The absolute best audio system i have ever heard any where

Mobiusman

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May 24, 2010
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The absolute best audio i have heard anywhere

The Best Audio System I Have Ever Heard—Anywhere, At Any Price

Last Saturday I had my references for the ultimate sound system challenged and blown away by the most unlikely system imaginable. Before I reveal my new reference, for at least the next 5 days, let me give you a short summary of my listening acumen. I have played with high end audio for the past 50 years; have attended at least 40 CES shows, spent over $100K building a custom and dedicated audio listening space; had close to $200K of 2 channel audio gear in the room; directly auditioned John Iverson’s “Force Field” in his lab for 8+ hours; have been Harry Pearson’s in Sea Cliff 5 times and spent hours listening with him; and yes like most audiophiles have been up 100’s to 1000’s of late night hours looking for nirvana either at my house or that of my best friend, Marty W from this site. Said another way, whether you agree with my taste, I am a very seasoned listener and have a good idea when to be impressed and when the audiophile BS is flying in the wind.

So what is this system? For those who want to know the specifics, I have to apologize because I know very little, but expect to learn much more in 5 days from round two, when I will have an opportunity to talk to some of the sound engineers/magicians who made this possible.

So here’s what I know:
Venue-the new Yankee Stadium
Speakers- No idea, but two front curved arrays 30-40 long with 4 cabinets in each row (2 woofer, 1 mid-bass low mid and 1 mid and horn tweeter), 3 equally long arrays with the same configuration except only one woofer cabinet in each row at just past first and third base and behind home, AND 6 20 foot arrays set up in the upper decks in the lights serving as 2 rears and 4 sides.
Amps- who knows, but clearly very stable and probably at least 500,000 watts if not considerably more.
Cables- we probably do not want to know because most of us would throw up by their mundaneness.
Accessories-probably a whole team of the best in the business sound engineers, an incredible mixing board and what must be the most sophisticated digital signal processing available so that essentially every seat in the stadium had a phase coherent experience (I have not a clue how they did that)
Source material-Roger Waters and his 9 piece band playing Pink Floyd’s The Wall.

Extras- A Wall 120 yards long and over 40 feet tall that can be partially assembled and blown up at strategic points in the show, but basically serving as a projection screen for dozens of super high quality hi output video projectors that can and do control the pixels down to a single brick in the wall so that they can be individually projected upon when inserted and unilluminated when removed or blown up.

What I heard. Flawless audio, with no hum, perceptible distortion nor feedback. It was surround sound unlike I have ever heard anywhere, large or small. People were actually ducking when the helicopters came in. When the children sang they were everywhere as if the choir was all around us. The volume had to be in the 110db+ range and yet because of the open-air design there were no pressure issues.

Believe it or not, there were incredible images throughout the stadium, both stationary and moving. Somehow they seemed to be able to control the height of the images to match what was going on on the wall or when the plane flew across the stadium and crashed into the wall.

Put simply, it was the best audio experience I have ever experienced, plugged or unplugged or even the megabuck systems of some of the most prominent people on this site.

What was truly amazing is that I was off axis sitting first row off of the field at third base and imaging and phasing were perfect, I mean perfect like REAL. I had obstacles between me and main arrays but was otherwise exposed to all others by a clear path.

As you can see from the pictures below the playing field was anything but clear
0clip_image002.png

0clip_image004.png


I was so blown away by the total experience that I am going to see the concert again this Saturday in Philly and will be sitting dead center about 10 rows in front of the mixing board and will hopefully be able to talk with the engineers.
 
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reasons to question your conclusions;

1-high expectation bias.
2-ultra emotional connection to the music and performers.
3-herd mentality.
4-likely appropriately herbally medicated (passively at least).

at the same time i wish i had been there too.;)...and may have had the same conclusions.
 
I'd have a hard time fitting that into my living room. BTW Mobiusman, your images aren't showing up. I'd like to see them. Whenever you have a chance to correct the links, I sure would appreciate it.

Tom
 
I would assume that the equipment is posted somewhere in connection with this tour. I had a similar experience recently, involving far less substantial 'sound reinforcement' equipment at a semi-outdoor (it was in a big, open tent) Shakespeare festival, where simple music, strings, some horns, some small choral parts that had been pre-recorded, sounded absolutely lifelike over what amounted to a modest PA system. Part of the magic seemed to be the placement of a multitude of smaller self-powered monitors fairly high up, and pointing in various directions from the exposed scaffolding. Part of it too, as others pointed out, was that the system was not exciting 'room modes' and the openness and clarity was truly impressive without sounding bright or harsh. To me, it goes back to the importance of the 'room.'

