State-of-the-Art Digital

[morricab]

Listening to it for 2 days now .
I actually find it quit an achievement i have been able to listen to cd for that long

For me it looks like i would rank this under sota digital compared to tape
Meitner MA 2 used as transport..
If a ml 30.6 ref comes along i might buy it as well

View attachment 64686

Go for a 30.5 instead...it uses a better DAC chipset...or a 35.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Go for a 30.5 instead...it uses a better DAC chipset...or a 35.

Unfortunately you werent on the madrigal design team back then to tell them face to face
That their upgrade was rubbish lol.

 

[morricab]

Unfortunately you werent on the madrigal design team back then to tell them face to face
That their upgrade was rubbish lol.

I just know the UltraAnalog DAC D20400A is a damn good dac module and likely the move was cost driven. I have a Kinergetics research Ultra DAC that has that chip and it was $4000 back in 1992. The non-Ultra version of the same DAC (using a good multi-bit BB I think from that time) was $2000 cheaper. So, a huge part of the cost was in those DAC modules.

 

[Kingrex]

I also find the server to be a substantial impact on the dac. I also have the matching Mojo Audio Deja Vu server. One of the biggest sonic gains to my digital. I have upgraded my server 5 or so times. Each to a significant benefit. The last upgrade for me was having the brand new root ram software installed. A software change from Windows to Linux was hands down one of the best moves I made in digital.

A few here in the MSB Select crowd think a server does nothing and laud over a simple Nuc. Then you have the SG advocates.

I was noticing in the latest TAS there is all sorts of mention of servers in the Florida expo section. The value of the server is under appreciated in my view. Heck, all that's pouring forth on this thread is dac, dac, dac. I'm personally shocked at all the people spending $20k and up on a dac and feed it with a laptop. I don't believe any dac can filter/reconstitute/cleanse the source if the source is dirty. I don't buy bits are bits. If it were true, SG, Innuos, Aurender, Sonore would not be so well bespoke

 

[rblnr]

Congrats, Al lol.
Your story has some parallel in my choice of Eera Tentation, invisible in the marketplace when I bought it 7 yrs ago, and invisible now.
On investigating it, I found out that none other than Albert Von Schweikert rated it over the usual suspects in 2010 at multiples of the price. And that in one group comparison after another, it came out on top.
And then on trial for this all to become apparent immediately.
It remains an unadulterated joy, and that joy just a bit more real seeing the prices for digital escalate.
And now as I consider streaming, I see the vying of likely fantastic dacs at the sub $7k price band, each of which I'm sure punch well above their weight, incl MHDT, Holo Springs, Schiit and Denafrips.
Indeed my favoured one here is the cheapest, but the buzz online is so overwheming, and backed up by fantastic feedback from an extremely fussy and experienced audiophile.

And now, back to the spendy stuff where the marketing slice alone of each SOTA dac would buy multiples of the dacs I consider more interesting.

Haven't heard one of their DACs or players recently, but I think the EERA stuff is phenomenal. Reviewed their top player years ago, and it was the best CD player I'd heard to that point. A real sense of drive, but great depth, natural smoothness and resolution to the presentation.

IMO, having done a decent amount of A/Bing over the years, I think out of the major components in the chain: DACs, preamps, amps, and certainly speakers, DACs are where the least value is as you spend more.

I'll corroborate those who find some DACs that convert to DSD somewhat soft and lacking in transient snap. Have heard this in another of these designs, and my PS Audio certainly sounds this way (which is why I'm moving on from it), though whether that sound is from the conversion and/or because PS likes to voice many of its components toward (their idea of) analog, I don't know.

 

[sbnx]

Listening to it for 2 days now .
I actually find it quit an achievement i have been able to listen to cd for that long

For me it looks like i would rank this under sota digital compared to tape
Meitner MA 2 used as transport..
If a ml 30.6 ref comes along i might buy it as well

I used to own a ML 31.5/35 combo. It was nice digital in its day. I am always amazed when I see what people are asking for these on audiogon. I mean we are talking 20-25 year old digital here. The same money buys a brand new modern DAC that well outperforms a No.35 or a 30.5. For example, compare what was then SOTA jitter performance of the 30.5 with almost anything available today at that pricepoint and we are beating it by at least an order of magnitude.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Haven't heard one of their DACs or players recently, but I think the EERA stuff is phenomenal. Reviewed one of their top player years ago, and it was the best CD player I'd heard to that point. A real sense of drive, but great depth, natural smoothness and resolution to the presentation.

