SET amp owners thread
- Thread starter bonzo75
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Hi Morricab,
Interesting comment. How do you assess the sound of Piega? At US shows, they seem to have a very open, non-box sound and may be driven by lower powered tube amps from Air Tight, but not SET. Can you please elaborate that they are "too obsessed with a flat frequency response"? I'm interpreting that you take this is a negative and possibly incompatible with SET. Can you please elaborate? TU
P.S. Piega seems to have no traction in the US and seem to have changed distributors.
If nothing else it’s A LOT of amp for that money...49kg for a 6c33 SET is heavy. An Ayon Spark III, for example is around 30kg. Made in Vietnam and is good looking...wonder about how good the design and parts really are but for that money possibly worth the risk!
Open, yes; however they have a tendency to lean towards and analytical sound with everything but tubes. One problem is that they measure essentially flat to 20khz and in room this is too hot. This is part of what I mean by obsessed with FR. Also, padding down to 90db or so will allow you to use flatter measuring woofers to mate with this planar but isn’t great for dynamics, which the driver could excel at. With good amps though the resolution and micro dynamics are good without too much sizzle. Macro dynamics are impacted by woofers and by all the power loss in their crossover.
No, the one you were showing...the Landingaudio is made in Vietnam. The Ayon Spark is either made in Austria or China (their lower models are made there).
Thanks. Would you agree that Piega ribbon drivers are as good as it gets in high-end or is it just marketing B.S.?
Also, can you please share how crossovers result in power loss? I have heard this a number of times in the marketing context. Really appreciate your expertise.
They are good, just how good is hard to say in the context in which they are used. One possible drawback is that being planar magnetic rather than true ribbons, they are constrained on all sides and this can create modes and resonances that can negatively impact the sound. I never felt they were as transparent as the best true ribbons or best high sensitivity horns but this again could be more crossover than anything to do with the driver.
As to power loss, well if you have a 104 db driver that is brought down to 90db by a crossover that is quite a bit of added resistance to reduce the level. This means power is being dissipated through those resistors and not reaching the driver. Reactive elements, such as capacitors and inductors, also incur losses some of which are frequency dependent (their job in the crossover) and some not. This part of the reason a speaker directly connected to the amp has a more "live" character, which can even be heard with normal drivers of average sensitivity. A truly active system with no passive elements, assuming a REALLY good active xover (hard to find that I can tell you from my trials) will beat a passive every time...all else being equal and dynamics is a big part of it because you don't have the crossover losses anymore.
I decided to join the club. Very happy so far. A little more grounding to get figured out. So far a good bump in performace over my Pentode KT PP amps. Much more quiet. Full of tone and much faster. Leading edges of stand up bass and piano are owe so quick. And the body is more fleshed out and real.
One major issue that I see from the pictures is that it only has one input.
https://lansingaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/hinh-gep-6c33c.jpg
My mistake, sorry.
I had Amprerex 845 in mind, and asked about 211.
But as you said, PSVane are in.
I put together some initial impressions. I cant help myself. Here goes.
Some initial impressions. Fast, great high end extension. Fully fleshed out midrange, fast bass. Well rounded and full bass.
More about bass as this is where I hear the real difference. Black Shadow SET Seems to have a fast bass. It’s quick to start and builds to a well rounded bloom. KT PP on the other hand is not as fast off the line. It’s not quite as full. But it’s more solid. It has a harder foundation. The KT PP builds to a more solid punch and control. The BS SET on the other hand might start a tad quicker to the note, but it does not grab with as much authority. It does not have quite the thrust and punch. It has more richness/harmony.
The soundstage stands out. Wider and taller. The speakers hid more. Less attention is paid to the drivers. I have not added as much as I should here. Maybe intentionally. Soundstage is so very affected by your room and how well you set up your speakers. Let me just say, it’s about the best I remember hearing in my system. If I spent more time with my speakers which are far from optimum with all the other stuff I have been into, they would soundstage much different. But I can say the foundation these amps are coming from is excellent.
Midrange. This is where everyone talks about SET magic. Tonally its damb good. With Diana Krall on digital, Mojo Audio equipment, to the greatest extent so far I hear a Gibson ES335 played through a Roland JC120. The instruments and vocals are very clean and full of body. But not too much. Some may say its bloom and feel a KT PP is more linear and even. That may be the case. The SET owner will need to like an enveloping rich sound. A more relaxed fat body.
On Pink Marti Get Happy vinyl with the STST Motus II/Hana/Allnic the violins on Yo te Quiero Siempre are to die for. Generally this is a nice piece of vinyl. Not the best. It sounds quite nice. There is a little more to it now. It seems to have fluidity to it. More so than what I noticed with the KT PP amp.
Another point related to midrange. Clarity is unreal. These are revealing amps in the midrange right up through a very extended top end. Even with all the body, the clarity is superb. It’s not fatiguing. It’s very revealing. This is to a detriment with not as good a vinyl. Any surface noise is exposed. Surface noise on one of my favorite Classical albums that is from the 70 was immediately apparent. Much more so than with the KT PP.
