Shunyata DENALI

[kennyb123]

What I find interesting is that some Spectral dealers, and they even offer Shunyata, swear by MIT technology for power line -- when Spectral gear comes into play. Like the Z-strip as you use, or possibly Power Bar.

Has MIT done anything with power products other than recycle and repackage the technology Richard Marsh designed for them decades ago? I realize that may be a harsh way to describe their offerings, but it has seemed to me that they long ago abandoned doing any R&D in power distribution.

 

[ack]

What I find interesting is that some Spectral dealers, and they even offer Shunyata, swear by MIT technology for power line -- when Spectral gear comes into play. Like the Z-strip as you use, or possibly Power Bar. And many seem to agree that floating the amplifiers while grounding the preamp and plugging all Spectral gear directly into the wall is the way to go.

The choice to use the MIT Z-Strip was entirely mine, unlike the MIT power cords which I found very current-limiting compared to the Shunyata I use. I have seen dealers soften their stance on MIT power over the years. And yes, star-grounding at the preamp seems to be the way to go.

And as with your Phelps, it's a matter of taste. Personally more of a red Zin or Rhone Ranger guy...

It's a damn good wine, and what I like the best is that it's consistently great, year after year, whenever it's released, much like the top French - that's a great "reference" LOL

 

[newmill]

Ground loops are a real problem. You really don't think about it until you get the problem. Then, it can be a bear to resolve. The MOST common way to create a ground loop problem is by installing multiple dedicated lines. You think you are doing something good for the performance of your system - but as it is with many things, the more complexity you add to a system, the more likely you will have unforeseen side-effects.

When doing a new installation I usually recommend a maximum of two dedicated lines be installed. One for the source components and one for the amp(s).

What is most important, no matter how many lines you install, is to over-rate the dedicated lines and pay particular attention to wire gauge, conduit, outlets and the breaker in the electrical panel.

If you have a simple system (3-4 components) and don't have massive power amplifiers, one dedicated line is sufficient when done correctly.

Only when you have massive or multiple amplifiers (home theater) do I recommend more than 2 dedicated lines. There are some amps like PASS, Macintosh, Boulder and some class A amps that pull very high current loads and MUST have seperate dedicated lines to perform at their true potential.

If you are using solid state amps with truly balanced type inputs and outputs, you will not usually have any problems even with multiple dedicated lines. And if you do have the problem with this configuration it is easy to fix.

The problem most commonly occurs when using single-ended interfaces to connect amplifiers that are NOT on the same circuit as the source components. JFYI, all RCA type connections are single-ended and even many XLR type connections are actually single-ended not true balanced connections. And the problem is more often found when the amplifiers are tube types.

Just to be clear about this: there are many other causes of ground loops even if you only have a single dedicated line. So this is not meant to be a comprehensive discussion on ground loops. This is about dedicated lines and why you may NOT want to put in too many of them. And when you do - pay attention to the details.

Ground loops are caused by differential currents running through the ground wire (return) in the interconnects. There will be a voltage difference between the signal grounds between any two components. You can easily measure this with a simple volt meter. When different dedicated lines are installed, there can be a difference in potential (voltage) from one ground connection to the other relatively. The best way to avoid this is to ensure that the impedance of the ground connections are the same. This means using the same type and gauge of wire, the same length, no splices, no junction boxes, the same outlet type and ensuring good reliable connections in the electrical panel. And the electrician should not coil excess wire in the wall! It is not just about the length of the wire - it is total impedance that is important.

Maybe a dumb question, but what should we look for in a high quality breaker for the electrical panel? Thanks

 

[CGabriel]

Maybe a dumb question, but what should we look for in a high quality breaker for the electrical panel? Thanks

RE Cicuit Breakers:

If you live in a relatively new home or your electrical panel has been upgraded or replaced there is no need to do anything. You may ask an electrican to tighten all the connections.

If the electrical panel is old and or the electrical breakers have tripped several times, there may be a performance advantage in replacing the electrical breaker(s) that supply power to the audio/video system. When breakers trip thay can develop carbon deposits across the internal contacts. This degrades current capacity and increases heat and a rise in thermal noise. This also makes it more likely that the circuit breaker will trip below its actual current rating.

Just replacing old and worn breakers of any brand and type can be an improvement.

That being said there are performance and internal construction differences between electrical breakers. I recommend using a "hydraulic electromagnetic breaker" IF it is available for your specific electrical panel. These are not commonly used and are usually a custom order item.

Whether the breaker is a common thermal type or an electromagnetic type I prefer the "Carling" brand. This is the brand and type of circuit breaker that we use in all of our power distributors.