IMO, having done a decent amount of A/Bing over the years, I think out of the major components in the chain: DACs, preamps, amps, and certainly speakers, DACs are where the least value is as you spend more.

I'll corroborate those who find some DACs that convert to DSD some what soft and lacking in transient snap. Have heard this in another of these designs, and my PS Audio certainly sounds this way (which is why I'm moving on from it), though whether that sound is from the conversion and/or because PS likes to voice many of its components toward (their idea of) analog, I don't know.

Robert, you may be interested to know it was yr very review in PF that inspired me to seek out the Tentation. Rarely has a review so captured the essence of a component. I had been running an Emm Labs CDSA SE up to that point and was in no way unhappy w it. But yr review really chimed w me, I was intrigued by online user reviews that were wall to wall ecstatic, and impressed by the personal recommendation of Albert Von Schwiekert. I mean, it would have been so easy of him as a wealthy audiophile and designer to promote DCS or whatever else was uber spendy in 2010.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I realize that im deaf by saying that i think this 360 S sounds at least as good as todays so called sota digital probably better , its all fine .
To be honest i take most audiophiles with a grain of salt any way .
Most of their systems with power conditioners and super expensive cables have nothing to do with reality , they sound juiced and overly smooth to me

 

[jh901]

I'll corroborate those who find some DACs that convert to DSD some what soft and lacking in transient snap. Have heard this in another of these designs, and my PS Audio certainly sounds this way (which is why I'm moving on from it), though whether that sound is from the conversion and/or because PS likes to voice many of its components toward (their idea of) analog, I don't know.

Is it the opinion in this forum, generally, that PS Audio DirectStream has competitive word clock, power supplies, and analog section of even the fully upgraded MPS-5? I do hope you try the '8' series. I'd wager that there's no comparison at all.

IMO, having done a decent amount of A/Bing over the years, I think out of the major components in the chain: DACs, preamps, amps, and certainly speakers, DACs are where the least value is as you spend more.

Yet the whole system falls apart if any of those, including digital front end, are decidedly weak links. Power cords, signal cables, and distribution/conditioning are the foundation though.

 

[spiritofmusic]

And Robert, so good has the Eera proved to be, that this digital agnostic finally became a real fan of the humble 5" silver disc...to the point of using it as the benchmark to improve my analog twds. I know that's poison to some died in the wool digiphobes, but it's worked 100% for me. No way would I have persisted w the combination of Terminator LT arm and LPSd Soundsmith Straingauge cart without the Eera as comparator for my analog.

 

[jh901]

I realize that im deaf by saying that i think this 360 S sounds at least as good as todays so called sota digital probably better , its all fine .

What is a 360 S?

To be honest i take most audiophiles with a grain of salt any way .

Why? Audiophiles are enthusiasts. Many of them very informed. Sort of short sighted on your part.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Mark levinson 360S dac its from the late nineties begimning of 2000.
Mine has been checked /revised though

 

[rblnr]

Robert, you may be interested to know it was yr very review in PF that inspired me to seek out the Tentation. Rarely has a review so captured the essence of a component. I had been running an Emm Labs CDSA SE up to that point and was in no way unhappy w it. But yr review really chimed w me, I was intrigued by online user reviews that were wall to wall ecstatic, and impressed by the personal recommendation of Albert Von Schwiekert. I mean, it would have been so easy of him as a wealthy audiophile and designer to promote DCS or whatever else was uber spendy in 2010.

Hey, thanks for saying so and glad to hear. I try

And yeah, AVS was informally distributing EERA then; it's thru him that I got may review unit. As everybody knows here, it's extremely tough to break into that high end circle of a few manufacturers at the top end of the food chain in any category. I'd be surprised if the the top-of-line EERA DAC didn't compete w/the best of MSB, DCS, ETC out there for less money, but there's no distribution here in the US for it.

 

[andromedaaudio]

What is a 360 S?




Why? Audiophiles are enthusiasts. Many of them very informed. Sort of short sighted on your part.

