Speakers for Pass Labs Electronics ?

cal3713

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Nov 2, 2020
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I tried both an xa30.5 and x250.5 on thiel cs2.4s (88dB(B)/2.83V/m) and ended up with the 30.5.

I'll never argue against a higher sensitivity speaker, but Nelson rates his amplifiers conservatively and you may be surprised at your amp's ability to drive non-optimal loads.
 

MtnHam

Industry Expert
Jan 12, 2014
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Thank you very kindly, @MtnHam !

This requirement pretty much says No Tannoy's, no Magico's, and no SoundLab's or Quad's either... I am lost and just devastated, frankly.
Should I consider X series (97 dB 1W/1M sensitivity) from Spatial Audio? Does not look like these OB designs are popular among the experts here...
Any alternatives, please?
There are many other amps in the Pass Lab line that will handle these speakers. The X series which are Class A/B, are considerably less expensive than the XA series. The X-250.5 is well regarded, and can be found used at less than $5K- an example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pass-Labs-...er-X-250-5-Upgraded-Power-Cable-/333934167451
 

abrich

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Mar 6, 2012
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I tried both an xa30.5 and x250.5 on thiel cs2.4s (88dB(B)/2.83V/m) and ended up with the 30.5.
To say the least, I am very surprised my little amp can drive such difficult loads. This definitely gives me more possibilities! Could you please recommend me a few sub-10K models to consider?
There are many other amps in the Pass Lab line that will handle these speakers.
Do you know, by any chance, when will Reno Hi-Fi become operational after the move?
 

cal3713

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To say the least, I am very surprised my little amp can drive such difficult loads. This definitely gives me more possibilities! Could you please recommend me a few sub-10K models to consider?
Have you reached out to Pass to ask?

Unfortunately I don't really have enough experience with different speaker models to make any additional suggestions, but I imagine an email like - "I have this model amp and was wondering if you've heard any particularly compelling pairings with a speaker under 10k" would get a good response.
 

Motoman

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Jul 24, 2021
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I have a Pass Labs 250.8 with an MSB Discrete DAC and Premier Power Base directly into the Pass. I have a small room, 11x11x11, so I have monitors -- Focal Diablo Utopia III's (about 90db efficiency) and a pair of Joseph Audio Pulsars (83db). Pass drives either as loud as I want to listen, which is no more than 95db or so. Off topic, but the conundrum I face is that the Focal's are better for well-recorded music. The Pulsars are more forgiving of crappy recordings. Ironically, I have a lot of Led Zep soundboards and Pink Floyd boots, so I am looking for that mythical combo where Good recordings sound great and crappy recordings don't hurt my ears!
 

Mikem53

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Oct 1, 2020
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I'm all in with Pass Labs. I have the 250.8---XP 12---and my phono pre is the XP 17. I have used electostatics for over 20 years, and for the last 4 years have used Martin Logan Montis's.

As much as I love my current speakers, I'm getting the itch to transition into a non electrostatic. One of the speakers I'm considering is the Harbeth 40.2's. The problem is I really have no audio stores in my neck of the woods. Let alone a Harbeth dealer.

My question is...what speakers are you using with your Pass Labs setup? I'm really open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

BTW- My listening room is 14x25 with a vaulted ceiling.
I was in a similar situation and had a pair of Harbeth 40.2’s on order. I had Just sold my Focal Electra 1038’s and wanted a more relaxed top end with that magical midrange I keep reading about.. I could not find any local to me to try or listen to. I then had a chance to hear a pair of Daedalus speakers Locally. I was hooked and purchased a pair of Daedalus Athena V2 speakers and couldn’t be happier! Since then, i have heard the Harbeth 40.2 and the 30’s in the same system running in parallel Driven by Cary 805’s.
The Harbeth setup sounded great tonality wise, but I didnt Like the lack of proper imaging using 4 speakers. The reason he was using the 30s in addition to the 40.2’s was the recessed mid range. Adding the 30’s Gave the mid range more presence, but I found it distracting and not a practical solution.
At the time, I was using the Pass XA25 amp, now replaced with the First Watt SIT3.
 

Audire

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Jan 18, 2019
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Presently Magico A3s, but deciding on an upgrade to Magico M2 or M3. Great synergy with Pass and Magico.
 

Mikem53

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2020
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To say the least, I am very surprised my little amp can drive such difficult loads. This definitely gives me more possibilities! Could you please recommend me a few sub-10K models to consider?

Do you know, by any chance, when will Reno Hi-Fi become operational after the move?
They should be up and running from AZ this month according to their website news..
 

English210

New Member
Jan 13, 2022
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I just bought a 250.8 from them. It is making my Aerial 7T’s stand up and dance!! Yes, I’m a recent owner with the newness of the upgrade still breaking in, but I’m very happy. My room is 12 1/2’ x 19 1/2’ x 8. I’ve had the Aerials about 8 years. My frame of reference is admittedly narrow, but I have heard a few systems at my local dealer, Wilsons and Vandersteens on D’Agostino, Prima Luna tubes, and AR, and I don’t think I’m missing much.
 

BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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Congratulations. My Magico S5 replaced my Aerial Acoustics 7T, but they sounded great, and still sound great in my second stereo/HT system.
 
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English210

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Jan 13, 2022
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Congratulations. My Magico S5 replaced my Aerial Acoustics 7T, but they sounded great, and still sound great in my second stereo/HT system.
Listening last night, I had to check (twice, but I’m stupid like that) that the sub wasn’t engaged. I’ve never heard bass like that from them! They are just shy of 4’ from the front wall, about 2 1/2’ from the side walls. In my family room as part of the HT but ‘reference stereo’ on the processor bypasses the sub and all processing and sounds good. The Odyssey and Aerials have been paired for upwards of 8 years, and now this amp comes in it’s a whole new world! Knowing that I’m only a couple of steps up Pass’ ladder makes me even more impressed.
 

Motoman

Member
Jul 24, 2021
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I have a Pass Labs 250.8 with an MSB Discrete DAC and Premier Power Base directly into the Pass. I have a small room, 11x11x11, so I have monitors -- Focal Diablo Utopia III's (about 90db efficiency) and a pair of Joseph Audio Pulsars (83db). Pass drives either as loud as I want to listen, which is no more than 95db or so. Off topic, but the conundrum I face is that the Focal's are better for well-recorded music. The Pulsars are more forgiving of crappy recordings. Ironically, I have a lot of Led Zep soundboards and Pink Floyd boots, so I am looking for that mythical combo where Good recordings sound great and crappy recordings don't hurt my ears!
A few major updates to this post. Since then, I have gotten a pair of Wilson Audio Sabrina X’s that have replaced the Focal’s and the Joseph Audio’s. The Sabrina’s do a great job on both well recorded music and bootlegs And the Pass 250.8 really makes them sing. I also put in an ARC REF6 which jacked the sound up significantly. I then replaced my various Morrow cables with Shunyata Alpha’s and that made yet another not small improvement. Finally, I replaced my REL Strata III sub with a REL s/510. I highly recommend the Sabrina X’s . . . Great speakers with Pass!
Just as a side observation, I think that it shows how good the preamp section of the MSB Discrete is that I had to drop $$$ on the REF6 to get a worthwhile improvement in sound quality!
 
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TommyTunes

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Jan 16, 2012
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I'm all in with Pass Labs. I have the 250.8---XP 12---and my phono pre is the XP 17. I have used electostatics for over 20 years, and for the last 4 years have used Martin Logan Montis's.

As much as I love my current speakers, I'm getting the itch to transition into a non electrostatic. One of the speakers I'm considering is the Harbeth 40.2's. The problem is I really have no audio stores in my neck of the woods. Let alone a Harbeth dealer.

My question is...what speakers are you using with your Pass Labs setup? I'm really open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

BTW- My listening room is 14x25 with a vaulted ceiling.
I’m using Pass XP22, XP17 and X250.8 with Harbeth 40.3XD’s it’s great combination. You are lucky with the size of your room it should work great, unfortunately my room is only 16 feet long so my chair is 8’ center and it needs to be about 3’ further back.
 

Hasse

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Jan 11, 2016
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Anyone driving Magnepans with Pass Labs amps?
I’m leaning towards X260.8 or X350.8 but I am also interested in the Gryphon Diablo 300 and D’Agostino Progression int, both integrated amps.
Diablo has more current into low impedance loads but it seems like the Maggie 3.7’s don’t have any low impedance dips.
Diablo: 238 A
X350.8: 43 A
 

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Axel C

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Nov 30, 2022
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I’ve been using Wilson Watt Puppy 7 with Pass XA25/XP22 as well as the First Watt SIT3 and Pass X350.8. Digital via Denefrips Terminator Plus (streaming thru a Bluesound Node 2i; analog via a Linn LP12 Klimax (Exstatik cart.) and assortment of Audioquest & Linn interconnects/power cords, and Transparent Ultra speaker cables. Room is 22’ x 22’ with a A-frame ceiling (centered on axis) that peaks at 24’.

In a nutshell, the Wilson/Pass combo is superb and the speaker’s efficiency allows excellent performance from the 18-wpc SIT3, which is by quite a margin the most satisfying of the three amplifiers. Only limited by moderate volume levels via digital input (the LP12 has considerable more gain), 18 watts goes a long way and the warmth, detail, and transparency are top notch. At the other end, the 350.8’s only benefit is at elevated volume levels with rock/pop or anything where LOUD is an essential element of the experience. By comparison, it’s essentially unlistenable with jazz/vocals/insteumental music at moderate or lower volumes next to the SIT. The XA25 is the happy compromise, with adequate power for all but the most demanding all-out rock outs, while still very satisfying across all genres.

