Testing and embracing Stacore

[spiritofmusic]

Hey, one thing we long-in-the tooth audiofools ought to know, is that nothing is settled until the fat lady sings.
And in my case, Stacore is the fattest lady of all, with the loudest voice.
So Jarek’s statement that anti vibe should be independent of floor may be more aspiration than reality for all choices. Evidently it doesn’t apply to active.

 

[microstrip]

V interesting. Could you point me to those applications please?

See http://www.techmfg.com/products/stacisix/lasertable-base for example.

The semiconductor industry is one large client of these tables and I read that some of them operate in zones regularly affected by micro seismic disturbances.

 

[Stacore]

Interesting! I was just going to say that suspended floor resonances are in some 10-15Hz region so should be an easy cake for any active platform

But they suggest that active is less efficient at higher frequencies (past some few Hz?) than passive. So they prefilter with active (at the base ?), to make passive work comfortably (out of its resonance).
V interesting, thank you Micro!

 

[flyer]

See http://www.techmfg.com/products/stacisix/lasertable-base for example.

The semiconductor industry is one large client of these tables and I read that some of them operate in zones regularly affected by micro seismic disturbances.

Mictrostrip, I don't know if you put this base forward as an alternative or only to answer Jarek's question, but anyway that's one serious base! Not very high on WAF though

 

[Stacore]

This is a no-joke lab optical table M, don't try it at home
I lived with such tables in my Barcelona times. This is where the inspiration
for Stacore came from.

Cheers,

 

[Tango]

The thing looks like a butcher table!

 

[Stacore]

Tango, it stabilizes down to nanometers! Optics operates in the 100's nm range so all the vibrations should be kept well below.

 

[spiritofmusic]

A butcher needs a pretty steady work surface, not that the newly vegetarian Jarek is too interested LOL

 

[Stacore]

Not so new, Marc. I've been vegetarian for about 9 years and have not touched meet for about 17

 

[spiritofmusic]

Slightly OT, Jarek. Although it’s fun knowing a bit about our favourite designers beyond the products they make.
I have to say, I had heard Herzan wasn’t suited to springy floors. And I can’t imagine any labs having anything other than uber inert floors. And Herzan was never designed as a product to be used in compromised domestic situations, like on my springy suspended floor. Indeed I’m sure it took a bit of a leap of faith for the first audiophile use of a Herzan.
So in my situation, with my demanding floor, I’m very pleased there is a more dedicated, fit for purpose option.

 

[Stacore]

I have to say, I had heard Herzan wasn’t suited to springy floors. And I can’t imagine any labs having anything other than uber inert floors. And Herzan was never designed as a product to be used in compromised domestic situations, like on my springy suspended floor.

This TMC's table description might point to why (if this is not just a pure marketing to sell a more expensive table with two suspensions of course).
Cheers,

 

[spiritofmusic]

Jarek, I’ll remain confident that you’ve sweated the details dissecting these uncompromising, and to be frank, totally domestically unacceptable lab platforms, to distil their essence into your finished audiophile product.

 

[microstrip]

Slightly OT, Jarek. Although it’s fun knowing a bit about our favourite designers beyond the products they make.
I have to say, I had heard Herzan wasn’t suited to springy floors. And I can’t imagine any labs having anything other than uber inert floors. And Herzan was never designed as a product to be used in compromised domestic situations, like on my springy suspended floor. Indeed I’m sure it took a bit of a leap of faith for the first audiophile use of a Herzan.
So in my situation, with my demanding floor, I’m very pleased there is a more dedicated, fit for purpose option.

IMHO you go on comparing apples with oranges - isolation platforms and active tables are very different devices with surely very different sound signatures. IMHO the only serious drawback of active platforms is price ...

 

[Tango]

IMHO you go on comparing apples with oranges

The desire result is to get less vibration. I don’t think it is comparing apples with oranges. But that’s your opinion .
In my opinion, the same as comparing superchargers with turbos when the desire result is to get more horse power.

Tang

 

[microstrip]

The desire result is to get less vibration. I don’t think it is comparing apples with oranges. But that’s your opinion .
In my opinion, the same as comparing superchargers with turbos when the desire result is to get more horse power.

Tang

IMHO the desired objective is to deal with any electro-mechanical issues that affect sound quality. The way a passive or active platform deals with them is quite different. Reducing it to just a comparison of frequency and range of operation is misleading.

Please note that I still have no preference in this subject - I have not tried any of them in my system.

 

[Stacore]

Micro, your TMC link sort of defined whats apple and whats orange here. V educative. Muito obrigado,
Jarek

 

[spiritofmusic]

Francisco, well it appears there are TWO drawbacks on active.
Price, as you say.
And poorer performance compared to passive Stacore in my room.

 

[PeterA]

The desire result is to get less vibration. I don’t think it is comparing apples with oranges. But that’s your opinion .
In my opinion, the same as comparing superchargers with turbos when the desire result is to get more horse power.

Tang

I tend to agree with this. Active and passive platforms attempt to solve the same problem of vibration management, but they approach it from different directions. It is like comparing direct drive turntable systems to belt drive systems with massive platters. The goal is accurate and consistent speed. Audiophiles compare different design approaches all the time. SS and tube amps also.

The fascinating question for me is this: Can Tango's custom Stacore rack be also considered in the same discussion with active and passive supports? After all, he and Christian are trying to solve the same problem of providing the best platform on which to place the American Sound AS2000. It is the same problem, but our two members are attempting to solve it from two radically different directions. They will surely be compared, though perhaps not directly.

Consider BD, DD or Idler drive / horns, cones, panels. Are these not all basically different approaches to solving the same problem? Sure, apples, oranges and bananas are all different types of fruit, but they can all be eaten to provide sustenance.

To point out the differences between approaches is missing the point. The point is that different approaches can be used to address the same problem. They can then be compared to determine which is the better solution in a particular set of conditions. And in Marc's case, it is what type of platform sounds best under his equipment in his room.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Concur Peter.
Now audiophiles have a few choices.
Lab grade active ie Herzan, Accurion, Kuraka
Lab grade passive ie Vibraplane, Minus K, Speirs&Robertson
Audiophile grade active ie Tana
Audiophile grade passive ie Stacore
In addition to the established SOTA racks ie Symposium, GPA, HRS, CMS etc.

 

[microstrip]

IMHO we must consider the mechanisms of dealing with vibration of both types of devices. Arguments such as "it did not work in my floor" or "both platforms attempt to solve the same problem of vibration management" are of no help for a more enlightened choice.

Passive platforms isolate components from the floor vibration blocking energy transfers from the floor to the component, dissipating this energy as heat. They rely on the inertia of the load and the damping properties of the elastic materials, such as air and rubber, being used. Active platforms, having sensors and actuators, attached to the platform and elsewhere, create a referential of inertia in the table, actively absorbing both the vibrational energy from the floor and that coming from the component being supported. Although apparently more complete, the active mode surely is more complex and has some intrinsic drawbacks, that must be weighted in the choice.