Volume Control. These amps are version 1 original. They have silver wiring with copper transformers. The Power Supply was upgraded with better caps. The grounding was improved upon. Additional shielding was applied to the transformers. In all, they were predecessors to the updated Version II. These are not 100% of the version II, but they are close. Anyhow, volume control. All these Amps have a pot on the front. You can have an upgraded Alps installed. I don’t know why you would use a pot. Maybe because they can be used as a single source integrated amp. The volume goes from 0 to explosive wide open. But, no matter how you slice it, a Pot is not a great device to pass a signal through. If using a preamp with these amps such as I am, the first modification I would make would be to get rid of the pot and have a ladder installed with maybe 4 excellent resistors. It will show its happy spot real fast. Too low and it’s a little flat. To high and it gets overdriven and bright. I figure 4 points of attenuation would allow for a very quiet play, 2 for perfect mid volume play and another for wide open cranking the tune.
Cranking the Tunes. KT PP have the advantage. The grip and control of the PP stands out. Its not that the SET at maybe high 80, low 90s db are clipping or compressing. More the KT PP have overhead and grip of the drivers. They control my PAP Trio 15 Horn (2 x 15” woofers and a horn mid/high) much better. But contol is not everything. KT PP doesn’t have as much of that body I talked about earlier. They are more muscular and slim. Like a hard bodied sports woman. The SET is more a beautiful 30 year old with fresh rounded curves. It’s hard to not stop and stare.
Well, is it a perfect amp. No. But then again I have not found a perfect amp yet. Fortunately for me, I probably play music more around the 70 to 80 db range. I have been told I have my volume around where engineers listen in the mixing room. Because of this, I don’t really get to that point where you start to notice the KT PP amp is pulling ahead with its overhead and ease of control. If I always played pretty loud, I would probably go looking for something that has as much body as I can find with power. My gut says this will be a 3 to 5 year amp for me. I will probably have someone measure the happy spots on my potentiometer and replace them with either one resistor or maybe a ladder with 4 or so steps.
Note, these impressions are with a couple Russian input and driver tubes with Psvane premium select cryogenic grade 845 tubes. They also come with 4 sets of Shuguang 845. The Shunguang are all different varietals to choose from. It will be interesting to see how these shape the sound over time. I also have some amazing Telefunkin E88CC tubes in my stash. Tubes are going to shape the sound. I was even provided a thorough review of how each 845 affects the overall playback. A good way to start with moving in directions that I may want to explore.
Some initial impressions. Fast, great high end extension. Fully fleshed out midrange, fast bass. Well rounded and full bass.
More about bass as this is where I hear the real difference. Black Shadow SET Seems to have a fast bass. It’s quick to start and builds to a well rounded bloom. KT PP on the other hand is not as fast off the line. It’s not quite as full. But it’s more solid. It has a harder foundation. The KT PP builds to a more solid punch and control. The BS SET on the other hand might start a tad quicker to the note, but it does not grab with as much authority. It does not have quite the thrust and punch. It has more richness/harmony.
The soundstage stands out. Wider and taller. The speakers hid more. Less attention is paid to the drivers. I have not added as much as I should here. Maybe intentionally. Soundstage is so very affected by your room and how well you set up your speakers. Let me just say, it’s about the best I remember hearing in my system. If I spent more time with my speakers which are far from optimum with all the other stuff I have been into, they would soundstage much different. But I can say the foundation these amps are coming from is excellent.
Midrange. This is where everyone talks about SET magic. Tonally its damb good. With Diana Krall on digital, Mojo Audio equipment, to the greatest extent so far I hear a Gibson ES335 played through a Roland JC120. The instruments and vocals are very clean and full of body. But not too much. Some may say its bloom and feel a KT PP is more linear and even. That may be the case. The SET owner will need to like an enveloping rich sound. A more relaxed fat body.
On Pink Marti Get Happy vinyl with the STST Motus II/Hana/Allnic the violins on Yo te Quiero Siempre are to die for. Generally this is a nice piece of vinyl. Not the best. It sounds quite nice. There is a little more to it now. It seems to have fluidity to it. More so than what I noticed with the KT PP amp.
Another point related to midrange. Clarity is unreal. These are revealing amps in the midrange right up through a very extended top end. Even with all the body, the clarity is superb. It’s not fatiguing. It’s very revealing. This is to a detriment with not as good a vinyl. Any surface noise is exposed. Surface noise on one of my favorite Classical albums that is from the 70 was immediately apparent. Much more so than with the KT PP.
