Let's talk about jazz records. Most of the classic titles from the 1950s were originally cut from an Ampex tape machine, which fed into Westrex tube electronics and a Westrex cutter head mounted on a Scully lathe. Now, compare that to ERC, which uses a Lyrec tape machine, Ortofon electronics, cutter head and lathe. People often wonder how similar these two systems are. Well, let me tell you—the similarity pretty much stops at the word 'tubes,' or 'valves' if we're talking European equipment. And even then, the tubes are quite different between the US and Europe.
In reality, these two cutting systems are not similar at all. Frankly, I don’t care whether it’s cut using tubes or not. What matters to me is whether it’s cut from the master tape. Since master tapes can’t travel from the USA to the UK, ERC is cutting from a copy or even a copy of a copy. On the other hand US based reissue labels mostly (not always) cuts from master tapes.
So, why do audiophiles flock to buy ERC jazz and rock titles? It's largely due to good advertising by and glowing magazine reviews. Now, UK-based classical ERC releases are a different story because there’s a better chance they have access to the original master tapes.
Which titles of theirs have you heard and either liked or not?
FWIW, their website says “ Officially Sanctioned Heritage pressings mastered from the original analogue master tapes.” I guess one could interpret that to mean that they could use copies, but I read it to mean that they use the actual masters. I have no way of verifying that one way or another.
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a Bill Evans album which I don't remember now but probably it was A Portrait In Jazz and John Coltrane My Favorite Things. I didn't like them. Both were overly smooth, rolled off while even the OJC counterparts from 80's were more detailed, transparent and dynamic. Actually there is a third one we compared against other reissues but I cannot remember the title.
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I heard all pre pandemic when I visited, that time they were coming out with the Michele Auclair album and I got to compare the lacquer to the tape it was close..
But in their releases I liked only two I mentioned in one of my earlier posts on the thread.
My experience has been hit or miss with the titles I have bought. Some, including Monk’s Music and CSN self-titled are the best I have ever heard (and I own several pressings of both). Others were not as good as compared to other pressings.
However, I think this is true of all the reissue companies and it is likely due to the mastering decisions (and maybe the equipment used). I will say that the vast majority of the Music Matters Jazz reissues are my favorites but there are some that aren’t.
I would like to see evidence that they don’t use original master reels since their website says they do.
Logically we should like to see evidence that they use master tapes, not the other way around.
Their website says they do. If you want to say they are dishonest or using deceptive language, fine, but you made a statement without any support.
If someone claims they’re cutting from the master tape, the burden of proof is on them—plain and simple. So, ERC needs to prove they’re actually using the master tape. It’s no secret that master tapes rarely even travel between states these days, let alone cross the Atlantic. This isn’t just speculation; it’s a well-documented fact.
Take, for instance, the recent release of The Doors’ self-titled album by ERC, which turned out to be cut from a 'LEDO'—a leadered, EQ’d duplicate. If the master tape is lost, and the best available source is a later-generation tape, then claiming it’s 'cut from the master tape' is misleading at best. It surfaced when someone noticed LEDO on the picture of the reel used.
To be clear, my concerns here are specifically about jazz and rock titles from major artists. Classical releases are a different story.
All I’m saying is that it’s highly unlikely ERC is cutting from the actual master tapes, and I’m sharing my perspective. You’re free to believe what you want, as well as I do.
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I am not sure the Doors release proves that ERC doesn't use master tapes because the tape they used was the same tape that was used to cut the original mono Elektra release. Fremer covers the entire situation on his website which I assume you read. In fact, they discuss this on their website so I don't think they are trying to hide anything. https://www.theelectricrecordingco.com/news/2023-01-17-erc081-the-doors-the-doors-true-mono
In many cases they post the picture of the tapes they used.
If they are not being truthful about what tape they are using I would think someone at this point would have come forward and said so. Does that prove that they are using the master tapes? No, but my reaction was to your original comment that tapes never travel across the Atlantic and I don't see any evidence of that. The LEDO tape used for the Doors is the lowest generation version Elektra has, which says something.
I think we have beat this topic to death.
Actually, the master tapes don't travel beyond the front door of the tape archive. The edited work parts, that is, or the direct copies of the work parts if the session tapes no longer exist. I talked to Pierre Buldoc a coupe of years ago regarding reissuing records from the EMI catalogue. He has been reissuing some of those titles in Europe, but the label would only provide him with digital files prepared at Abbey Road even if he is willing to pay for production master tapes. He was able to get 1/2" 15ips copies of the archive tapes for several titles, also prepared by Abbey Road studios, for a limited series of tape releases, but had to pay through the nose for those.
I am not sure why people are making broad statements about things for which they don't really know. And I am not saying I know either.
When Music Matters Jazz did all their reissue work they claimed they were working off the original masters. I can't confirm that since I wasn't in the room but I would be surprised that they would claim that if it wasn't true. https://www.musicmattersjazz.com/the-sound-s/45.htm
The same goes for Analogue Productions which is pretty transparent with how they do their work.
When the Japanese labels like King reissued Blue Note titles they were not sent the masters but a safety master. That seems to be well documented.
When Music Matters Jazz did all their reissue work they claimed they were working off the original masters. I can't confirm that since I wasn't in the room but I would be surprised that they would claim that if it wasn't true. https://www.musicmattersjazz.com/the-sound-s/45.htm
The same goes for Analogue Productions which is pretty transparent with how they do their work.
When the Japanese labels like King reissued Blue Note titles they were not sent the masters but a safety master. That seems to be well documented.
Sony owns 90% of EMI, and the rights to all their holdings, and as I already said they will not release any analogue master tape, just DSD copies.
When ERC was just starting I was introduced to them by one of the record dealers I frequented in London, Dave Parsons. They were focusing on classical titles from EMI. Dave who was a partner in ERC at that time took me to visit Pete Hutchinson at his studio and saw the equipment they were going to be using. Things were in pieces before their restoration. I saw one of the master tapes Pete had from EMI. The first tapes were the masters of Johanna Martzy playing the Bach Sonatas and Partitas. His partner Dave Parsons shared with me the prospective list of EMI album titles that they were looking at doing. They included several of the Leonid Kogan albums on the EMI Columbia SAX series. At that time I don't think they were thinking about doing titles in rock/pop or jazz.
Larry
Larry
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