 

[Speedskater]

The problem with replacement residential circuit breakers is that the breaker has to be listed for use in the home's breaker box (aka panel board). Those very nice Carling breakers are designed for use in industrial products.

 

[CGabriel]

The problem with replacement residential circuit breakers is that the breaker has to be listed for use in the home's breaker box (aka panel board). Those very nice Carling breakers are designed for use in industrial products.

Not to be overly cautious but most electrical work is best done by "local" professionals who know the applicable codes.

This from HomeDepot is some good advice:

Brand: Always install the correct brand of breakers in your breaker panel. While some breakers are interchangeable, many are not, even if they look the same. Replacing one brand of breaker with another can be dangerous, may void your breaker or panel warranty, and may cause you to fail an electrical inspection. Look on your breaker panel door for information about which breakers are compatible with your panel. Breakers continue to be manufactured for most panels, including older models.

 

[calloway]

will be ordering a Denali 6000S this week. Have been demoing a 2000T from 'The Cable Company' on my amps and separately on my Lumin..Just amazing improvement on both.

 

[cjf]

Hello,

I currently own a Denali 6000T and am currently using it on my front end gear only (Preamp&DAC). This means that right now I still have both HC/Amp recepticals available for use. The Denali is connected to the wall with a 20A Alpha HC power cord.

My question is this, is there any reason to believe that if I also hooked up my amps to the Denali (while still keeping the PreAmp/DAC) that having all these components sharing a single dedicated 20A line would be a limiting configuration?

My amps are Mola Mola Kaluga Mono Blocks which contain an internal fuse value of 8amps each (I think). This would leave about 4amps remaining to power the Pre/DAC combo before hitting the 20amp rating of the receptical in the wall and the Alpha HC cord feeding the Denali itself.

This seems like I would be cutting it close by placing all these components on the 6000T together. With that said, I know I would never really hit the MAX output capability of my amps with my current speaker which are only rated for half of what the amps can supply into a 2ohm load.

Right now I have both amps connected to a Torus RM20 which is then connected to its own 20A receptical. The Torus is said to be good for 2400w.

Long story short, I would love to consolidate all this stuff onto one Power Conditioner which would then allow me to use significantly shorter Interconnects but I do wonder if in doing so I would be taking a step backwards in terms of power supplying capability. In addition, doing this would allow me to maximize my investment in the larger 6000T model I have today. Lord knows, after looking at the cost of an additional 2000T not considering its need for another power cord to the wall I can't help but feel the idegestion build as I look at the costs involved in going that route.

Thanks for any thoughts you can provide.

 

[GrantS]

Hello,

I currently own a Denali 6000T and am currently using it on my front end gear only (Preamp&DAC). This means that right now I still have both HC/Amp recepticals available for use. The Denali is connected to the wall with a 20A Alpha HC power cord.

My question is this, is there any reason to believe that if I also hooked up my amps to the Denali (while still keeping the PreAmp/DAC) that having all these components sharing a single dedicated 20A line would be a limiting configuration?

My amps are Mola Mola Kaluga Mono Blocks which contain an internal fuse value of 8amps each (I think). This would leave about 4amps remaining to power the Pre/DAC combo before hitting the 20amp rating of the receptical in the wall and the Alpha HC cord feeding the Denali itself.

This seems like I would be cutting it close by placing all these components on the 6000T together. With that said, I know I would never really hit the MAX output capability of my amps with my current speaker which are only rated for half of what the amps can supply into a 2ohm load.

Right now I have both amps connected to a Torus RM20 which is then connected to its own 20A receptical. The Torus is said to be good for 2400w.

Long story short, I would love to consolidate all this stuff onto one Power Conditioner which would then allow me to use significantly shorter Interconnects but I do wonder if in doing so I would be taking a step backwards in terms of power supplying capability. In addition, doing this would allow me to maximize my investment in the larger 6000T model I have today. Lord knows, after looking at the cost of an additional 2000T not considering its need for another power cord to the wall I can't help but feel the idegestion build as I look at the costs involved in going that route.

Thanks for any thoughts you can provide.

