Suggestions for NYC condo new dedicated line?

[Avidlistener]

I'm in a NYC condo (old schoolhouse built in 1890's but converted- rewired in late 1980's

I want to install a single run 20 amp dedicated line. I'm told about all I can use is 10 gauge BX cable (named for the Bronx, where it was invented) since I'm going in wall for most of the 50' run.

I'm powering a Niagara 7000 that my entire system plugs into. I would like to terminate the run with an 10 Amp IEC and plug that directly into the Niagara, (even if it means I gave to have a duplex installed and wire it to the IEC myself later.

Any thoughts as to options and configurations? I imagine there isn't any way to create my own ground to pipes, etc.

Would love it if the audio grade power breakers made for Europe were available here, but seems there aren't any.

 

[rando]

In your situation a bit of work assessing what offers a higher chance of good sound long term with current or future equipment could pay dividends.

I would begin by assessing the state of what is in place (known live, actually live!!!, just in place and hidden). It should go without saying you wish to remove any fire hazards and gain as much awareness about what you are facing as possible. Obviously you wish to eliminate open grounds etc. along with anything that will be detrimental to audio in one fell swoop. Know how big of a job you are getting yourself into and where the best place to put your equipment is before running wire.

Then worry about deciding if MuMetal flexible conduit or the plethora of other choices fulfill a purpose. 10awg BX on a 20 amp breaker in a building that old could become 8awg on a 15 amp breaker (i.e. over wire and under breaker). Not to mention cheaper and easier in the long run.

I know that isn't specifically what you asked about. But it is what you asked for help determining the best way to go about.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm told about all I can use is 10 gauge BX cable (named for the Bronx, where it was invented)

Invented in the Bronx, perhaps, but not named for it:

"There were originally two initial versions of armored cable. One was called “AX” and the other “BX,” with the “X” standing for “experimental.” The “BX” version became the one that eventually was produced, and hence the name “BX” became the common name. BX became the registered trade name of AC Cable distributed by General Electric who had acquired Sprague Electric."

I'm powering a Niagara 7000 that my entire system plugs into. I would like to terminate the run with an 10 Amp IEC and plug that directly into the Niagara, (even if it means I gave to have a duplex installed and wire it to the IEC myself later.

Not sure what you mean by IEC. It is a type of connection (male or female). However, I had a couple of single run 20 amp dedicated lines added to my apartment as part of some renovations and, of course, it was all done in-wall with BX and grounded at the breaker box. They were each terminated in AQ NRG Edison outlets for connection to my system. One of them has a Niagara 5000 connected to it.

Do you really have any other options in a condo/coop? When I rewired my house, I used JPS Power AC In-Wall cable, still 10ga but not metal-clad.

 

[Avidlistener]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Kal I wanted to have the dedicated line terminate with a female 20 AMP IEC to plug directly into the Niagara with no edison outlet and the added connections, etc. I actually saw a diagram of a system where Joe Pitman did the same - I'll try and reach out to ask about that. http://www.kosmic.us/Power System Upgrades - Feb 7 2021 .pdf

There is a product I've read about that is an oversized neutral cable that is metal clad, and is supposed to lower harmonics on the lines for major computer servers. Unfortunatley It isn't sold in less than an entire spool and also has a thick diameter which might be hard to turn corners. Anyone have any experience with this product?

AFC Cable Systems, Inc. was founded in New Bedford, Mass in 1926 .

AFC Cable Systems, Inc., a part of Atkore International, is a leading designer, manufacturer and supplier of electrical distribution products.

www.afcweb.com

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I am not that manic.

 

[Solypsa]

reach out to wbf member @Kingrex he is the one behind Pitmans electrical work and Fremer more recently....

