SET amp owners thread

[Mikem53]

They are great sounding tubes. I believe BAT runs them biased high for the most power as they were also short lived. I would imagine they would be quite rugged and longer lasting if driven a bit easier.
Enjoy your new amps !
I wonder if I could have kept a slight air gap between the tube and socket, if that would have helped my issue.

 

[KeithR]

Always liked the 75SE. Tube amp with excellent dynamics and bass. I seemed to blow fuses on occasion though (and replacement was underneath so a bit of a pain)

 

[remdeck]

SET for Avantgarde Acoustic Uno (2004)
As we have a very great collection of knowledge in this thread, I come to you.
My conclusion is that the Ayon Crossfire (III) is a match made in heaven with AA.
Than there is KR audio VA 350, which is also great.
I would spend around €5000 on a used SET.
Actually, a poweramp between the speakers would be better than a integrated, in my situation, as the rack is to the side of the speakers (5-7m of cable)
Heard NAT SE1 at Shakti, which was great also. But after reading that NAT builds the amps with material he has at hand atm, doesn't convince me. On the other hand, I would be able to repair it myself, should it fail...

Maybe Christoph can spring in, as he had the Crossfire and va350 at home

To be fair, the Crossfire would be my number one. And do I really need the Crossfire III, or are the predecessors good enough?

Regards, Remco

 

[morricab]

SET for Avantgarde Acoustic Uno (2004)
As we have a very great collection of knowledge in this thread, I come to you.
My conclusion is that the Ayon Crossfire (III) is a match made in heaven with AA.
Than there is KR audio VA 350, which is also great.
I would spend around €5000 on a used SET.
Actually, a poweramp between the speakers would be better than a integrated, in my situation, as the rack is to the side of the speakers (5-7m of cable)
Heard NAT SE1 at Shakti, which was great also. But after reading that NAT builds the amps with material he has at hand atm, doesn't convince me. On the other hand, I would be able to repair it myself, should it fail...

Maybe Christoph can spring in, as he had the Crossfire and va350 at home

To be fair, the Crossfire would be my number one. And do I really need the Crossfire III, or are the predecessors good enough?

Regards, Remco

Both Crossfire III and KR VA350i are really good amps as I have owned both (Christoph’s Crossfire was mine before) and will sound great with any horn. What you prefer will come down to taste a bit but I would have trouble choosing.

 

[remdeck]

As looks count also, the Crossfire looks very good
In the KR you hardly see the valves
Would look good with all the chrome and glass from the Ayon

 

[cal3713]

Great thread. New(ish) to WBT and thought I'd post my system here despite some cheating.

My first SET experience was the Coincident Frankenstein 300b monos driving Coincident Super Eclipse IIIs:



I loved that combination so much that I upgraded to Coincident's top model, the Pure Reference Extreme:



Unfortunately it was less efficient than the SEIIIs and I was forced to find higher power amplification. After trying and rejecting a number of highly reviewed amplifiers, I eventually built a First Watt F4 because it can be driven with the output of another amp in order to add additional current. My intention was to use the Frankenstein's to drive the PRE head units, and the Frankenstein -> F4 combination to drive the bass units, but like @Falcon_wizard, I lost a lot of coherency doing so. To my surprise, when I tried the F4 fullrange, I actually preferred it to the Coincident 300b monos. Eventually I built the F4 into a dual monoblock design with Vishay Z-foils throughout the signal path, temperature/OP matched transistors, solid core silver wiring, and outboard power supplies with CLC filtering, independent 400V toroids for the + & - rails, and 384,200uF of total power supply capacitance. The F4s have no voltage gain and are pure source followers adding only current gain.

In order to add voltage to the system and (re)inject some of the beautiful SET sound, I use a Shiny Eyes DHT preamp based on the EML20A (mesh) tube with Monolith output transformers. It's a single stage design and sounds just spectacular to my ears.

