Tape at RMAF 2011

[garylkoh]

I was quite impressed by Gary's Genesis 7.2f. At around $9k/pr these speakers are major contenders.

Thanks, rbbert. I'm rather proud of what I've done with these little floorstanders

 

[Steve williams]

Gary

I need to come back for another listen as I am thinking my opinion was clouded by that buzz I heard.

BTW, they are not only beautiful but the tweeter is remarkably unique and Gary was very informative as to why the drivers were positioned in the cabinets in the manner i which they were

I can't wait to get to Seattle and hear all the great systems up there

 

[mep]

In good sounding rooms with both vinyl and Hi-res digital, I though the digital won almost every time. I know that's not a popular opinion here.

Somebody was bound to say it, you just arrived first with your opinion. It's obvious from some of your other comments that we don't quite hear things the same which is fine. We only have to please ourselves.

 

[Steve williams]

We only have to please ourselves

Mark

now I know what those sounds were that were coming from your room

Nonetheless I agree and that's what makes the hobby fun

 

[rbbert]

Somebody was bound to say it, you just arrived first with your opinion. It's obvious from some of your other comments that we don't quite hear things the same which is fine. We only have to please ourselves.

Obviously true for different people all over this hobby. The number of rooms at RMAF that had remarkably poor sound (in my opinion) is clear testament to that, since I have to assume that someone liked the sound in those rooms.

 

[c1ferrari]

Originally Posted by rbbert
In good sounding rooms with both vinyl and Hi-res digital, I though the digital won almost every time. I know that's not a popular opinion here.

Somebody was bound to say it, you just arrived first with your opinion. It's obvious from some of your other comments that we don't quite hear things the same which is fine. We only have to please ourselves.

High-res digital, i.e. native DSD, can --dependant on the example-- effectively compete with vinyl, imo; however, DSD has not superseded analog tape masters/dupes.

 

[rbbert]

Originally Posted by rbbert
In good sounding rooms with both vinyl and Hi-res digital, I though the digital won almost every time. I know that's not a popular opinion here.



High-res digital, i.e. native DSD, can --dependant on the example-- effectively compete with vinyl, imo; however, DSD has not superseded analog tape masters/dupes.

I specifically did not include reel tape in my comparison. Tape sources that sounded outstanding at RMAF were in Bruce Brown's rooms and the Doshi Audio room. Although the von Schweikert room apparently impressed the Positive Feedback folks, I didn't feel so positively about that one, although it may not have been the source. Same for the VTL/Tape Project room. IMHO, analog tape done well has none of the problems of vinyl (except a little hiss, which doesn't seem particularly important to me.)

 

[J-ROB]

After two Brown/King demos on our WE 757A speakers, I'm seriously considering getting back into tape. My Korean bud, Mr. Oh, was amazed and I expect he will have a tape machine rolling within the month.

Like I need more vices...

We had a decent vinyl rig with a Schroeder/Artemis Labs table and a $7500 Soundsmith Hyperion cart with a cactus cantilever. I'd say carefully selected records could match Rich's "B-list" tapes but a great tape smoked the vinyl playback in terms of vividness and general je ne sais quoi.

Some moments of tape playback at RMAF and CES were peak audio experiences for me, at least among those I can still remember.

We had a CD player on hand just in case but didn't even hook it up. We kept it covered with a bath towel in a corner of the room. Bad digital is simply one more symptom of the general decline of civilization and it is strongly in evidence at audio shows.

The renaissance of tape is very encouraging. Keep up the good work!

 

[RogerD]

The renaissance of tape is very encouraging. Keep up the good work!

 

[naturephoto1]

Well, not related to this thread, but Roger knew about this. I know this is old and recorded only at 7 1/2 IPS but I won this on Ebay a few days ago and it just arrived in today's mail:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160662568603?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649



I want to clean the heads and the rest of the "new" upgraded Ampex 440C/B R2R tape deck (cleaning fluid scheduled to arrive tomorrow) before I give it a listen. I will report in somewhere on the forum.

I would suspect a few members of the forum like Myles and Ron will be interested in my report.

Rich

 

[MylesBAstor]

Well, not related to this thread, but Roger knew about this. I know this is old and recorded only at 7 1/2 IPS but I won this on Ebay a few days ago and it just arrived in today's mail:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160662568603?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649



I want to clean the heads and the rest of the "new" upgraded Ampex 440C/B R2R tape deck (cleaning fluid scheduled to arrive tomorrow) before I give it a listen. I will report in somewhere on the forum.

I would suspect a few members of the forum like Myles and Ron will be interested in my report.

Rich

And a few other tapeheads here! Right now enjoying the tapes brought back from RMAF. Have listened to reel one of each, now reel two of each tonight!

 

[MylesBAstor]

I specifically did not include reel tape in my comparison. Tape sources that sounded outstanding at RMAF were in Bruce Brown's rooms and the Doshi Audio room. Although the von Schweikert room apparently impressed the Positive Feedback folks, I didn't feel so positively about that one, although it may not have been the source. Same for the VTL/Tape Project room. IMHO, analog tape done well has none of the problems of vinyl (except a little hiss, which doesn't seem particularly important to me.)

Not sure which PFO writers you're referring to and which VS room? I thought the Purity Audio room with the new VS44s was pretty good with those 195 wpc McAllister OTL amps from Canada. Purity described the system Would have liked to hear them with analog tape or LPs!