 

[K3RMIT]

Some advice
run 10/3 mc cable it has its own ground wire
use the third wire red in this case and tape it green to allow for a larger ground wire. Take note the ground is a wire not a conductor as it’s purpose is only in short or hot leg to ground potential to harm you.
A 20 amp hospital grade isolation type can except a. 10 gauge solid wire.my advice is to crimp a 11 gauge stranded onto the 10 gauge white and black
this allows for a better way to use the screws on the outlet
lastly take note I proposed a isolated outlet. tail or crimp a 10 gauge onto the green ground screw
do not use solid 10 gauge solid or stranded onto the green screw bettwr to use a spade crimp onto it.
by doing as I suggested the ground path goes onky back to panel in your apartment. this assumes you have a panel
use a 30 amp single pole breaker that first your panel. The 30 amp breaker has bigger contacts and tighter on panel blades
no worries on the metal or alum casing touching anyting as it does use this casing for any electrical path.

 

[Avidlistener]

Thanks Kermit and Solypsa for the insights.

 

[K3RMIT]

If you need further advise pm
me
ill help all Can and not push you to do all say.

 

[Kingrex]

Some advice
run 10/3 mc cable it has its own ground wire
use the third wire red in this case and tape it green to allow for a larger ground wire. Take note the ground is a wire not a conductor as it’s purpose is only in short or hot leg to ground potential to harm you.
A 20 amp hospital grade isolation type can except a. 10 gauge solid wire.my advice is to crimp a 11 gauge stranded onto the 10 gauge white and black
this allows for a better way to use the screws on the outlet
lastly take note I proposed a isolated outlet. tail or crimp a 10 gauge onto the green ground screw
do not use solid 10 gauge solid or stranded onto the green screw bettwr to use a spade crimp onto it.
by doing as I suggested the ground path goes onky back to panel in your apartment. this assumes you have a panel
use a 30 amp single pole breaker that first your panel. The 30 amp breaker has bigger contacts and tighter on panel blades
no worries on the metal or alum casing touching anyting as it does use this casing for any electrical path.

I would not do anything stated here. And do not use a 30 amp breaker. If there were a fire, you may find you have no insurance coverage as you violated NEC.

 

[Kingrex]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. Kal I wanted to have the dedicated line terminate with a female 20 AMP IEC to plug directly into the Niagara with no edison outlet and the added connections, etc. I actually saw a diagram of a system where Joe Pitman did the same - I'll try and reach out to ask about that. http://www.kosmic.us/Power System Upgrades - Feb 7 2021 .pdf

There is a product I've read about that is an oversized neutral cable that is metal clad, and is supposed to lower harmonics on the lines for major computer servers. Unfortunatley It isn't sold in less than an entire spool and also has a thick diameter which might be hard to turn corners. Anyone have any experience with this product?

AFC Cable Systems, Inc. was founded in New Bedford, Mass in 1926 .

AFC Cable Systems, Inc., a part of Atkore International, is a leading designer, manufacturer and supplier of electrical distribution products.

www.afcweb.com

Metal cable opens a can of worms. I don't advise using it. Not unless your 100% committed.

A super neutral or 200% neutral is only needed in server rooms and lighting circuits in large commercial settings. Fluorescent lights and computers have very high harmonlcs that couple to the neutral and can cause overheating of the conductor. To counter it they produce wire with a oversize neutral.

Joe's house is not NEC. But he makes his own cable and wires a lot of his own panelwork. Direct connection bypassing the receptacle and cord end is far superior to any outlet/cord I have seen. Your stuck using a receptacle. Some people are using the QSA and really like them.

Edit looking at your title, you have to use metal encased cable in NYC.

 

[K3RMIT]

I would not do anything stated here. And do not use a 30 amp breaker. If there were a fire, you may find you have no insurance coverage as you violated NEC.

Lol your kidding right the mc cable is rated at above 30 amps the outlet can be fused at 30 amps
I can’t help people here it’s just worth the aggravation from those who know lol.

 

[K3RMIT]

Metal cable opens a can of worms. I don't advise using it. Not unless your 100% committed.

A super neutral or 200% neutral is only needed in server rooms and lighting circuits in large commercial settings. Fluorescent lights and computers have very high harmonlcs that couple to the neutral and can cause overheating of the conductor. To counter it they produce wire with a oversize neutral.