 

[joaovieira]

SET for Avantgarde Acoustic Uno (2004)
As we have a very great collection of knowledge in this thread, I come to you.
My conclusion is that the Ayon Crossfire (III) is a match made in heaven with AA.
Than there is KR audio VA 350, which is also great.
I would spend around €5000 on a used SET.
Actually, a poweramp between the speakers would be better than a integrated, in my situation, as the rack is to the side of the speakers (5-7m of cable)
Heard NAT SE1 at Shakti, which was great also. But after reading that NAT builds the amps with material he has at hand atm, doesn't convince me. On the other hand, I would be able to repair it myself, should it fail...

Maybe Christoph can spring in, as he had the Crossfire and va350 at home

To be fair, the Crossfire would be my number one. And do I really need the Crossfire III, or are the predecessors good enough?

Regards, Remco

Audiopax M88 monoblocks and M5 pra have always match Avantgarde speakers. Some best of shows they got.

 

[remdeck]

Audiopax M88 monoblocks and M5 pra have always match Avantgarde speakers. Some best of shows they got.

...and could fit the bill
I will read into this!

 

[christoph]

As looks count also, the Crossfire looks very good
In the KR you hardly see the valves View attachment 75793
Would look good with all the chrome and glass from the Ayon

What a beautiful room
Marslo still uses his Ayon Crossfire 3 after all these years on his several Advangarde Horn Speakers.

On the other hand, I took the Ayon Crossfire 3 and the KR Audio VA350i (aka Baby Kronzilla) to a friend of mine with Odeon No. 33 horn speakers and all three of us (the owner of the Odeon No. 33, a mutual musician friend and I) preferred the KR Audio by a small (but obviously unanimous) margin.

This surprised me, because I guessed that the Ayon would sound at least as good as the excellent Baby 'Zilla.

Both, the Ayon Crossfire 3 and the Baby 'Zilla are really outstandingly excellent sounding amps, especially if you can find and buy them second hand

 

[marslo]

SET for Avantgarde Acoustic Uno (2004)
As we have a very great collection of knowledge in this thread, I come to you.
My conclusion is that the Ayon Crossfire (III) is a match made in heaven with AA.
Than there is KR audio VA 350, which is also great.
I would spend around €5000 on a used SET.
Actually, a poweramp between the speakers would be better than a integrated, in my situation, as the rack is to the side of the speakers (5-7m of cable)
Heard NAT SE1 at Shakti, which was great also. But after reading that NAT builds the amps with material he has at hand atm, doesn't convince me. On the other hand, I would be able to repair it myself, should it fail...

Maybe Christoph can spring in, as he had the Crossfire and va350 at home

To be fair, the Crossfire would be my number one. And do I really need the Crossfire III, or are the predecessors good enough?

Regards, Remco

As Christoph pointed out I have had 3 iterations of Crossfire.
With Avantgarde Duo Omega the first version, replaced 2 years later with the second one and in 2014 by Crossfire III in setup with Duo Omega G2 and then with Mezzo XD.
I auditioned also Crossfire Evo with Duo Mezzo XD, it is a good amp but the gain is too high for Avantgardes.

My Crossfire III was recently upgraded with Mundorf Silver Gold Evo capacitors and Nichicon regulators, it is under breaking-in period with my Trio LE/ REL setup , very promissing.

I did not try KR 350 in my setup though. Among over 10 other integrated and power amps I tried during last 10 years Crossfire III showed the best synergy with Avantgardes and remains my main amplification. The second one is a Polish hybrid desing A 100 by Circle Labs.

If @remdeck prefers, Crossfire III exists also as a power amp without the pre section.
But integrated version can be used as a power amp as well with external pre using Direct In connection. Imho Crossfire III is significantly better than two former iterations mainly due to improved pre and power supply sections and tube rectifier .

