So, should you isolate your cartridge or not?

[Urbinator]

So, while playing around recently with the Hana Umami Red, I felt uncomfortable with the tonearm being in direct contact with the cartridge; I decided to try a little tweak from a UK company that claims this will enhance the sound. So, I installed it, did the usual checks and sat back. Yes, it changed the sound; the percussive attack was reduced, and the sound stage had become more narrow. It had made the overall sound of the cartridge less lively. I played around with VTA, but this wasn't a VTA issue, and I had adjusted the arm with the additional height.

I'm just curious about people's thoughts on isolating the cartridge from the tonearm and if anyone has had any better results.

Turntable is the Bergmann Galder with the Thor tonearm

 

[Young Skywalker]

The cartridge and tonearm should funnel resonances away from the delicate stylus/cantilever mechanism. Isolating the cartridge would trap resonances and lead to the sort of sonic results you described.

 

[mtemur]

So, while playing around recently with the Hana Umami Red, I felt uncomfortable with the tonearm being in direct contact with the cartridge;

Why?

Yes, it changed the sound; the percussive attack was reduced, and the sound stage had become more narrow. It had made the overall sound of the cartridge less lively.

It is a clear indication of ruining the sound of your cartridge and turntable. It also means that it is very effective absorbing details, dynamics and reducing your cartridge's value to 1/4.

UK company that claims this will enhance the sound.

All tweak manufacturers claim the same but only a few really does enhance the sound. The rest simply alter the sound and almost always in a bad way. IMHO there are two completely unnecessary decoupling tweaks (besides many); the rubber or spring types under speakers and in-between cartridge and tonearm.

 

[Urbinator]

Main concern was the was some dulling of the lacquer where the cartridge and tonearm were in contact. The lacquer is soft and easily damaged. Something I can live with but there is a possibility of the two surfaces reacting over time.

Yes it was a useful lesson.

 

[mtemur]

Main concern was the was some dulling of the lacquer where the cartridge and tonearm were in contact. The lacquer is soft and easily damaged. Something I can live with but there is a possibility of the two surfaces reacting over time.

Yes it was a useful lesson.

A cartridge is a consumable product which has app. 500 hrs stylus lifetime. Keeping this in mind there shouldn't be a concern of scratching lacquer finish on the cartridge but on the other hand I understand your desire to keep it in pristine condition. I wouldn't care lacquer finish when SQ is at stake but that's just me.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I was considering the Audio Machina V8 and Funk Firm Houdini cartridge isolators, but especially re the latter, there were just too many mixed reviews out there to take the idea further.

 

[Urbinator]

I was considering the Audio Machina V8 and Funk Firm Houdini cartridge isolators, but especially re the latter, there were just too many mixed reviews out there to take the idea further.

I have the Funk Firm Houdini, which I used with an Ortofon Jubilee on a SME tone arm. The deck was a Michell Gyrodec. I think it’s better than Origin Lives -Cartridge enabler, as it did help isolate the cartridge from the deck. But I think better isolation on the deck may have been a better solution as it make setting azimuth a challenge.

Pretty sure I still have it and you are welcome to try it. It’s pretty obsolete to me.

 

[Urbinator]

A cartridge is a consumable product which has app. 500 hrs stylus lifetime. Keeping this in mind there shouldn't be a concern of scratching lacquer finish on the cartridge but on the other hand I understand your desire to keep it in pristine condition. I wouldn't care lacquer finish when SQ is at stake but that's just me.

500 hours, ouch. That’s £6 an hour for the Umami Red after accounting for 50 hours break in

 

[Lynnot]

"Isolation" by involving one of the devices mentioned before may improve sound if you use a sub-optimal cartrigde/ headshell/ tonearm combination. Good matching will elliminate the need for these devices.

Best regards, Tony

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mr. Urbinator here has been kind enough to forward me his Funk Firm Houdini cart isolator.
I had ummed and arred about trying this, finding the designer's prose a little too, um, prosaic, and user reviews being mixed to say the least.
But having gone from a 12mm high mat to a 6mm one, the shortfall of 6mm is perfectly matched by running the Houdini, my only other alternative being what I'd currently been doing ie 6mm carbon fibre spacing slips.
So, the Houdini is replacing those slips, and augments the recent major upticks of Acoustic Revive RTS30 mat and Origin Live Gravity One puck (plus SPI Westek de-ioniser and Airlink isolation transformer on my air arm pump).
My expectations were low, I'm not sure what my feelings about moderate floating in a cart were, but then again my air bearing LT tonearm floats.
Maybe the more buoys you have, the better, lol.
--
Initial impressions are really favourable.
Bass most noticeably improved, a whole new level of articulation and heft.
Treble is really airy and clear.
Mids very sweet and smooth.
No apparent standout biases or frequency band anomalies.
--
I have theories as to why this works here but not in all systems.
There may be a price point/engineering level where this device is surplus to requirements.
My tonearm is a fascinating piece of tech, but it's built to a price.
Maybe this device really works well on air bearing LTs.
And at this point in the hobby, it's the small details that seal the deal.
Critically also, the carbon fibre slips I had been using were likely a disadvantage, eliminating these has been a boon, the Houdini much better suited to achieving me this 6mm I've needed PLUS also working as advertised.
A real find this far in my analog front end evolution and refinement.

 

[Urbinator]

It's great to hear that it has made an improvement.
It sounds as though it is managing to absorb some of those unwanted vibrations and yet still hold the cartridge in the optimal position. I did not try the device on my arm but did try the Origin Live Optimizer, which was not beneficial. That was as far as I got. I was listening to Lee Morgan—Side Winder last night after our conversation, and I must say I am really impressed with the Bergmann / Hana combination.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Lee, these devices are all YMMV, maybe more than other tweaks.
And in relation to price point engineering.
I'm getting improvements across the board, genuinely counter to what I was expecting.

 

[mtemur]

It sounds as though it is managing to absorb some of those unwanted vibrations and yet still hold the cartridge in the optimal position.

How do you know that it only absorbs unwanted vibrations and not affecting cartridge?

 

[Urbinator]

How do you know that it only absorbs unwanted vibrations and not affecting cartridge?

I don't, but I do know that SpiritOfMusic is stating that it is making improvements to playback. Is that not a good thing?

 

[Lynnot]

Well, it sounds better than carbon spacers.

 

[mtemur]

I don't, but I do know that SpiritOfMusic is stating that it is making improvements to playback. Is that not a good thing?

I just wonder what were those unwanted vibrations that you're referring to and what were their effect on cartridge. Thanks for your response.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, it sounds better than carbon spacers.

Yes, one could say that's the deciding factor. But I've only run those spacers for a few weeks, my arm sans spacers for over a decade in total. So I know the basic sonic signature of my arm, and the Houdini has truly upped the ante.
The fact that it's so superior to the spacers suggests not that the spacers were that poor, but that the Houdini is this good.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Here's another reason to not use the spacers, you lose the ability to adjust/flavor sound by using headshells of various construction materials.

 

[spiritofmusic]

That's not relevant to my arm, it's 5" long one-piece flat carbon fibre.