SET amp owners thread

[DasguteOhr]

If you register here in the forum, a few old hands will probably be able to help you. Good luck.

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70 years old studio technology and still as good as today's stuff.
Exsample

 

[Maxamillion]

DIY UX-201A preamp/DAC
DIY 833C mono amps
Infinity RSIIb speakers

 

[cal3713]

DIY UX-201A preamp/DAC
DIY 833C mono amps
Infinity RSIIb speakers

Pretty DIY work! Impressive (and dangerous!)...

 

[Glide3]

DIY UX-201A preamp/DAC
DIY 833C mono amps
Infinity RSIIb speakers

Very cool
Some DIY Philips TB3-1000 mono amps

 

[Glide3]

Very cool
Some DIY Philips TB3-1000 mono amps

 

[TonyE]

All DIY clones: Pass Aleph 2, Aleph 5, Sony VFET, XA252 mosfet, Zenductor, Zenductor II, ACA.... I think the FW F5 can be considered SET.

The F4s are just current drive OP, not an amp.

My electric bill is onerous when I run the music.

 

[Atmasphere]

I think the FW F5 can be considered SET.

Huh? Its a push-pull transistor circuit. The fact that its musical should tell you something.

 

[TonyE]

You are right... I misstyped. It's a push pull class A. A rare bird.

I should have added my DIY SIT4 clone.

Mostly I'm into Class A... like my XA252 ( the XA25 MOSFET clone ). The amps get big very quickly... even with aluminum casework, you can't help the weight of the power supply and then you want mono.... or even dual mono in the same chassis....

I do have some nice AB amps too... CJMF2100, Nuforce STA200.. and so on... They are heavy too with big linear power supplies.

I do have class D amps... just to show that I'm not necessarily stuck in the technology, just the sound.

The biggest audio problem I got, besides paying 48 cents per KwH... is that I'm flat out running out of room.

 

[Francesco tube fan]

I live these last steps of my life as an audiophile with the Kondo Souga, I am in love with it and I gave it the best tubes possible, single plate, double plate, fivre, rca, brimar, a collection worth a few thousand euros. obviously to drive the high efficiency of the avantgarde duo xd. I recently purchased the pre Poseidon DAC and sold the Kondo G70i I had, I'm happy with the sound I have today with these splendid machines...then if you want I'll tell you the rest...

 

[Kingrex]

I have had my Audion SET 845 sitting in front of my Blade KT88PP for a couple weeks now. In that time I have been able to go back and forth between amps quickly. For quite a while I was very smitten with the 845. I was liking the lush romantic sound. Very full and never doing anything wrong. Pretty quiet, and good detail. I am happy with the amp.

During that time, I have also messed with my speaker positioning. mostly adjusting the toe in. A little to in, to too wide, then back in a little. I also started moving my seating back. I had been sitting about 6 feet from the speakers. Very immersive there. Bass is fat there. Your buried in the music. The speakers are about 8 feet C to C. The side walls about 4 feet to the center of each speaker.
Last night I was surprised just how much the bass was impacted by the toe in of the speaker. It was pretty significant. As I went wide it got thinner. As I came in it got fuller.
Also at this time, the furniture in the room changed. Basically, noting in there now. That left me free to move my seating more. I was working out while listening. Floor is carpet and I have a king size bed sheet laying on the carpet I am on. During my workout I ended up kind of far from the speakers and noticed it sounded quite good. I then started to pay attention again. FWIW, I am in and out of attention when working out. I may sit intently for a couple songs and listen, then go back to a few sets of whatever. Then listen intently again.

At this point I put on a well known album with the 845 and did 4 or so of my favorite songs. Then I went to my POP file on Qobuz and played some electronic type music. Then I shut it down and plugged the Blade back in and started right in on the POP. Holly COW. At 9 feet back, the Blade just destroyed the 845. I finally understand why people say KT88 can sound muscular. The bass was percussive and driving. You felt the power in the room. The drive was far more intense. The detail and soundstage were far far superior. The 845 in comparison was non offending. But too lacking in detail and power to grip the drivers. Romantic and full. But it ended there.
I am super happy with my Blade amp now. Best amp I have ever had. I get why I ditched the Dartzeel for the Blade. The Dartzeel NHB108 model 1 I had could never do what this amp does.
It does take setup to get what the Blade is capable of. I am shocked how important toe in is when it comes to bass in the room. I was messing with it listening for detail and soundstage size not bass. The bass change surprised me. It took me a moment to understand what was happeniing and fucus on it. I don't fully get why toe in changes the bass so much. Musty be the way a open baffle cancels itself directly to the side. I thought bass was more about distance from the back wall and from the side wall. Not so much the toe. I learned something new.