 

[christoph]

As Christoph pointed out I have had 3 iterations of Crossfire.
With Avantgarde Duo Omega the first version, replaced 2 years later with the second one and in 2014 by Crossfire III in setup with Duo Omega G2 and then with Mezzo XD.
I auditioned also Crossfire Evo with Duo Mezzo XD, it is a good amp but the gain is too high for Avantgardes.
My Crossfire III was recently upgraded with Mundorf Silver Gold Evo capacitors and Nichicon regulators, it is under breaking-in in period with my Trio LE/ REL setup , very promissing.
I did not try KR 350 in my setup though. Among over 10 other integrated and power amps I tried during last 10 years Crossfire III showed the best synergy with Avantgardes and remains my main amplification. The second one is a hybrid desing Polish A 100 by Circle Labs.
If @remdeck prefers, Crossfire III exists also as a power amp without the pre section.
But integrated version can be also used as a power amp with external pre using Direct In connection. Imho Crossfire III is signiicantly better than two former iterations mainly due to improved power supply section and tube rectifier .

Sorry for OT, but looking at your pic, I couldn't help but imagine how gorgeous a J.Sikora Standard Black Max (another exceptional Polish brand) would look and sound on that shelf of yours
I'm almost salivating
My friend Michael owns exactly that TT and it sounds AWESOME with the Lampi Phono

 

[marslo]

Sorry for OT, but looking at your pic, I couldn't help but imagine how gorgeous a J.Sikora Standard Black Max (another exceptional Polish brand) would look and sound on that shelf of yours
I'm almost salivating
My friend Michael owns exactly that TT and it sounds AWESOME with the Lampi Phono

very tempting but it would have been a sin to buy it in the same year as Trios

 

[christoph]

very tempting but it would have been a sin to buy it in the same year as Trios

I can imagine

 

[morricab]

What a beautiful room
Marslo still uses his Ayon Crossfire 3 after all these years on his several Advangarde Horn Speakers.

On the other hand, I took the Ayon Crossfire 3 and the KR Audio VA350i (aka Baby Kronzilla) to a friend of mine with Odeon No. 33 horn speakers and all three of us (the owner of the Odeon No. 33, a mutual musician friend and I) preferred the KR Audio by a small (but obviously unanimous) margin.

This surprised me, because I guessed that the Ayon would sound at least as good as the excellent Baby 'Zilla.

Both, the Ayon Crossfire 3 and the Baby 'Zilla are really outstandingly excellent sounding amps, especially if you can find and buy them second hand

Could be the speaker demands a bit more than the Crossfire 3 is comfortable with. I think the KR has more raw grunt as the output tube is from the transmitter family and the Ayons is from the 300B family. Just a guess...because I probably preferred, ever so slightly, the Ayon on my La Bohemes that are quite a bit easier to drive than the 33s...not that 33s are hard to drive but La Bohemes have about 3-4 db more sensitivity and an easier load.

 

[morricab]

As Christoph pointed out I have had 3 iterations of Crossfire.
With Avantgarde Duo Omega the first version, replaced 2 years later with the second one and in 2014 by Crossfire III in setup with Duo Omega G2 and then with Mezzo XD.
I auditioned also Crossfire Evo with Duo Mezzo XD, it is a good amp but the gain is too high for Avantgardes.

My Crossfire III was recently upgraded with Mundorf Silver Gold Evo capacitors and Nichicon regulators, it is under breaking-in period with my Trio LE/ REL setup , very promissing.

I did not try KR 350 in my setup though. Among over 10 other integrated and power amps I tried during last 10 years Crossfire III showed the best synergy with Avantgardes and remains my main amplification. The second one is a Polish hybrid desing A 100 by Circle Labs.

If @remdeck prefers, Crossfire III exists also as a power amp without the pre section.
But integrated version can be used as a power amp as well with external pre using Direct In connection. Imho Crossfire III is significantly better than two former iterations mainly due to improved pre and power supply sections and tube rectifier .