PS: here's a link to an article that describes the system: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct11/articles/the-wall-live.htm
 
Tour Information:

For this run of 94 dates, Khalaf is manning three boards: a Midas XL4 to handle the stereo P.A. (more on that later), another XL4 to cover the band and the end of the second-half, and a Yamaha PM5D for surrounds and effects. “For the analog side of it, it’s because of the number of inputs,” Khalaf says. “There are two bands, really. The front XL4 does all of the main stage—which is behind the wall—and the one on the left [another XL4] does all of the surrogate band, the forestage.” Inside the effects rack are Lexicon 480s and PCM91s, TC Electronic D-Twos, an H3000, a Helicon vocal double, Aphex gates on drums, Crane Song STC8 on basses, TLA100s on vocals and dbx 900 on background vocals. Why XL4s? Khalaf replies: “Because I’m tired of pretending that digital audio sounds as good as analog. It doesn’t. This record was made when people cared deeply about sound quality. These days, that is not as important as the size of the video screen on your console. If it comes at me analog, it will stay analog.”

Those surround speakers are Clair R4s clustered in three configurations—left, right and rear—that handle the playback and sound effects, provided by playback engineer Mike McKnight. “They’re there so that there’s something happening for everybody,” says crew chief/system engineer Robert Wiebel. “We’ve had quite good luck with them; they sound good.” Adds Khalaf, “The Yamaha takes care of all the surround stuff, which comes from a hard disk operator [Mike McKnight]. We tried carrying around live pigeons to make pigeon noises but it didn’t work, so we put them on hard disk. [Laughs] It also gives me the opportunity because all of the effects are digital anyway; I just bring them back into the Yamaha and leave them all there. All of the surround effects need to be controlled all the time, mostly because the height of those surround clusters varies from building to building. I have the VCAs linked between the two XL4s so that I can more or less control that left-hand board from the main board.

“I actually have snapshots in the analog board using the VCAs and the mutes,” he continues. “But you have to turn up the guitar solos and maybe the drummer’s laying out a little bit. It’s mixing the show; things aren’t always the same every night. I always change my approach a little bit. ‘Okay, I mixed it this way last night and it was pretty good, but let’s feature this a little bit and pull it out.’ It’s a constant rethink where you are and reacting to different buildings. I’m trying to maintain the balance of the chaos that is with mixing any band. This one’s a bit less chaotic than most; actually, not that chaotic—they’re a great band.”

The forward-thrusting P.A. is a prototype Clair i5D. Explains Khalaf, who has been a senior engineer at Clair for the past 37 years: “We’re the guinea pig. I like it a lot; it’s a bit more coherent. The original i4 was one 18, four 10s and a couple of horns. There’s two philosophies to this. You can either put a lot of low end into the air, which really pisses off lighting designers, or you stack a bunch of sub-lows on the floor and beat the people in the first 10 rows half to death. Clair’s philosophy has always been to put as much of the low end in the air as you can and use the sub-lows simply as an add-on to move a bit of the air and couple more effectively with the floor. Putting all that stuff into one box gave us the opportunity to smooth out a lot of the anomalies with the original cabinets. The problem with it is that it’s big. We were a bit worried about it when we first started, but we found it’s smaller than a staging dolly, so no one really cared. I wouldn’t want to push one of those across a field in Montenegro…actually, keep me out of Montenegro.” In addition, there are eight i5s for side coverage, 12 B218 subs under the stage and eight FF2s as front-fills. All of this is powered by Crown analog amps.
 
The Best Audio System I Have Ever Heard—Anywhere, At Any Price

Last Saturday I had my references for the ultimate sound system challenged and blown away by the most unlikely system imaginable. Before I reveal my new reference, for at least the next 5 days, let me give you a short summary of my listening acumen. I have played with high end audio for the past 50 years; have attended at least 40 CES shows, spent over $100K building a custom and dedicated audio listening space; had close to $200K of 2 channel audio gear in the room; directly auditioned John Iverson’s “Force Field” in his lab for 8+ hours; have been Harry Pearson’s in Sea Cliff 5 times and spent hours listening with him; and yes like most audiophiles have been up 100’s to 1000’s of late night hours looking for nirvana either at my house or that of my best friend, Marty W from this site. Said another way, whether you agree with my taste, I am a very seasoned listener and have a good idea when to be impressed and when the audiophile BS is flying in the wind.

So what is this system? For those who want to know the specifics, I have to apologize because I know very little, but expect to learn much more in 5 days for round two, when I will have an opportunity to talk to some of the sound engineers/magicians who made this possible.