Hi,

Normally, 2 dedicated lines are preferable to allow for the separation of amps on their own line. 40A of available current split between two lines for an audio system usually offers better performance than a single 20A, assuming the lines are installed correctly . (Many times they are not installed correctly and cause more problems than benefits). I know the Mola Mola amps well, having done many trade shows with my good friend Philip O'hanlon, the US Importer for Mola and Vivid. The Mola's are great amps. Certainly, you would not be over-taxing a 20A line with the Mola's on the Denali HC outlets (we've run them with multiple sources all on a single 15A line at shows). In addition, the HC outlets on Denali's do something _extremely_ positive for amps-- more so than an iso-transformer could, so I believe you will realize a positive result by adding the amps to the Denali 6000T. As always, system context rules so I'll make no guarantee, but based on your information, I would recommend the move. I can assure you that no breaker will be tripped--the Mola's are not that hard on the AC line, and the noise-isolation between outlets in the 6000T is superior to anything we've tested, so there will be no issue with noise. On paper, I believe adding the amps to the HC outlets will be a step up in performance. The Alpha HC power cords, in terms of gauge, are actually more than 30A capable--so you are good there as well.

Of course, after trying the Mola's into the Denali, it would be great to have your feedback so that I may add to the context I use in helping others with similar questions. Although we perform exhaustive testing prior to release, it is the feedback from customers/dealers and professionals over time that give us the most valuable insight into the products performance in a variety of systems.

Thanks, CJF. I hope this helps. I'm available by e-mail or phone if you have any fine-tuning questions.

Best regards,

Grant

 

[Bobvin]

It really is the greatest thing that you Shunyata folks are here on the forum, are quick to respond, answer questions, and provide system specific advice.

Good on you!

I'd love to afford a Triton/Typhon pair, but do you think a Denali would provide a significant step up vs. my Hydra (which I believe is 3rd version)?

 

[Mdp632]

It really is the greatest thing that you Shunyata folks are here on the forum, are quick to respond, answer questions, and provide system specific advice.

Good in you!

I'd love to afford a Triton/Typhon pair, but do you think a Denali would provide a significant step up vs. my Hydra (which I believe is 3rd version)?

I had a Triton V1 (which I guess i newer than your Hydra) but, the Denali bettered it in every aspect. Since I no longer needed 8 outlets the Denali was a clear winner to me.

I highly suggest trying a Denali in your own system. It was a night and day difference for me.

 

[JayR]

Hi

It's been a while since I used a power conditioner since my PS300 gave up the ghost about a year back. I am thinking of trying out a Denali to see if it would offer a tangible benefit improving my systems performance. I am also intrigued to find out if the Denali will make my Devialet perform any better as it looks like Mr. Caelin uses a Devialet in his system. My system is listed in my signature. A modest system that we enjoy a lot.

Can you recommend a Dealer in the Seattle area?

Thanks.
Jay.

 

[Kerkhoffd]

Really interested to read about your findings JayR as my setup is pretty similar and I am wondering the same thing. Denali and new Shunyata EF power cords are not yet available in Europe.

 

[GrantS]

Hi

It's been a while since I used a power conditioner since my PS300 gave up the ghost about a year back. I am thinking of trying out a Denali to see if it would offer a tangible benefit improving my systems performance. I am also intrigued to find out if the Denali will make my Devialet perform any better as it looks like Mr. Caelin uses a Devialet in his system. My system is listed in my signature. A modest system that we enjoy a lot.

Can you recommend a Dealer in the Seattle area?

Thanks.
Jay.

Hi Jay,

Indeed, we did use a Devialet as part of the beta process, as well as a host of other amps such as VAC, ARC, BAT, Luxman and the many different systems of our close industry friends. Our products are expressly designed to work well with all types of amps and source components. The Denali's are indeed passive, quite the opposite of PS Audio designs.

I've owned the original Audio Physic Virgo's, Avanti Century and Caldera models from the original designer. We have done trade shows with Manfred from Audio Physic and we love the way those speakers sound, so you have a great system that will resolve differences easily.

I recommend talking to the guys at Reference Audio in Bellingham about an evaluation. Because we are so close to them, if there is anything you require that they do not currently have on the floor, I'm sure we can help. Denali's come pre-broken in, so you won't have to wait a week or more to determine if the 6000T or S model is a good match for your system. It should be self-evident within a few minutes. They do improve over time, but we are comfortable with how they sound out of the box.

Feel free to call the guys at Reference. If we can be of any support, you can follow up with us as well.