I also had the Vulcan Evos in house when I had my Crossfire and while they did some things better than the Crossfire, I felt that the Crossfire was actually more transparent on my Odeons. BTW, have you ever tried replacing the 6H30s with 6H6s? I found that I really preferred the sound with that tube in the driver section. Also, replacing the stock Russian input tubes with good NOS (GE or RCA...can't remember anymore) did a lot. What are you using for the rectifier? I had an Ayon Branded EML 5U4G. That being said with the Aries Cerat Genus I don't think about these other amps so much anymore...same power rating...another league (and I owned and loved the KR VA350i for about 5 years).

The best SETs I have owned in order from the best to the worst:
Aries Cerat Diana Integrated (on everything except my Odeons...it was strangely overdamped in the bass)
Aries Cerat Diana Forte (for all non-horn speakers)
Aries Cerat Genus (just below the other two on everything else but the best I have had on my Odeons)
KR Audio DM monos (had for review and drove electrostats wonderfully, full emobodiment of the KR sound)
Ayon Crossfire III (on my Odeons...didn't try on too many other speakers)
KR Audio VA 350i (great all around amps...probably a bit better than the Ayon on "normal" speakers)
Ayon Vulcan Evo monos (great but not as good as the above and a lot more expensive...had for review)
Wall Audio M50 monos (Powerful PSET with great punchy sound and engaging but not as transparent and a bit golden colored)
Ayon Spark MKI (new acquisition but sounds promising...might move up a spot or two eventually)
Lady Day LD+ 300B monos (when playing horn only moves up a few spots with that 300B stuff going on)
JJ-322 (great bass and mids but the highs were curiously reticent...good inner resolution as you expect from a 300B PSET)
NAT Symbiosis SE (Not true SET but is single ended hybrid...unique...moves up 2-3 spots after playing for 2+ hours)
Cary CAD-572se (had a long time ago and might be better than this...speakers were very different then)
Mastersound Dueundici (a SEP and good clean sound but not at the level of those above...inexpensive relatively though)

In the under 20K category, it is Genus, KR Audio VA350i and Ayon Crossfire III that I think are top integrated contenders.

 

[marslo]

Very interesting Brad indeed.

For last 4 years I was using EML 5u4g mesh , during the upgrade it was measured and the technicien advised me to replace it. Before I had Ayon branded 5u4g, probably made by EML as you say.

I had a spare EML 5u4g mesh with around 500 h and installed it after Crossfire was back home after the upgrade.

The power tubes A62 B are original ( the amp is from 2014) and are in good shape , the tubes in pre section were replaced 2 years ago with a new set of Russian Harmonix and metal tubes.

Instaed of searching for NOS in pre section I decided to upgrade the capacaitors, regulators and power supply. The friend of mine uses red metal tubes in his Crossfire 3, do not remember the brand. Now you suggest to try NOS tubes as a possible improvement, I have to try then.

As for Aries Cerat Genus I am sure it could be a perfect match with my Trios but it's very heavy and there is no distribution in Poland.
It makes the replacement more difficult .

As a rule I do not buy brands which are not represented in our country for warranty and service issues.

 

[joaovieira]

There are some links that well demonstrate the synergy between Audiopax and Avantgarde:

- Michael Lavorgna, editor of Audiostream (a publication focused on digital by Stereophile), considered the room with Audiopax / Avantgarde as the best room at the Munich fair in 2015. Unfortunately this publication ended due to changes in the managing of Stereophile and the link no longer exist but the text started like this: "Do you have a favorite room at the show so far?" asked Geoff Armstrong as I sat in his room on the last day of the show. "Yea, this one." I replied. The fact that I found this room, sponsored by Monaco's Sound Galleries, to be a few steps beyond most every other in terms of natural musicality speaks to all the parts that make up the whole. Rarely have I experience a similar sense of immediacy, flow, and effortlessness. You know like real music. Stunning clarity. Spark of life. Great control, delicate. Embodiment of singer. Lovely. "