Joe's house is not NEC. But he makes his own cable and wires a lot of his own panelwork. Direct connection bypassing the receptacle and cord end is far superior to any outlet/cord I have seen. Your stuck using a receptacle. Some people are using the QSA and really like them.

Edit looking at your title, you have to use metal encased cable in NYC.

You can’t use any non metal or alum cable in a condo if it’s above 3 stories above ground. if your concerned in code as it seems your trying to you can’t terminate bx or mc or romex by code to inline body connectors. the stuff that gets said is so above reality is amazing to me. so a man a man who knows lol makes his own cables and it’s a big assumption it’s not ul or sa listed is ok ?? man this is comical. By the way many people most of the so called exotic audio power cords are not listed on any needed manufacture approved labs but hey they know lol.
at this rate just make it all non listed it’s audio

 

[Kingrex]

Lol your kidding right the mc cable is rated at above 30 amps the outlet can be fused at 30 amps
I can’t help people here it’s just worth the aggravation from those who know lol.

That's why I am an electrical consultant for audiophiles. I know the code. Spend some more time digging around the NEC and you will see why I am correct.

Europe and asia may be different , but I bet the reasons its not code compliant will apply there too.

As your digging around, remember, you have to look at all articles. They all apply. There are many other sections outside article 310.

 

[Kingrex]

You can’t use any non metal or alum cable in a condo if it’s above 3 stories above ground. if your concerned in code as it seems your trying to you can’t terminate bx or mc or romex by code to inline body connectors. the stuff that gets said is so above reality is amazing to me. so a man a man who knows lol makes his own cables and it’s a big assumption it’s not ul or sa listed is ok ?? man this is comical. By the way many people most of the so called exotic audio power cords are not listed on any needed manufacture approved labs but hey they know lol.
at this rate just make it all non listed it’s audio

You are correct. My ching cheng power cable is the only power cable I own that has a UL stamp. All the others are technically "un-listed".

 

[K3RMIT]

Rex your a good man and truly help who you can
In no way did I mean to be abrupt. sometimes there is so much haze over the truth it gets to me
My reason for mc cable was it has its own ground wire and if added to the red conductor gives him a very large ground path. regarding a directly connecting to IEC body connectors less is more no doubt.

 

[Kingrex]

See 210.21(B)(1) and 210.21(B)(3) and 210.22 Permissible Loads as well as table 210.21(B)(3).
There is a maximum circuit ampacity of 20 amps for a duplex outlet. You can make the wire as large as you want. Of course limited to what the clamp on the duplex can handle. A whole other can of worms. but you can not exceed a 20 amp circuit breaker as no duplex is rated higher than 20 amps. A 20 amp duplex would fail if a 30 amp breaker was feeding it and a couple space heaters that absorbed 25 or so amps of current were plugged into it. They limit the ampacity of the serving circuit breaker to trip before the receptacle fails.

I have started asking manufacturer of audio equipment if they can install a 30 amp twist lock outlets on their equipment. They can still internal fuse to 20 amp. This would allow the use of a much more robust cord and receptacle as well as allowing the use of non AFCI circuit breakers to feed the equipment. AFCI are required by code on all 15 and 20 amp circuit breakers now. And they don't sound good. They cast a veil and haze over the music. It would not be all that hard for cord makers to catch up. And a twist lock is far superior to a duplex and they are rated up to 50 amps. The connection is more robust and the cord end is locked in place so it stays firmly intact and locked in place. Again, UL and NEC rear their heads and have a lot of rules surrounding how equipment is rated. The regulating agencies do not make it easy on anyone. And they really write the laws to the lowest common denominator. As in, you have to build to the bottom and not above.



Rex

 

[BlueFox]

Be sure to get more than one dedicated line. At a minimum, get one line for the preamp and other low current gear, and one line for each amp.

 

[Solypsa]

I have started asking manufacturer of audio equipment if they can install a 30 amp twist lock outlets on their equipment. They can still internal fuse to 20 amp.

Now thats a great idea!

IEC inlets seem like a very-low level solution...even a powercon seems to me to be a better choice.

 

[Kingrex]

PowerCon is not NEC compliant as a wall outlet. It has to be in a device like a power strip.