Best regards,

Grant

 

[cjf]

Hi,

Normally, 2 dedicated lines are preferable to allow for the separation of amps on their own line. 40A of available current split between two lines for an audio system usually offers better performance than a single 20A, assuming the lines are installed correctly . (Many times they are not installed correctly and cause more problems than benefits). I know the Mola Mola amps well, having done many trade shows with my good friend Philip O'hanlon, the US Importer for Mola and Vivid. The Mola's are great amps. Certainly, you would not be over-taxing a 20A line with the Mola's on the Denali HC outlets (we've run them with multiple sources all on a single 15A line at shows). In addition, the HC outlets on Denali's do something _extremely_ positive for amps-- more so than an iso-transformer could, so I believe you will realize a positive result by adding the amps to the Denali 6000T. As always, system context rules so I'll make no guarantee, but based on your information, I would recommend the move. I can assure you that no breaker will be tripped--the Mola's are not that hard on the AC line, and the noise-isolation between outlets in the 6000T is superior to anything we've tested, so there will be no issue with noise. On paper, I believe adding the amps to the HC outlets will be a step up in performance. The Alpha HC power cords, in terms of gauge, are actually more than 30A capable--so you are good there as well.

Of course, after trying the Mola's into the Denali, it would be great to have your feedback so that I may add to the context I use in helping others with similar questions. Although we perform exhaustive testing prior to release, it is the feedback from customers/dealers and professionals over time that give us the most valuable insight into the products performance in a variety of systems.

Thanks, CJF. I hope this helps. I'm available by e-mail or phone if you have any fine-tuning questions.

Best regards,

Grant

Thanks for the info Grant, I'll give it a go and report back

 

[Zorro]

Hi,

I have the Shunyata Hydra AV and I plug my Chord Dave and duo-mono amps plus my laptop and some smaller devices to it. I am seriously considering getting the Denali 2000T for the duo-mono amps but not sure which is the best way. Would it be better to plug the Denali straight to the wall or is it possible to plug it to the Hydra AV and still reap benefits for the amps?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.



Best Regards,




Alan

 

[GrantS]

Hi,

I have the Shunyata Hydra AV and I plug my Chord Dave and duo-mono amps plus my laptop and some smaller devices to it. I am seriously considering getting the Denali 2000T for the duo-mono amps but not sure which is the best way. Would it be better to plug the Denali straight to the wall or is it possible to plug it to the Hydra AV and still reap benefits for the amps?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.
Best Regards,
Alan

Hi Alan,

When it comes to amps, the fewer contact points the better between the amps and the wall. The Denali 2000T get around this truism by adding technology that makes peak-current even more available than if they run direct, but if you can avoid going through the Hydra AV, or any other secondary contact junction, you will get better performance from the amps. Most amp manufacturers recommend not plugging their amps into anything but the wall for this reason. Caelin designed a product that is the exception to the rule, but there are very few of these type of products on the market. Less is usually more when plugging amps into anything.

Thanks, Alan. I hope this is of some help.

Best regards,

Grant

 

[GrantS]

Hi,

I have the Shunyata Hydra AV and I plug my Chord Dave and duo-mono amps plus my laptop and some smaller devices to it. I am seriously considering getting the Denali 2000T for the duo-mono amps but not sure which is the best way. Would it be better to plug the Denali straight to the wall or is it possible to plug it to the Hydra AV and still reap benefits for the amps?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.
Best Regards,
Alan

Hi Alan,

When it comes to amps, the fewer contact points the better between the amps and the wall. The Denali 2000T get around this truism by adding technology that makes peak-current even more available than if they run direct, but if you can avoid going through the Hydra AV, or any other secondary contact junction, you will get better performance from the amps. Most amp manufacturers recommend not plugging their amps into anything but the wall for this reason. Caelin designed a product that is the exception to the rule, but there are very few of these type of products on the market. Less is usually more when plugging amps into anything.

Thanks, Alan. I hope this is of some help.

Best regards,

Grant

 

[Zorro]

Hi Alan,

When it comes to amps, the fewer contact points the better between the amps and the wall. The Denali 2000T get around this truism by adding technology that makes peak-current even more available than if they run direct, but if you can avoid going through the Hydra AV, or any other secondary contact junction, you will get better performance from the amps. Most amp manufacturers recommend not plugging their amps into anything but the wall for this reason. Caelin designed a product that is the exception to the rule, but there are very few of these type of products on the market. Less is usually more when plugging amps into anything.

Thanks, Alan. I hope this is of some help.

Best regards,

Grant

Thanks very much for the information, Grant. Much appreciated.



Best Regards,





Alan

 

[notme]

I want to add my voice to the chorus praising the Denali. I got a 6000/S which was an immediately-clear improvement in every way over the Alpha Model-2 w/SSF that I was using previously. I haven't noticed any changes over the next ~50 hours, so KPIP works for me. I did have to put a bit of electrical tape over the blinding blue light on the front panel. Thanks to all at Shunyata for another great product!