- Here is another comment about that same room:
"At last year's Swiss High-End (2014), the big Avantgarde Trio could be heard with three pairs of Basshorns - although these reproduced brass and organ music very well, I found that voices had a strong metallic finish to them. Very unnatural - so the concept of Avantgarde horn speakers was a little spoiled to my ears based on that experience.Now Audiopax in combination with Avantgarde, has caused me to review this opinion! Even Avantgarde's own room at the High End this year did not manage to equal the experience of SoundGalleries. "

https://www.lautsprecherdesign.de/en/reviews/high-end-2015-soundgalleries-en.html


- In the review of the first test of the Model 88 on Stereophile (still in its first version) this synergy is clear: "The relationship between the sounds of the Audiopax and the Avantgarde Uno speakers is a particularly synergistic one — in fact, the Audiopax was originally imported by Avantgarde USA because of that synergy ".

https://www.stereophile.com/content...monoblock-power-amplifier-follow-january-2006

- This review by The Absolute Sound about another show they did together is also interesting, where someone comments that the Avantgarde developer himself uses Audiopax amplifiers in his home (in fact he was a great friend of Eduardo - both admired each other - and always considered that the Audiopax were really the best match for their speakers).

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/ar...ach-julie-mullins-on-electronics-20k-and-up-1

 

[marslo]

I was twice at Geoffrey's Armstrong Sound Gallery in Monaco to audition their server ( SGM) and at least once the presentation was made with Avantgardes Duos driven by Audiopax amps.

It was ok but I couldn't say which element was the most important - the server or the amps. I would say it was the same kind of presentation as with my Duo Omega with Crossfire and Aurender W20 but with some slight differences.

Both setup are good but it is a matter of taste and availibility to make a choice.

Audiopax is not represented in Poland though.

 

[remdeck]

What a beautiful room
Marslo still uses his Ayon Crossfire 3 after all these years on his several Advangarde Horn Speakers.

On the other hand, I took the Ayon Crossfire 3 and the KR Audio VA350i (aka Baby Kronzilla) to a friend of mine with Odeon No. 33 horn speakers and all three of us (the owner of the Odeon No. 33, a mutual musician friend and I) preferred the KR Audio by a small (but obviously unanimous) margin.

This surprised me, because I guessed that the Ayon would sound at least as good as the excellent Baby 'Zilla.

Both, the Ayon Crossfire 3 and the Baby 'Zilla are really outstandingly excellent sounding amps, especially if you can find and buy them second hand

Christoph, thank you so much for for your input and for liking my room. I'm quite proud of it as I did it all myself. This is what it looked like one and a half year ago :

Now having some work to do on the acoustics.
To the amps; interesting that you and your friends liked the VA350 more than the Ayon. From the looks, the Ayon is miles ahead, but the 3 will cost around double as much as a used 350. Maybe I should really give a VA350 a try...

As Christoph pointed out I have had 3 iterations of Crossfire.
With Avantgarde Duo Omega the first version, replaced 2 years later with the second one and in 2014 by Crossfire III in setup with Duo Omega G2 and then with Mezzo XD.
I auditioned also Crossfire Evo with Duo Mezzo XD, it is a good amp but the gain is too high for Avantgardes.

My Crossfire III was recently upgraded with Mundorf Silver Gold Evo capacitors and Nichicon regulators, it is under breaking-in period with my Trio LE/ REL setup , very promissing.

I did not try KR 350 in my setup though. Among over 10 other integrated and power amps I tried during last 10 years Crossfire III showed the best synergy with Avantgardes and remains my main amplification. The second one is a Polish hybrid desing A 100 by Circle Labs.

If @remdeck prefers, Crossfire III exists also as a power amp without the pre section.
But integrated version can be used as a power amp as well with external pre using Direct In connection. Imho Crossfire III is significantly better than two former iterations mainly due to improved pre and power supply sections and tube rectifier .

