Dear Tang,
Can you share these pictures of the AF Zero internals? And I would not mind seeing similar pictures of the AF2000 ...
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TechDAS Air Force Zero (real final photo)
- Thread starter TLi
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Dear Tang,
Can you share these pictures of the AF Zero internals? And I would not mind seeing similar pictures of the AF2000 ...
Dear Tang,
Can you share these pictures of the AF Zero internals? And I would not mind seeing similar pictures of the AF2000 ...[/QUOTE]
Tang has a bad back. Are you asking him to lift of the 200lb platter so we can have a look under the hood ?
I won't say a lot are a**h***s, not until you provide constructive feedback on their personal audio choices anyway
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No, I did not ask him of anything so cruel. Just informed I would appreciate to see the internals of the AS2000, as well as those of the AF0, the same way I have seen those of the SME30 or my Studer A80.
Probably some people prefer the $500k audio gossip, I enjoy more the technical side of expensive high-end.
Yes, but as fair as I remember only the external parts, not the internal details.
I think it’s pretty basic. Steel sub chassi with bottom part of air bearing machined into, including one air hole. Platter with top part of air bearingNo, I did not ask him of anything so cruel. Just informed I would appreciate to see the internals of the AS2000, as well as those of the AF0, the same way I have seen those of the SME30 or my Studer A80.
Probably some people prefer the $500k audio gossip, I enjoy more the technical side of expensive high-end.
Yes, but as fair as I remember only the external parts, not the internal details.
machined into. The End !
Well, IMHO the interesting part for connoisseurs is in the fine details and implementation ...
Yes the trick is the shape of the bearing itself and the materials !Well, IMHO the interesting part for connoisseurs is in the fine details and implementation ...
It’s self centering.
No center tap like on your Forsell or my Maplenoll !
But few separate part with little tolerance in machining.
Great design !
Well, IMHO the interesting part for connoisseurs is in the fine details and implementation ...
generally; the top of the audio performance food chain covers a somewhat wide price range and different approaches; past a certain point on the price/value curve performance differences are essentially indistinguishable, other than issues of taste. more dollars becomes simply.......more dollars. and where the market place assigns value is not always logical as it get's into the current narratives and attentions.
what is interesting to me is the assembly of the various choices and system execution and details. 'whole system' focus as opposed to better this or that piece. it gets me where i want to go.
OTOH forums have an easier time isolating pieces of gear to talk about. very understandable and expected.
how the top priced gear works is less significant, since much of the tech is not understandable (by me) anyway. it's natural that we don't all focus on the same issues.
YMMV, just my 2 cents, and all that stuff. as a guy living in that higher cost gear zone mostly it's just how things look to me.
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The pics were on "for your eyes only basis." May be in the future Techdas want to disclose to public. They can reveal them themself. The AS2000 is just like what Lagonda and Folsom commented below.
I did not take pictures of different pieces of AS2000 when I installed. There were not many pieces and they were pretty much solid, not like a many parts put together = one piece.
I do have a terrible back. Three days after I installed the Lamm into my system, I could not walk and had to use a wheel chair for the sixth time. But this is not why I did not take pictures. I am sure I have some pictures in my mobile phone somewhere but they are just general pictures of the condition of pelican cases David delivered to me.
Kind regards,
Tang
I have written similar words many times, but speakers, turntables and analog tape decks are part of the high-end equipment I consider very understandable and well documented. Surely some parts of speakers, such a as crossover component quality are still black magic ...
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Thanks. Lagonda and Folsom comments did not add anything about the turntable details or implementation, it is why I was looking for more information.
Fairway people. Fairway! You included Ron. It is a AFZero thread and you guys have been hitting balls into deep rough and fairway adjacent. Try a least to be in the first tier rough.
Dont respond back. Just think Fairway.
Kind regards,
Tang
That was my thoughtful humor my dear Lagonda.Hope you are feeling better, and that your good humor is unaffected
Tang
Hi Micro
Yes there are a lot of parts in AF tables. The bulk go into the vibration management aspects of it and the others are for ergonomics.Particularly with the 1s and now the zero, you'll find work inside that anybody who loves seeing fine machine work will likely never see. The attention to detail isn't skin deep, it goes to the bone.
Some aspects of the vibration system design philosophies and engineering choices require these pieces. The vacuum system for example does double duty. On the surface it looks like all it does is help flatten the record. In fact the use of vacuum chambers inside the platter to disrupt and damp vibration travel is a key element of why the tables are so quiet. This is easily demonstrated by comparing the groove noise levels between program material. The Zero has multiple platter sections with different materials for CLD and also as a way to add more of these vacuum chambers. The upper platter is made of Tungsten Carbide and alone is extremely expensive to make because it is sintered and not cast or forged. It is chosen because the molecular structure can be manipulated in the sintering process. The bottom most section is much larger in diameter to both increase the area for air to support the massive platter and also adds a flywheel effect for speed stability.
The conical vertical component does not have contact as has been assumed (even by mysel)f when set up correctly. There is an airgap too.It is in fact where air is supplied and this flows down under the platter to lift it. When there is contact, which happens when the belt is too tight, the friction inhibits the motor from reaching 45 rpm during the microprocessor aided calibration process. This in turn required a belt tensioner system like that on fan belts to make tension calibration easier as the alternative would be to make fine adjustments by moving the entire (heavy) motor assembly relative to the main plinth. When setting up the tension, you look for the point where you just remove the ribbon flutter and no tighter. This ensures the best centering which sonically is also the most smooth and free flowing. Think rim drive contact pressure or idler clutch settings as an analogy with regards to friction.