Volume Control. These amps are version 1 original. They have silver wiring with copper transformers. The Power Supply was upgraded with better caps. The grounding was improved upon. Additional shielding was applied to the transformers. In all, they were predecessors to the updated Version II. These are not 100% of the version II, but they are close. Anyhow, volume control. All these Amps have a pot on the front. You can have an upgraded Alps installed. I don’t know why you would use a pot. Maybe because they can be used as a single source integrated amp. The volume goes from 0 to explosive wide open. But, no matter how you slice it, a Pot is not a great device to pass a signal through. If using a preamp with these amps such as I am, the first modification I would make would be to get rid of the pot and have a ladder installed with maybe 4 excellent resistors. It will show its happy spot real fast. Too low and it’s a little flat. To high and it gets overdriven and bright. I figure 4 points of attenuation would allow for a very quiet play, 2 for perfect mid volume play and another for wide open cranking the tune.
Cranking the Tunes. KT PP have the advantage. The grip and control of the PP stands out. Its not that the SET at maybe high 80, low 90s db are clipping or compressing. More the KT PP have overhead and grip of the drivers. They control my PAP Trio 15 Horn (2 x 15” woofers and a horn mid/high) much better. But contol is not everything. KT PP doesn’t have as much of that body I talked about earlier. They are more muscular and slim. Like a hard bodied sports woman. The SET is more a beautiful 30 year old with fresh rounded curves. It’s hard to not stop and stare.
Well, is it a perfect amp. No. But then again I have not found a perfect amp yet. Fortunately for me, I probably play music more around the 70 to 80 db range. I have been told I have my volume around where engineers listen in the mixing room. Because of this, I don’t really get to that point where you start to notice the KT PP amp is pulling ahead with its overhead and ease of control. If I always played pretty loud, I would probably go looking for something that has as much body as I can find with power. My gut says this will be a 3 to 5 year amp for me. I will probably have someone measure the happy spots on my potentiometer and replace them with either one resistor or maybe a ladder with 4 or so steps.
Note, these impressions are with a couple Russian input and driver tubes with Psvane premium select cryogenic grade 845 tubes. They also come with 4 sets of Shuguang 845. The Shunguang are all different varietals to choose from. It will be interesting to see how these shape the sound over time. I also have some amazing Telefunkin E88CC tubes in my stash. Tubes are going to shape the sound. I was even provided a thorough review of how each 845 affects the overall playback. A good way to start with moving in directions that I may want to explore.
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OK, I just pulled the Edicron 6922 that it came with. I replaced it with my Telefunkin E88cc that cost $360 each now. Hands down, tubes play a big part with these amps. I am now playing 3 DB louder on my stepped ladder attenuator and its absolutely glorious. I was stopping 3 db lower with the Edicron because it was topping out for me. Starting to hit the point where you go, ok, that too loud. I'm 3 db higher now and could go up, but why. Its dam good right where it is.
I have had them running all morning. These amps slay. I am actually 6 db higher and could keep going up. They are just crushing it on my vinyl STST Motus II, Hana, Allnic – A Tribute to Duke – Concord Jazz 1977. I'm kind of shocked how much I like these amps.
I have had them running all morning. These amps slay. I am actually 6 db higher and could keep going up. They are just crushing it on my vinyl STST Motus II, Hana, Allnic – A Tribute to Duke – Concord Jazz 1977. I'm kind of shocked how much I like these amps.
Many years ago, I had the VTL MB450 PP mono blocks. Very nice amps, used them on my Apogee Stage speakers.
I bought an Antique Sound Labs 50 watt 805 SET, because I was in the process of going towards an active crossover. I was experimenting and trying out different things.
This was high power PP vs. medium power SET.
I had an 805 tube go bad, so while the new tube was on it’s way, I tried an experiment and put the MB450 on one channel and the SET on the other, equalized the volume, and listened.
The general dynamic open-ness of the SET was apparent right away, and I could change the imaging from one amp to the other in emphasis by shifting my ears back and forth from one speaker to the other. The SET pointed out compression and grit in the upper midrange of the MB450 PP, something I had not been aware of. The general open and natural sound quality of the SET won.
I sold the VTL MB450 and tube amps in my system since have been SET.
This isn’t to say the VTL was in any way a bad amp, or that aren't great sounding high power tube PP amps, I just found my ears preferred the SET presentation.
I bought an Antique Sound Labs 50 watt 805 SET, because I was in the process of going towards an active crossover. I was experimenting and trying out different things.
This was high power PP vs. medium power SET.
I had an 805 tube go bad, so while the new tube was on it’s way, I tried an experiment and put the MB450 on one channel and the SET on the other, equalized the volume, and listened.
The general dynamic open-ness of the SET was apparent right away, and I could change the imaging from one amp to the other in emphasis by shifting my ears back and forth from one speaker to the other. The SET pointed out compression and grit in the upper midrange of the MB450 PP, something I had not been aware of. The general open and natural sound quality of the SET won.
I sold the VTL MB450 and tube amps in my system since have been SET.
This isn’t to say the VTL was in any way a bad amp, or that aren't great sounding high power tube PP amps, I just found my ears preferred the SET presentation.
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