 

[JackD201]

Apparently Bill and Albert had Mr. Murphy all over 'em too in the VR-44 room. The McAllisters suffered some shipping damage and it took a while to sort things out. I think Bill should make his next project a pair of amps to go with his linestage. Looking at the pics of the VR-5 room, I was a little puzzled. 5s can be put up against the walls but they sound far, far better with a lot of space around them. Were the rooms at RMAF very small, as in 20 or so square meters only?

 

[MylesBAstor]

Apparently Bill and Albert had Mr. Murphy all over 'em too in the VR-44 room. The McAllisters suffered some shipping damage and it took a while to sort things out. I think Bill should make his next project a pair of amps to go with his linestage. Looking at the pics of the VR-5 room, I was a little puzzled. 5s can be put up against the walls but they sound far, far better with a lot of space around them. Were the rooms at RMAF very small, as in 20 or so square meters only?

The VR5s in the United Home Audio room really weren't sounding too great esp in the low end Know they sound better than that.

 

[c1ferrari]

...a great tape...je ne sais quoi.

Indeed...this conveys my sentiment toward tubes as well

 

[Doc B.]

Thanks for the kind words here about our tapes. Having been doing this for a while now, I'd like to ask that folks keep in perspective the actual dynamics of shows. It's not always possible to control everything in a room. Sometimes there are alliances made just for the show that create combinations of equipment can't be tested headed of time, much as we would like to. Some exhibitors like to change their plans at the last minute and just see how it goes, while some (like me) have evolved to prefer control freak-like power over every piece of gear - which makes those types of manufacturer alliances few and far between. But even with that much preparation there are still so many variables that you never really know how it will all shake out when the first listener walks into the room.

As an example I had four different headphone amps running in the Can Jam room. We staged the exact system, right down to the cables and power strips, same size table, exact tubes, everything, before we shipped. When we got the RMAF it all went together nicely and we got a wonderful amount of positive commentary, but to my dismay the noise floor in the Can Jam room was high enough that things I really wanted folks to hear that distinguish each amp, that we could hear clearly at my shop, were often tough to discern.

So take the opinions that are popping up all over right now in the proper perspective. Of course some stuff sounded bad, it was a show and there are always setups that just ain't workin' it. But it might sound fine somewhere else besides a hotel, and it doesn't necessarily mean the exhibitor doesn't care, he may just have had a bad run of show luck at this one.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Apparently Bill and Albert had Mr. Murphy all over 'em too in the VR-44 room. The McAllisters suffered some shipping damage and it took a while to sort things out. I think Bill should make his next project a pair of amps to go with his linestage. Looking at the pics of the VR-5 room, I was a little puzzled. 5s can be put up against the walls but they sound far, far better with a lot of space around them. Were the rooms at RMAF very small, as in 20 or so square meters only?

Hmmm....by the time I got to the room, the McA's were operating And supposedly they can drive anything including my MLs.

I don't know why they placed the VR5s like they did either.

 

[flez007]

Thanks for the kind words here about our tapes. Having been doing this for a while now, I'd like to ask that folks keep in perspective the actual dynamics of shows. It's not always possible to control everything in a room. Sometimes there are alliances made just for the show that create combinations of equipment can't be tested headed of time, much as we would like to. Some exhibitors like to change their plans at the last minute and just see how it goes, while some (like me) have evolved to prefer control freak-like power over every piece of gear - which makes those types of manufacturer alliances few and far between. But even with that much preparation there are still so many variables that you never really know how it will all shake out when the first listener walks into the room.

As an example I had four different headphone amps running in the Can Jam room. We staged the exact system, right down to the cables and power strips, same size table, exact tubes, everything, before we shipped. When we got the RMAF it all went together nicely and we got a wonderful amount of positive commentary, but to my dismay the noise floor in the Can Jam room was high enough that things I really wanted folks to hear that distinguish each amp, that we could hear clearly at my shop, were often tough to discern.

So take the opinions that are popping up all over right now in the proper perspective. Of course some stuff sounded bad, it was a show and there are always setups that just ain't workin' it. But it might sound fine somewhere else besides a hotel, and it doesn't necessarily mean the exhibitor doesn't care, he may just have had a bad run of show luck at this one.

Well, you know what I think! .. I sat and enjoyed the preview of series 3, at least for a shortwhile, I stayed with the cans I know better (Senhs) and it has been the best sound I have heard out from them.... so good that I am restoring a Nagra T as-we-speak. congrats Doc B.

 

[jtinn]

I am shocked that none of you mentioned our room. We had an absolutely pristine Ampex ATR-102 playing some of the best masters I have heard. Maybe I was the only one in there

Those of you who do not know Mike Spitz, should meet him. He is an absolutely wonderful guy who is a wealth of information.

 

[Bruce B]

I am shocked that none of you mentioned our room. We had an absolutely pristine Ampex ATR-102 playing some of the best masters I have heard. Maybe I was the only one in there
Those of you who do not know Mike Spitz, should meet him. He is an absolutely wonderful guy who is a wealth of information.

You need to stop being so narcissistic and read post #11....

Hi Gary:There was another tape machine at the show. It was an ATR-102 in Jonathan's room 1117, I believe. I didn't get to hear the tapes in that room. They were crawling all over the Joel's new tonearm...and left no time to play the tapes when I visited the room.