 

[Kingrex]

change 4 standoff against swinging metal maybe it helps..
View attachment 142275

I messed with rubber feet. Horrible with my gear. I am back to Drusy round stone about 3/8 inch diameter set into a dimpled Corian block. The preamp sits on that. That is on a slabe of 2.5 inch thick solid maple. The amps sit on 4 x 5/16 bolts and that sits on 2 more maple blocks. Same tree as under the preamp. That is the best so far. I am going to try and dimple the maple and put the Drusy stone into the dimple and set the amps onto that. The bolts just seem to work well.

 

[bonzo75]

I live these last steps of my life as an audiophile with the Kondo Souga, I am in love with it and I gave it the best tubes possible, single plate, double plate, fivre, rca, brimar, a collection worth a few thousand euros. obviously to drive the high efficiency of the avantgarde duo xd. I recently purchased the pre Poseidon DAC and sold the Kondo G70i I had, I'm happy with the sound I have today with these splendid machines...then if you want I'll tell you the rest...

Hi which were the best 2a3s you liked?

 

[Atmasphere]

I don't fully get why toe in changes the bass so much.

Bass in most rooms is entirely reverberant because of the length of the waveform (14 feet at 80Hz so 28 feet at 40Hz...). In order for your ear to tell the note is there the entire waveform has to pass by it. To tell what note it actually is takes a few more iterations. By that time the bass has bounced all over the room.

The reason the toe in makes so much difference is that when you angle the speaker more, the bass cancels itself less. IOW you have a standing wave where bass energy is being canceled at the listening position. Toeing it in reduces this problem.

Obviously if you have only one subwoofer, the thing to do is not point it at you, instead point it at an angle towards a wall so that it has to bounce like a cue ball to reach you. In this manner you can break up standing waves a lot more effectively.

Your speakers don't seem to like amps with a high damping factor. Amps with a lower damping factor (a tube amp) apparently allow for more woofer excursion. I doubt very much the Audion actually having 'less' bass; its damping factor is just a lot higher and your speakers aren't designed for that. So fine- just use the tube amp. But if you ever go to a speaker that is meant to be 'Voltage driven' (which is about 99% of speakers made) then you'll likely find the amplifier situation reversed.

 

[AudioHR]

Bass in most rooms is entirely reverberant because of the length of the waveform (14 feet at 80Hz so 28 feet at 40Hz...). In order for your ear to tell the note is there the entire waveform has to pass by it. To tell what note it actually is takes a few more iterations. By that time the bass has bounced all over the room.

The reason the toe in makes so much difference is that when you angle the speaker more, the bass cancels itself less. IOW you have a standing wave where bass energy is being canceled at the listening position. Toeing it in reduces this problem.

Obviously if you have only one subwoofer, the thing to do is not point it at you, instead point it at an angle towards a wall so that it has to bounce like a cue ball to reach you. In this manner you can break up standing waves a lot more effectively.

Your speakers don't seem to like amps with a high damping factor. Amps with a lower damping factor (a tube amp) apparently allow for more woofer excursion. I doubt very much the Audion actually having 'less' bass; its damping factor is just a lot higher and your speakers aren't designed for that. So fine- just use the tube amp. But if you ever go to a speaker that is meant to be 'Voltage driven' (which is about 99% of speakers made) then you'll likely find the amplifier situation reversed.

Just following along.

Interesting comment on the toe in, I hadn't thought much about it before but what you say makes sense.

I just purchased a subwoofer as I am interested to see if it can improve my listening experience. The plan is to buy a second one, to as you say break up standing waves more effectively. Pointing the single sub at an angle towards a wall seems like a good idea, I can't say I have heard that suggested before. It's something I will have to try! What ramifications might this have when I add the second sub?

 

[Kingrex]

Bass in most rooms is entirely reverberant because of the length of the waveform (14 feet at 80Hz so 28 feet at 40Hz...). In order for your ear to tell the note is there the entire waveform has to pass by it. To tell what note it actually is takes a few more iterations. By that time the bass has bounced all over the room.

The reason the toe in makes so much difference is that when you angle the speaker more, the bass cancels itself less. IOW you have a standing wave where bass energy is being canceled at the listening position. Toeing it in reduces this problem.

Obviously if you have only one subwoofer, the thing to do is not point it at you, instead point it at an angle towards a wall so that it has to bounce like a cue ball to reach you. In this manner you can break up standing waves a lot more effectively.