Its my opinion thats all , they buy what they want and tune their systems accordingly

 

[jh901]

Mark levinson 360S dac its from the late nineties begimning of 2000.
Mine has been checked /revised though

How critical is it to you that this vintage unit be accepted as today's sota? I like my DAC, but it's not sota anymore. Pretty close back in 2015 maybe.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I m not waiting for anyones acceptance here , i just posted about a dac that to my ears sounds a bit more natural .
A bit more detail , better rhytm and with a bit more defined bass then most.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hey, thanks for saying so and glad to hear. I try

And yeah, AVS was informally distributing EERA then; it's thru him that I got may review unit. As everybody knows here, it's extremely tough to break into that high end circle of a few manufacturers at the top end of the food chain in any category. I'd be surprised if the the top-of-line EERA DAC didn't compete w/the best of MSB, DCS, ETC out there for less money, but there's no distribution here in the US for it.

Yes Robert, but how does the Tentation do it? I'll be damned if I know
A cdp that looks like an 80s Philips reject, pick it up in one hand, flimsy drawer...you couldn't believe my disappointment on unpacking it.

And my total 180...conversion to Eera...AND to digital itself...when those first piano notes spilled out of my Zus. A spooky analog-like trick of tonal saturation and timbral accuracy, warm and fast like the real thing...this did such a mindfvck on me as a died in the wool analog man, I can't tell you.
And from that day, my parameters changed. The Eera was the measure to work my analog twds, not other admittedly nice tts I've heard over time.

And like Roger Federer (analog) versus Rafa Nadal (digital) pushing each other to greater heights over two decades of respectful competetive matches, my sources have vied w each other, my analog in particular benefitting from the Eera as having the most analog "feel" of any SS digital I know, while being class leading on what digital does best.

 

[Al M.]

Yes Robert, but how does the Tentation do it? I'll be damned if I know
A cdp that looks like an 80s Philips reject, pick it up in one hand, flimsy drawer...you couldn't believe my disappointment on unpacking it.

And my total 180...conversion to Eera...AND to digital itself...when those first piano notes spilled out of my Zus. A spooky analog-like trick of tonal saturation and timbral accuracy, warm and fast like the real thing...this did such a mindfvck on me as a died in the wool analog man, I can't tell you.
And from that day, my parameters changed. The Eera was the measure to work my analog twds, not other admittedly nice tts I've heard over time.

And like Roger Federer (analog) versus Rafa Nadal (digital) pushing each other to greater heights over two decades of respectful competetive matches, my sources have vied w each other, my analog in particular benefitting from the Eera as having the most analog "feel" of any SS digital I know, while being class leading on what digital does best.

If you like good piano sound on digital, and you ever want to go streaming where you need a stand-alone DAC, the Yggdrasil DAC will very much satisfy you. Excellent tonal saturation where warranted, and incredible variation of piano sound from one recording to another. Not just in tonality, but also in portrayal of keystroke transients, illuminating differences in playing and/or the character of the instrument itself.

Just this morning I listened again to the Benny Green Trio, "Testifyin' " -- Live at the Village Vanguard. Benny's piano sounds so tonally saturated and dynamic, and the transient portrayal -- hard, soft or in between -- is so lively and varied. And that rhythm! -- Benny's playing is a showcase in timing, and the Yggdrasil DAC, unlike a lot of other digital, just nails it.

What a treat!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Al, sure 100% we would love each other's digital
I have a shortlist for streaming/dac, and Yggy w USB module is on it...stupidly great value at $2.5k
I do love the feedback I'm seeing on $1k MDHT Orchid, $3k Holo Springs
And UK-made Chord Qutest looks great (as does the slot-together Chord 2go streamer/Hugo dac...eliminates need for USB or pwer cord as both units are batt pwrd).

 

[Al M.]

Here's a tale you'll like. After I received my Lampi GG2, I was torn using it in the music room for my TV audio output that I send to the big rig, simply because I didn't want to waste any Lampi tube life for lowly TV programs. So, with a 30 day return option, I bought the cheapest Schitt DAC made to evaluate. Lo and behold, I was stunned at how good it is and even better, it's about the size of a bar of soap. Perfect for TV optical out over 25' fiber to the DAC, which then feeds my Soulution 725 preamp. Thus, no need to use the Lampi when I watch TV programs. Needless to say, I kept it. So I wouldn't be surprised that their more expensive DACS are quite impressive indeed. I'm a believer that they make some pretty good schitt!

Nice story. So your preamp/DAC price ratio even beats mine . Their schiit sells like hotcakes too. Mike Moffat, the designer, once mentioned in 2017 I believe that back then that cheapest DAC for $ 99 sold about a 1000 units a month (12,000 a year), so this one alone made more than a million bucks in revenue per year for the company. I think the total units of all products they sold that year were around 65,000.