So here’s what I know:
Venue-the new Yankee Stadium
Speakers- No idea, but two front curved arrays 30-40 long with 4 cabinets in each row (2 woofer, 1 mid-bass low mid and 1 mid and horn tweeter), 3 equally long arrays with the same configuration except only one woofer cabinet in each row at just past first and third base and behind home, AND 6 20 foot arrays set up in the upper decks in the lights serving as 2 rears and 4 sides.
Amps- who knows, but clearly very stable and probably at least 500,000 watts if not considerably more.
Cables- we probably do not want to know because most of us would throw up by their mundaneness.
Accessories-probably a whole team of the best in the business sound engineers, an incredible mixing board and what must be the most sophisticated digital signal processing available so that essentially every seat in the stadium had a phase coherent experience (I have not a clue how they did that)
Source material-Roger Waters and his 9 piece band playing Pink Floyd’s The Wall.

Extras- A Wall 120 yards long and over 40 feet tall that can be partially assembled and blown up at strategic points in the show, but basically serving as a projection screen for dozens of super high quality hi output video projectors that can and do control the pixels down to a single brick in the wall so that they can be individually projected upon when inserted and unilluminated when removed or blown up.

What I heard. Flawless audio, with no hum, perceptible distortion nor feedback. It was surround sound unlike I have ever heard anywhere, large or small. People were actually ducking when the helicopters came in. When the children sang they were everywhere as if the choir was all around us. The volume had to be in the 110db+ range and yet because of the open-air design there were no pressure issues.

Believe it or not, there were incredible images throughout the stadium, both stationary and moving. Somehow they seemed to be able to control the height of the images to match what was going on on the wall or when the plane flew across the stadium and crashed into the wall.

Put simply, it was the best audio experience I have ever experienced, plugged or unplugged or even the megabuck systems of some of the most prominent people on this site.

What was truly amazing is that I was off axis sitting first row off of the field at third base and imaging and phasing were perfect, I mean perfect like REAL. I had obstacles between me and main arrays but was otherwise exposed to all others by a clear path.

As you can see from the pictures below the playing field was anything but clear
0clip_image002.png

0clip_image004.png


I was so blown away by the total experience that I am going to see the concert again this Saturday in Philly and will be sitting dead center about 10 rows in front of the mixing board and will hopefully be able to talk with the engineers.

Saw them perform The Wall at MSG a year or so ago. Simply incredible. Roger can sure put on a good show. Just loved when they built the wall!
 
Bruce,

Thank you so much for all of the technical information. What I was trying to get across in my piece is the final enjoyment is truly what it is about, not the cables or which tube or how much something costs. I was just lost in space for several hours, something that does not happen very often to me.

Any idea what they are using for amps and how much power they are throwing around.

Russ
 
Does Crown still make Analog amps? I thought they switched to Class D and Class I long ago.
 
I had to go looking for this thread to see where it was headed. Nowhere, evidently. It seems there's even less interest in this than there was in Whart's report of the excellent sound he heard from a sound reinforcement system at the Shakespeare festival. A couple of dead-serious Audiophiles experienced unqualified excellence from a completely different class/genre of audio and it doesn't even seem to stir up any curiosity. Interesting. I guess we'll just start another digital v analog debate... :)

Tim
 
I like to listen to live performances a lot!, my wife and I look to attend at least once a month to any given venue to listen almost all sorts of music - all I can say is that live performances are defintely another kind of listening experience which involves being with far more people around, visual and emotional bonding, and mostly open and large places at very loud volume and sound preassure.

I consider my listening room not as a way to replicate that experience, but to engage with artistic material thru other channel.
 
Tim, i'm not sure that's entirely fair, simply because in both cases (The Bard's system and The Wall), the thing would be pretty impossible to duplicate on a home/residential scale. Now, if I could just set my system up in a big tent out in the backyard.... :)
 
This brings up an interesting topic. The LIAR test... Listen In Another Room.

Was at a Pacific Northwest Audio Society Exco meeting and Gary was burning in the Dragons before they shipped out. Don't remember which cuts were on.... think it was Susan Tedeschi and some others. I swear... sitting in one of the office rooms, it sounded EXACTLY like an outdoor concert going on next door. Not too many speakers can pull this off.....
 
I had to go looking for this thread to see where it was headed. Nowhere, evidently. It seems there's even less interest in this than there was in Whart's report of the excellent sound he heard from a sound reinforcement system at the Shakespeare festival. A couple of dead-serious Audiophiles experienced unqualified excellence from a completely different class/genre of audio and it doesn't even seem to stir up any curiosity. Interesting. I guess we'll just start another digital v analog debate... :)

Tim

Oh it definitely made me want to see the concert......but I can't :(
 
Tim, i'm not sure that's entirely fair, simply because in both cases (The Bard's system and The Wall), the thing would be pretty impossible to duplicate on a home/residential scale. Now, if I could just set my system up in a big tent out in the backyard.... :)

It wasn't even close to fair, whart. That's why I threw in one of these: :) But I wanted to jump-start this thread. I thought I had abandoned horns decades ago, but lately, I've heard some relatively modest pro sound reinforcement stuff lately that has made me question that. The dynamics can be just stunning, and it seems that they've addressed some of the beamy harshness in the upper mids. Personal conventional wisdom shaken and all that.

