SME 3009 S2 and MC cartridges

[F456GTM]

Hello Chaps,

After fifty seven years trying to find an audio nirvana I am now using a SME 3009 S2 not- improved which, according to the UK SME Gods, is incompatible with MC cartridges. My two previous tonearms were a Goldmund T3F and a Breuer Dynamic Type 8.

My dear British friends keep chastising me for even thinking of trying to install a MC cartridge in my 3009. They say that there's too much mechanical energy floating around from the cartridge, especially in those SME 'cheese grater' headshells that are known to flex. Those SME knife edge bearings simply aren't designed to be rigid. They'll 'work' but not optimally, with resonances compromising arm behaviour / tracking performance, and may increase stylus wear and record damage. So, I ended with an AT 440MLB.

Then, out of the blue, browsing through the Media forum, I came across Steve Williams turntable/cartridge set-up, I simply could not believe my eyes, I was left dumbfounded, my head shaking in desbelief. A pair of old SME 3009 S2, like mine, mounted on an Air Force One, one arm with a ZYX Universe Premium cartridge and the other one with a Van den Hul Colibri Signature Stradivarius.

Does anyone care to comment?

Cheers,

Horacio

 

[ddk]

Hello Chaps,

After fifty seven years trying to find an audio nirvana I am now using a SME 3009 S2 not- improved which, according to the UK SME Gods, is incompatible with MC cartridges. My two previous tonearms were a Goldmund T3F and a Breuer Dynamic Type 8.

My dear British friends keep chastising me for even thinking of trying to install a MC cartridge in my 3009. They say that there's too much mechanical energy floating around from the cartridge, especially in those SME 'cheese grater' headshells that are known to flex. Those SME knife edge bearings simply aren't designed to be rigid. They'll 'work' but not optimally, with resonances compromising arm behaviour / tracking performance, and may increase stylus wear and record damage. So, I ended with an AT 440MLB.

Then, out of the blue, browsing through the Media forum, I came across Steve Williams turntable/cartridge set-up, I simply could not believe my eyes, I was left dumbfounded, my head shaking in desbelief. A pair of old SME 3009 S2, like mine, mounted on an Air Force One, one arm with a ZYX Universe Premium cartridge and the other one with a Van den Hul Colibri Signature Stradivarius.

Does anyone care to comment?

Cheers,

Horacio

Horacio,
SME Series II Improved or -R type. which Steve and many others use here is different from your S2. The issue isn't the bearing but the arm wand material, your S2 is aluminum and Series II Improved -R type is steel.

david

 

[F456GTM]

David,

Noted, but the headshells and knife edge bearings are the same in both.

Regards,

Horacio

 

[ddk]

David,

Noted, but the headshells and knife edge bearings are the same in both.

Regards,

Horacio

It's the same type of bearing design but not interchangeable, the head shells are all the same.

david

 

[analogsa]

The 3012mk2 and Denon 103 is a classic combo. No reason the 3009 won't work with many MCs.

 

[steve williams]

Hello Chaps,

After fifty seven years trying to find an audio nirvana I am now using a SME 3009 S2 not- improved which, according to the UK SME Gods, is incompatible with MC cartridges. My two previous tonearms were a Goldmund T3F and a Breuer Dynamic Type 8.

My dear British friends keep chastising me for even thinking of trying to install a MC cartridge in my 3009. They say that there's too much mechanical energy floating around from the cartridge, especially in those SME 'cheese grater' headshells that are known to flex. Those SME knife edge bearings simply aren't designed to be rigid. They'll 'work' but not optimally, with resonances compromising arm behaviour / tracking performance, and may increase stylus wear and record damage. So, I ended with an AT 440MLB.

Then, out of the blue, browsing through the Media forum, I came across Steve Williams turntable/cartridge set-up, I simply could not believe my eyes, I was left dumbfounded, my head shaking in desbelief. A pair of old SME 3009 S2, like mine, mounted on an Air Force One, one arm with a ZYX Universe Premium cartridge and the other one with a Van den Hul Colibri Signature Stradivarius.

Does anyone care to comment?

Cheers,

Horacio

hi Horacio

as David said mine is different. It’s a 3010R and my other is a 3012R. My sound is wonderful. There is a huge SME tonearm following here thanks to ddk

 

[F456GTM]

The 3012mk2 and Denon 103 is a classic combo. No reason the 3009 won't work with many MCs.

I had a Denon DL-103R and I did not like it, neither in the SME nor in an AT ATP12T, I was hoping to get a Koetsu Black.

 

[Alrainbow]

The 3012mk2 and Denon 103 is a classic combo. No reason the 3009 won't work with many MCs.

So is the issue MC or Cart compliance ..?

 

[Alrainbow]

I had a Denon DL-103R and I did not like it, neither in the SME nor in an AT ATP12T, I was hoping to get a Koetsu Black.

What Arm resonance were you seeing

 

[F456GTM]

No issues, I just did not like the way it sounded, no sparkle, no life.

 

[analogsa]

No issues, I just did not like the way it sounded, no sparkle, no life.

Liking the 103 is a different matter. To me it sounded better in the 3012 than in a 4P where it had even less sparkle and life.

 

[F456GTM]

It was probably uncompatibility that made it sound dull. Accuracy is not a matter of taste.

 

[PeterA]

It was probably uncompatibility that made it sound dull. Accuracy is not a matter of taste.

This may be true, but how is accuracy to be assessed? Accuracy to what reference: live music, a mic feed, or the first generation recording? Some listeners do not care about accuracy per se but prefer listening to a flavor they enjoy. I think both accuracy to live and personal taste is why we have so many different components and systems, almost no one having the same approach with the gear they choose.

 

[sktn77a]

The 3012mk2 and Denon 103 is a classic combo. No reason the 3009 won't work with many MCs.

Resurrecting an old thread here with some more personal experience. I had a Denon DL103D (can't speak to the lower compliance DL103 or DL103R) and it worked like a charm in an SME3009/S2 (not improved) on a TD125 turntable. "Conventional wisdom" says this combination should have been a disaster.

 

[Don_Camillo]

It´s all about effective mass and the MC cartridges compliance that needs to match.
Sorry, but what is written about arm tube material on the 3009 is nonsense. Otherwise enthusiasts around the world would not be happy with 99% of all tonearms. Aluminum is a very common material for the arm wand.

The early SME 3009 (Series 1 and Series 2) have a significantly higher effective mass than the later improved models, which are more intended for pickups with high compliance and are therefore predestined for MM pickups.

The big differences are:

- Series 1 - Steel arm tube, steel knife edge, effective mass might be higher as with Series 2, but I do not know
- Series 2 - Aluminum arm tube, steel knife edge, effective mass = 12.5 gr
- SME 3009 R - stainless steel arm tube, nylon knife edge, effective mass = 12.7 gr

- SME 3009 Improved - Aluminum arm tube, fixed headshell, nylon knife edge, effective mass = 6.5 gr

- SME 3009 S2 Improved - Aluminum arm tube, interchangeable headshell, nylon knife edge, effective mass = 9.5 g

All cartridges with weight and compliance that are in the green range will fit to a SME 3009 Series 2 or SME 3009-R




Additionally you can use a heavier headshell to raise effective mass a bit either but this may also require a heavier counterweight as well as a heavier/ the optional subweight for tracking force