Marslo, thanks for your feedback. I follow you closely on your road to Avantgarde Heaven
It was also your input about the Crossfire III that made me look closer at that amp. Would like to know your befindings on the "upgrade". It will be difficult, as you updated your speakers also. But as I can build amps myself also, upgrading an existing amp wouldn't be an issue.
As I have to look at the used market and budget is limited to around €5000 a Crossfire PA will not be possible, but as morricab also points out (thanks for that too) the Crossfire III is very close, if not better in exactly the qualities I'm after when upgrading to a SET.

Could be the speaker demands a bit more than the Crossfire 3 is comfortable with. I think the KR has more raw grunt as the output tube is from the transmitter family and the Ayons is from the 300B family. Just a guess...because I probably preferred, ever so slightly, the Ayon on my La Bohemes that are quite a bit easier to drive than the 33s...not that 33s are hard to drive but La Bohemes have about 3-4 db more sensitivity and an easier load.

Brad, my Unos never need more than 1Watt. I have this nice McIntosh MC7300 with Watt meters and the needle never moves over 1 Watt. The room isn't that big. 5x7 meters, max height 3,8m. I had the "Darling" amp at home to play around and this has 0,8W. It was not enough when playing very loud, but gave an indication that I really don't need more than 5 - 10W amp.
Aries Cerat will be above budget. A friend of mine had the Cary 572. It was hell-hot after some hours of use, it hummed and the transformers had a very loud mechanical buzz.

There are some links that well demonstrate the synergy between Audiopax and Avantgarde:

- Michael Lavorgna, editor of Audiostream (a publication focused on digital by Stereophile), considered the room with Audiopax / Avantgarde as the best room at the Munich fair in 2015. Unfortunately this publication ended due to changes in the managing of Stereophile and the link no longer exist but the text started like this: "Do you have a favorite room at the show so far?" asked Geoff Armstrong as I sat in his room on the last day of the show. "Yea, this one." I replied. The fact that I found this room, sponsored by Monaco's Sound Galleries, to be a few steps beyond most every other in terms of natural musicality speaks to all the parts that make up the whole. Rarely have I experience a similar sense of immediacy, flow, and effortlessness. You know like real music. Stunning clarity. Spark of life. Great control, delicate. Embodiment of singer. Lovely. "

- Here is another comment about that same room:
"At last year's Swiss High-End (2014), the big Avantgarde Trio could be heard with three pairs of Basshorns - although these reproduced brass and organ music very well, I found that voices had a strong metallic finish to them. Very unnatural - so the concept of Avantgarde horn speakers was a little spoiled to my ears based on that experience.Now Audiopax in combination with Avantgarde, has caused me to review this opinion! Even Avantgarde's own room at the High End this year did not manage to equal the experience of SoundGalleries. "

https://www.lautsprecherdesign.de/en/reviews/high-end-2015-soundgalleries-en.html


- In the review of the first test of the Model 88 on Stereophile (still in its first version) this synergy is clear: "The relationship between the sounds of the Audiopax and the Avantgarde Uno speakers is a particularly synergistic one — in fact, the Audiopax was originally imported by Avantgarde USA because of that synergy ".

https://www.stereophile.com/content...monoblock-power-amplifier-follow-january-2006

- This review by The Absolute Sound about another show they did together is also interesting, where someone comments that the Avantgarde developer himself uses Audiopax amplifiers in his home (in fact he was a great friend of Eduardo - both admired each other - and always considered that the Audiopax were really the best match for their speakers).

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/ar...ach-julie-mullins-on-electronics-20k-and-up-1

Thank you very very much for all the input, joaoviera! It really lets me overthink my preferences. As a DHT lover, I would love to go that route for the first time in my live. I love tubes and as live develops, now my colpete system is transistor. Now its time to do it right

Now I will have some sleepless nights and will decide...

Regards, Remco

 

[cal3713]

Christoph, thank you so much for for your input and for liking my room. I'm quite proud of it as I did it all myself. This is what it looked like one and a half year ago

Amazing work! Congrats. Wish I had those skills.