Tim
 
As the guy who started this thread, I totally agree with Tim (Tim pardon me if I am misinterpreting). In my opinion, listening to great music on whatever kind of system or live is worthwhile only if it makes you happy. Owning expensive, make that absurdly expensive, gear is worthwhile only if it makes you happy. Life is worthwhile only if it makes you happy and feel fulfilled.

My whole reason for starting this thread was to try to stress the point that I had a thoroughly exciting musical experience conveyed through equipment with specs that most of us would consider Radio Shack quality, and I was in musical heaven. I was so in heaven that I am going again tonight and have spent $1000 on two tickets for two young friends as a gift in hopes that I can inspire them musically and not about audio gear.

I will be sitting dead center in the 22 row so too close for the full visual effect, but then I am going for the musical effect and should be in the sweet spot just in front of the mixing board, but far enough away to be free from the blockade caused by its protective hut.

If someone will tell me how to make pictures appear on this post and if anyone is interested, I will post some shots from tonight and some long shots from last week at Yankee Stadium.

BTW, I am not a Pink Floyd, nor Wall groupie, although I love the music. I am going again because I want to be as excited as I was last week again and because of my better seats, hopefully happier than last week which was "thrilled". While I could have spent the the $1500 that I spent on tonights tickets on half of the power cord I desire, I think I made the wiser decision from a happiness standpoint.
 
Hello again, Mobiusman. You can create a free account at a picture hosting site such as photobucket, download the pic's to that site in an album and when this is done, copy the url of the picture on the site and then hit the "insert image" icon that is on the toolbar above where you make a post. It will be the one two over towards the left of the screen from the "quote" icon. You can see this toolbar when replying to any thread. This will pop up another window with two tabs at the top. Click onto the white url tab and paste the url from the picture hosting site and hit enter. You will need to do this for every photo. Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions or run into a roadblock, I'd be happy to help you.

Tom
 
As the guy who started this thread, I totally agree with Tim (Tim pardon me if I am misinterpreting). In my opinion, listening to great music on whatever kind of system or live is worthwhile only if it makes you happy. Owning expensive, make that absurdly expensive, gear is worthwhile only if it makes you happy. Life is worthwhile only if it makes you happy and feel fulfilled.

I sure agree with all of that.

My whole reason for starting this thread was to try to stress the point that I had a thoroughly exciting musical experience conveyed through equipment with specs that most of us would consider Radio Shack quality, and I was in musical heaven.

This? not so much. I'd guess the specs of that system are damn good by audiophile standards, and that if you took a scaled-down version of the system and set it up in a big, dedicated listening room it would sound damn good by audiophile standards.

Tim
 
It wasn't even close to fair, whart. That's why I threw in one of these: :) But I wanted to jump-start this thread. I thought I had abandoned horns decades ago, but lately, I've heard some relatively modest pro sound reinforcement stuff lately that has made me question that. The dynamics can be just stunning, and it seems that they've addressed some of the beamy harshness in the upper mids. Personal conventional wisdom shaken and all that.

Tim
Horns are very tricky. I've been using them since 2006, and it demanded an unbelievable amount of work to reduce the noise level of my system, given their efficiency. They can create a very believable sense of 'aliveness' and have alot of the attributes I prized as an electrostat listener. Glare and shoutiness can be an issue- my new phono stage is working wonders to reduce that, but in other systems, it may sound too polite. My issue- which is partly room related, and partly equipment related, is mainly with the bass. Using dynamic, powered 'monkey coffins', which is the case with the Avantgardes (I'm not even sure their big bass horn is truly a horn in the classic sense), makes for a discontinuity between the lows and everthing else.
I am fascinated by the vintage horn stuff, and while I am not prepared to shell out the kind of money that is required for ancient Western Electric drivers, I'd love to hear those Japanese re-creations by GIP. I've also never heard a full on Klangsfilm system. What Jeffery Jackson, Jon Weiss, and some of those other guys are doing absolutely fascinates me. I'm not particularly adept, mechanically, but i'm certain, with some help, I could get the cabinets built. That's for the next room, though. I'm already too crowded in my existing room and would have no room for a bass horn. Perhaps I should start a separate thread re horns?
 
Tim,

You are right. The listening environment, especially open air can make a good sound reinforcement system sound great. While I know little about the products used other than the amps and the boards, I am sure that they are top notch. My Radio Shack comment was to over stress the point that audio snobbery does not equal a good experience in all cases.

russ
 

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