Despite being over 15 years old, the WP7 remains and extraordinary and competitive speaker for its size and an outstanding match with Pass/First Watt.
 

Benleo56

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Jan 3, 2021
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I’ve been using Wilson Watt Puppy 7 with Pass XA25/XP22 as well as the First Watt SIT3 and Pass X350.8. Digital via Denefrips Terminator Plus (streaming thru a Bluesound Node 2i; analog via a Linn LP12 Klimax (Exstatik cart.) and assortment of Audioquest & Linn interconnects/power cords, and Transparent Ultra speaker cables. Room is 22’ x 22’ with a A-frame ceiling (centered on axis) that peaks at 24’.

In a nutshell, the Wilson/Pass combo is superb and the speaker’s efficiency allows excellent performance from the 18-wpc SIT3, which is by quite a margin the most satisfying of the three amplifiers. Only limited by moderate volume levels via digital input (the LP12 has considerable more gain), 18 watts goes a long way and the warmth, detail, and transparency are top notch. At the other end, the 350.8’s only benefit is at elevated volume levels with rock/pop or anything where LOUD is an essential element of the experience. By comparison, it’s essentially unlistenable with jazz/vocals/insteumental music at moderate or lower volumes next to the SIT. The XA25 is the happy compromise, with adequate power for all but the most demanding all-out rock outs, while still very satisfying across all genres.

Despite being over 15 years old, the WP7 remains and extraordinary and competitive speaker for its size and an outstanding match with Pass/First Watt.
Dear Axel,

Are you using a pre-amp between the Terminator Plus and the First Watt SIT3? Didn't see one.
Have an Audio Research GSi75, but am tempted to buy a Pass Labs or First Watt. Listen to mostly vocals, jazz, blues and some R&B. Grew up in the 60s and 70s so on occasion go back to rock from the period. Sounds like you recommend the XA25 as the compromise. But which do you prefer for piano, organ and vocals?
 

cal3713

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Nov 2, 2020
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Dear Axel,

Are you using a pre-amp between the Terminator Plus and the First Watt SIT3? Didn't see one.
Have an Audio Research GSi75, but am tempted to buy a Pass Labs or First Watt. Listen to mostly vocals, jazz, blues and some R&B. Grew up in the 60s and 70s so on occasion go back to rock from the period. Sounds like you recommend the XA25 as the compromise. But which do you prefer for piano, organ and vocals?
I have tried a number of Pass amps (X250.5, XA30.5, XA25, SIT2, F4, & DIY-SIT3), and I think you just have to demo what you can to make a decision. Especially with the First Watt line, I think differences in ears, systems, and speaker efficiency really impact what any particular customer prefers. Everything I've tried from Nelson sounded remarkably different.

I'll note that I've also used a number of non-Pass amps (Lyngdorf, Atmasphere, Coincident, McIntosh, Classe)... with one system I settled in on an XA-30.5, in another, Coincident Frankenstein 300b monoblocks, and finally First Watt F4 monoblocks in my most recent.
 

Ivodam

New Member
Dec 31, 2022
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57
I'm all in with Pass Labs. I have the 250.8---XP 12---and my phono pre is the XP 17. I have used electostatics for over 20 years, and for the last 4 years have used Martin Logan Montis's.

As much as I love my current speakers, I'm getting the itch to transition into a non electrostatic. One of the speakers I'm considering is the Harbeth 40.2's. The problem is I really have no audio stores in my neck of the woods. Let alone a Harbeth dealer.

My question is...what speakers are you using with your Pass Labs setup? I'm really open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

BTW- My listening room is 14x25 with a vaulted ceiling.

Hi Krelldog,

I am quite happy with my setup, comprising Passlabs X-17, X1 and XA25 plus Tannoy Prestige Glenair 15. These Tannoy speakers have 95 dB sensitivity and to me they are the perfect match. Speaker cables - Cardas Iridium.
 

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Axel C

New Member
Nov 30, 2022
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Dear Axel,

Are you using a pre-amp between the Terminator Plus and the First Watt SIT3? Didn't see one.
Have an Audio Research GSi75, but am tempted to buy a Pass Labs or First Watt. Listen to mostly vocals, jazz, blues and some R&B. Grew up in the 60s and 70s so on occasion go back to rock from the period. Sounds like you recommend the XA25 as the compromise. But which do you prefer for piano, organ and vocals?
Yes, using the Pass XP22.

To me, the SIT3 is by a solid margin the most impressive up to moderate listening levels. As I mentioned in my post, my Linn LP12 has considerable gain and with that I really don’t need the XA25. But with digital streaming (which I use a lot), the XA25 provides the extra power (despite its 25 wpc rating). Stereophile testing indicated ~80 wpc at clipping. I would not use any of their non Class-A models for the music you referenced. Hope that helps.
 

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