Then there's the passive air suspension which is augmented with the thoughtful addition of parts (worm drive) that allow you to level the table from the top while you look at the bubble level incorporated into the control panel. As the arms are mounted directly on the top plinth instead of outboard pods, there are no pods to level (except the motor's) when changes are made or when set up on a less than ideal surface.
It takes me around 45 minutes to set up an AF1 including an arm beginning with unboxing. In extreme contrast, my best bud Phil (Jadis here on WBF) got the fabulous sounding top dog LP12 and by his account the dealers still weren't done six hours in. It's a great story and the results were worth it. Best he tells it himself though. Especially the part where a special table/jig has to be used because the unit can only be worked on from underneath. This set up time is comparable to my set up time with the AC-3 which actually takes longer because of the 3 motors and my HRX because of the multiple belts that seemed to have minds of their own. A lot of the time saved on the AF3 is in the speed calibration which no longer mandates an outboard strobe and strobe disc. No need for extra tools to access trim pots like in some CA models and no speed surfing as calibration is saved to memory and will adjust to power conditions.
During everyday use, it is as simple to operate as my Technics SL 1200 family turntables. No bending over to reach for a control box that may not have fit on the same shelf.
It is complex but the complexity is there towards not just sonics but high levels of ease of use. They recognize that time, our time, is valuable. I call that considerate engineering. I suppose some audiophiles like hustling and bustling about like Victor Frankenstein in his lab, perhaps with an Igor in tow to boot. No mad scientist behavior required here.
Yes there are a lot of parts in AF tables. The bulk go into the vibration management aspects of it and the others are for ergonomics.Particularly with the 1s and now the zero, you'll find work inside that anybody who loves seeing fine machine work will likely never see. The attention to detail isn't skin deep, it goes to the bone.
Some aspects of the vibration system design philosophies and engineering choices require these pieces. The vacuum system for example does double duty. On the surface it looks like all it does is help flatten the record. In fact the use of vacuum chambers inside the platter to disrupt and damp vibration travel is a key element of why the tables are so quiet. This is easily demonstrated by comparing the groove noise levels between program material. The Zero has multiple platter sections with different materials for CLD and also as a way to add more of these vacuum chambers. The upper platter is made of Tungsten Carbide and alone is extremely expensive to make because it is sintered and not cast or forged. It is chosen because the molecular structure can be manipulated in the sintering process. The bottom most section is much larger in diameter to both increase the area for air to support the massive platter and also adds a flywheel effect for speed stability.
The conical vertical component does not have contact as has been assumed (even by mysel)f when set up correctly. There is an airgap too.It is in fact where air is supplied and this flows down under the platter to lift it. When there is contact, which happens when the belt is too tight, the friction inhibits the motor from reaching 45 rpm during the microprocessor aided calibration process. This in turn required a belt tensioner system like that on fan belts to make tension calibration easier as the alternative would be to make fine adjustments by moving the entire (heavy) motor assembly relative to the main plinth. When setting up the tension, you look for the point where you just remove the ribbon flutter and no tighter. This ensures the best centering which sonically is also the most smooth and free flowing. Think rim drive contact pressure or idler clutch settings as an analogy with regards to friction.
Then there's the passive air suspension which is augmented with the thoughtful addition of parts (worm drive) that allow you to level the table from the top while you look at the bubble level incorporated into the control panel. As the arms are mounted directly on the top plinth instead of outboard pods, there are no pods to level (except the motor's) when changes are made or when set up on a less than ideal surface.
It takes me around 45 minutes to set up an AF1 including an arm beginning with unboxing. In extreme contrast, my best bud Phil (Jadis here on WBF) got the fabulous sounding top dog LP12 and by his account the dealers still weren't done six hours in. It's a great story and the results were worth it. Best he tells it himself though. Especially the part where a special table/jig has to be used because the unit can only be worked on from underneath. This set up time is comparable to my set up time with the AC-3 which actually takes longer because of the 3 motors and my HRX because of the multiple belts that seemed to have minds of their own. A lot of the time saved on the AF3 is in the speed calibration which no longer mandates an outboard strobe and strobe disc. No need for extra tools to access trim pots like in some CA models and no speed surfing as calibration is saved to memory and will adjust to power conditions.
During everyday use, it is as simple to operate as my Technics SL 1200 family turntables. No bending over to reach for a control box that may not have fit on the same shelf.
It is complex but the complexity is there towards not just sonics but high levels of ease of use. They recognize that time, our time, is valuable. I call that considerate engineering. I suppose some audiophiles like hustling and bustling about like Victor Frankenstein in his lab, perhaps with an Igor in tow to boot. No mad scientist behavior required here.
Sometimes it’s hard to be funny when you are on the black censor list !That was my thoughtful humor my dear Lagonda.
Tang
What’s your score now ? I got another point yesterday.
But you are probably way ahead of me
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That's because there isn't much. The fact that it's even possible to buy that much stainless steel machined like that is kind of amazing in itself. It has an air bearing (as noted by DDK) and it has a speed control box that's obviously a little more complicated. It's no more complicated than necessary, and avoids a lot of sound infringing characteristics according to DDK, that other TT's often exhibit by being too complicated.
There is nothing that has been posted here that my wife wouldn't just call us knuckledraggers and just walk off laughing at us carrying on...but then again she DOES have a fantastic sense of humor. One of the thousands of reasons I keep her around.
And to add I would never post anything that I would be worried about her reading, this included. She often reads this forum as we sit in bed in the evenings winding down and or I am always showing her our stupidity.
Life is to short to live in a twist!
Back to absurdly priced audio equipment and the knuckle draggers that pay for it!
And to add I would never post anything that I would be worried about her reading, this included. She often reads this forum as we sit in bed in the evenings winding down and or I am always showing her our stupidity.
Life is to short to live in a twist!
Back to absurdly priced audio equipment and the knuckle draggers that pay for it!
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