kron (KR Enterprise, later KR Audio) and then started Vaic audio, which was then bought by Gerhard Hirt and became Ayon. The 62B is a great sounding power tube, a bit more of that 300B "magic" with most of the power and drive of a big bottle 845 or 211. Interesting tubes and would probably give your Allnic a kick.

Please let me make one correction:
Alesa Vaic and Dr. Kron began her partnership with Vaic Valve (based in North Italy & Prague. Then the rest of the story... EML (EmissionLabs) started as well with Alesa Vaic and then they went her own way, like KR Audio / KR Enterprise (Eunice Kron). But the design of all that tubes wnet back to Alesa Vaic....
Thank you for your detailed description

 

[Kingrex]

I agree. Relying on your interconnects for safety ground may not work.

Differences in sound as a result of grounding can be minimized by decreasing resistance between component grounds. Using multiple AC lines can often be a source of problems here.

Cheating grounds results in a few hundred electrocutions each year. More fires than electrocution. Seems a fault passes through the interconnect ground which is significantly smaller in gauge than the power feed wire. The result is the interconnects turns white hot, melts the casing and lights on fire.

Oddly a friend and I have found adding a second circuit dedicated for amps decreased noise and increased space and sound stage. Not sure why yet. In my situation I had one circuit of OFC cord to a power strip with 8 outlets in it. I was getting varied hum and noise on and off in the day and night. Sometimes it was so loud, when the stereo was muted and the TV on, the noise was bothersome to listen to the TV. Since the second circuit, the noise is at a very constant low level. I have inhernet noise due to an amp flaw. If I did not have the amp flaw, it would be silent now.

Let me throw a kicker. 8 months ago I tried bringing 2 additional dedicated runs of 10 AWG NMB from my panel right to my amps. I put a cord cap on the end of the wire and fed my amps. I gained no sonic advantage. I still had noise and did not notice any other benefits. My panel is in the basement below my audio room about 10 feet to the side. In the current much better configuration I have a 1/2" steel conduit with 3x10awg thwn stranded conductors in the pipe. I have wire nutted my power cables to the thwn. Yea, I'm crazy. In this configuration the sonic advantages are absolutely apparant. Everything is better.

My friend is somewhat similar. I installed a SqD QO copper sub panel on the back wall of his audio room. He is using 2 runs of OFC copper cord to his distribution strips. The similarity being a good cord, such as I have to my power strip. He is cord on both circuits. I am cord on one and metal pipe on the other.

Still, we are finding 2 circuits superior to one. I am considering adding a 3rd to separate my preamps from my digital.

Technically I already have 3 circuits as my modem, router and switch linear PS are fed by an OFC cord to a power strip.

 

[morricab]

Please let me make one correction:
Alesa Vaic and Dr. Kron began her partnership with Vaic Valve (based in North Italy & Prague. Then the rest of the story... EML (EmissionLabs) started as well with Alesa Vaic and then they went her own way, like KR Audio / KR Enterprise (Eunice Kron). But the design of all that tubes wnet back to Alesa Vaic....
Thank you for your detailed description

Yes, I failed to mention EML is descended from this family as well.

 

[DaveC]

Cheating grounds results in a few hundred electrocutions each year. More fires than electrocution. Seems a fault passes through the interconnect ground which is significantly smaller in gauge than the power feed wire. The result is the interconnects turns white hot, melts the casing and lights on fire.

Oddly a friend and I have found adding a second circuit dedicated for amps decreased noise and increased space and sound stage. Not sure why yet. In my situation I had one circuit of OFC cord to a power strip with 8 outlets in it. I was getting varied hum and noise on and off in the day and night. Sometimes it was so loud, when the stereo was muted and the TV on, the noise was bothersome to listen to the TV. Since the second circuit, the noise is at a very constant low level. I have inhernet noise due to an amp flaw. If I did not have the amp flaw, it would be silent now.

Let me throw a kicker. 8 months ago I tried bringing 2 additional dedicated runs of 10 AWG NMB from my panel right to my amps. I put a cord cap on the end of the wire and fed my amps. I gained no sonic advantage. I still had noise and did not notice any other benefits. My panel is in the basement below my audio room about 10 feet to the side. In the current much better configuration I have a 1/2" steel conduit with 3x10awg thwn stranded conductors in the pipe. I have wire nutted my power cables to the thwn. Yea, I'm crazy. In this configuration the sonic advantages are absolutely apparant. Everything is better.

My friend is somewhat similar. I installed a SqD QO copper sub panel on the back wall of his audio room. He is using 2 runs of OFC copper cord to his distribution strips. The similarity being a good cord, such as I have to my power strip. He is cord on both circuits. I am cord on one and metal pipe on the other.

Still, we are finding 2 circuits superior to one. I am considering adding a 3rd to separate my preamps from my digital.

Technically I already have 3 circuits as my modem, router and switch linear PS are fed by an OFC cord to a power strip.

Thanks for the report!

I'd agree that multiple lines can often be better, more instantaneous current capability... as long as proper grounding is maintained via a subpanel close to the system or other means. I think if noise decreased the grounding likely improved somewhere, usually this is the opposite when adding lines but I could see improving things as well.

 

[Kingrex]

I have heard rhe Found Music Blade amp in silver a few times on Daedalus speakers. I have an idea what sound it gives. What do I gain or loose wirh a more true set amp on my PAP trio 15 horn. Below is a snip about the amp.

The Blade is a pentode amp, run in Single Ended Ultra Linear Push Pull. 28 watts with normal line input. A mouthful!

SET is Single Ended Triode, which I have made many of in the form of 45 and 2A3 amps. The Blade was a departure from this, and gave superior results to the SET in many ways for multi driver speakers and for speakers of lower efficiency.

 

[bonzo75]

45 and 2a3 should not be used on Daedalus. These kind of valves have to be very carefully matched to speakers or many higher powered amps will eventually sound better. I heard the found music with Daedulus at jazzdoc's, btw

 

[Kingrex]

As I at Jazdocs 6 or 7 times. I get the amp. Scott has one of his copper versions and thinks it wil pair well with my PAP trio 15. Just wondering what you think of the amp compared to some of the 20 watt or so bigger glass amps. Does it come close with musical beauty, body, texture and tone.. Or is it leaning more to the precise, analytical yet still pretty sound.

 

[Walnut Horns]

I used to own Daedalus Ulysses. While a fine sounding speaker, I think its efficiency is overstated. I used Pure Sound 845 monos which worked well, but a low wattage SET would not be appropriate.

 

[bonzo75]

For such speakers I prefer more headroom, like Kronzilla or Jadis or Allnic A6000. In slightly lower watt SETs Lamms and Silvercore 833c (20w, easy budget) seem to have good drive. I am now looking at sub-7w category with maximum pushpull being 12w EL84 or a parallel 2a3.

 

[Tuckia]

Speaking of Daedalus again, I have now sold two of my amps and the third one may soon be gone. That would leave me with approximately zero amps. However, next week I receive a pair of Allnic M2500 in PX25 flavor to audition. (20W p-p). Maybe these are too new for anyone to have familiarity. But with the pressure now on, the choices in front of me are these demo Allnics, the Allnic M311 SET in PX25 or 300b (7.5W and 10W respectively), and Lamm ML2.X variations - from the used market. My outgoing LTA was 18W and didn't have any problem driving the Daedalus in my 1100sf (9350 cu. ft.) listening room for what I do. If anyone out there has thoughts on these or other options, please chime in or PM me.
Thanks