Your speakers don't seem to like amps with a high damping factor. Amps with a lower damping factor (a tube amp) apparently allow for more woofer excursion. I doubt very much the Audion actually having 'less' bass; its damping factor is just a lot higher and your speakers aren't designed for that. So fine- just use the tube amp. But if you ever go to a speaker that is meant to be 'Voltage driven' (which is about 99% of speakers made) then you'll likely find the amplifier situation reversed.

Audion 845 has more bass. But the bass is not as tight and defined. Its rich, lush, nicely rounded bass.

The Blade on the other hand has well defined, dynamic bass that presents with control and authority. This allows for much higher detail. You "Hear" the individual instruments. You Hear each note. Its no longer mushed together.

 

[Kingrex]

Bass in most rooms is entirely reverberant because of the length of the waveform (14 feet at 80Hz so 28 feet at 40Hz...). In order for your ear to tell the note is there the entire waveform has to pass by it. To tell what note it actually is takes a few more iterations. By that time the bass has bounced all over the room.

The reason the toe in makes so much difference is that when you angle the speaker more, the bass cancels itself less. IOW you have a standing wave where bass energy is being canceled at the listening position. Toeing it in reduces this problem.

Obviously if you have only one subwoofer, the thing to do is not point it at you, instead point it at an angle towards a wall so that it has to bounce like a cue ball to reach you. In this manner you can break up standing waves a lot more effectively.

Your speakers don't seem to like amps with a high damping factor. Amps with a lower damping factor (a tube amp) apparently allow for more woofer excursion. I doubt very much the Audion actually having 'less' bass; its damping factor is just a lot higher and your speakers aren't designed for that. So fine- just use the tube amp. But if you ever go to a speaker that is meant to be 'Voltage driven' (which is about 99% of speakers made) then you'll likely find the amplifier situation reversed.

Makes sense. I have to get swarm sub setup. I want more low end. My friend Bobs bass is so good. He has 4 subs controlled by a BACCH/ORC. I think my system could play better than his with bottom end reinforcement.

 

[Atmasphere]

What ramifications might this have when I add the second sub?

Better bass coverage in the room, so long as it is pointing in a different direction as well.

I have to get swarm sub setup.

I use a pair in my setup. My main speakers are flat to 20Hz so I just needed the pair to break up standing waves. They are placed asymmetrically in the room and work a treat!

 

[DasguteOhr]

I messed with rubber feet. Horrible with my gear. I am back to Drusy round stone about 3/8 inch diameter set into a dimpled Corian block. The preamp sits on that. That is on a slabe of 2.5 inch thick solid maple. The amps sit on 4 x 5/16 bolts and that sits on 2 more maple blocks. Same tree as under the preamp. That is the best so far. I am going to try and dimple the maple and put the Drusy stone into the dimple and set the amps onto that. The bolts just seem to work well.

It's not about device feet; it's about combating microphonics. Many manufacturers have these problems with their steep tubes. Ideally, they use those tubesockets they isolate from the housing. Since they're difficult to retrofit, these vibration mounts are worth a try.
Exsample thomas mayer phono

 

[Atmasphere]

It's not about device feet; it's about combating microphonics. Many manufacturers have these problems with their steep tubes. Ideally, they use those tubesockets they isolate from the housing. Since they're difficult to retrofit, these vibration mounts are worth a try.
Exsample thomas mayer phonoView attachment 147295

Yes, if you don't employ isomeric isolation at the preamp level, you're missing a bet!

This isn't a new idea either. Ampex used isomeric isolation on the circuit boards of their famous 351 electronics, which recorded a good portion of the RCA Living Stereo catalog (and others) up until sometime in the 1960s.

 

[Kingrex]

It's not about device feet; it's about combating microphonics. Many manufacturers have these problems with their steep tubes. Ideally, they use those tubesockets they isolate from the housing. Since they're difficult to retrofit, these vibration mounts are worth a try.
Exsample thomas mayer phonoView attachment 147295

I agree. Vibrations from transformers can get into tubes. My Blade is 1/4" SS plate on top and I think 1.5 inch cast on the sides to damp vibratinons. Mass and rigidity.
Polymer dampers work. You could loose snap and detail with soft stuff. Whatever damping device Thomas uses has a sonic signature. I assume the gain works for his expectations.

Yes, rigidity and mass also have a sound. So do the feet and platforms. So far, the best feet I have on the amps are 5/16 bolts that is ship mounted to the crate and pallet with. They have round ends.

FWIW one of the biggest speaker gains for me was mounting the crossover remote from the stand. Huge jump in clarity.