The end game...my conversation with Wendell Diller of Magnepan

[jadis]

Like back in the day, the Tympanis of yore were acquired by many a’philes who lived with them for many years as their ‘go to’ speakers; these new 30.7’s are the Tympanis of today.
A few more of Wendell’s interesting thoughts in my next post.

The Tympani !VAs impressed me way back in the early 90s when I heard it at a dealer's wide and deep demo room in Hong Kong. Literally the sound is forever etched in my mind, with the music playing, the band was really there, I could see the musicians, like ghosts. Eerie, spooky, what have you, it was the best soundstage recreation I have ever heard.

 

[DaveyF]

The Tympani !VAs impressed me way back in the early 90s when I heard it at a dealer's wide and deep demo room in Hong Kong. Literally the sound is forever etched in my mind, with the music playing, the band was really there, I could see the musicians, like ghosts. Eerie, spooky, what have you, it was the best soundstage recreation I have ever heard.

Phil, if you thought the old Tympani 1VA's were great, you should really hear the new 30.7's! Not only do they image like few other speakers I have heard, but they speak of a piece and can plumb the depths with ease.
One of my cohorts at my office is a professional pianist on the side. As such, I get to hear a lot of live piano. The reproduction from the new 30.7's of piano, which is traditionally a difficult instrument to get right, was so good that I was certain that it was the best reproduction of this instrument that I have ever heard!! Seriously, if ( huge IF--plus the WAF is absolutely zero, as audio guy alluded to, lol)) I had the room, they would be ordered right now.

 

[leyenda]

This thread certainly wet my appetite Can one conclude that the secret to success of 30.7 (any maggie for that matter), is simply the size of the panel?

 

[gian60]

This was my system in 1988 with Tympani IVA
I remember a very good sound,
System was Goldmund Studio,SP 10 and SP 11 and D250 for mid high and N20 for bass with LNC2 crossover
Amazing for that years,but i think also now.

 

[jadis]

Phil, if you thought the old Tympani 1VA's were great, you should really hear the new 30.7's! Not only do they image like few other speakers I have heard, but they speak of a piece and can plumb the depths with ease.
One of my cohorts at my office is a professional pianist on the side. As such, I get to hear a lot of live piano. The reproduction from the new 30.7's of piano, which is traditionally a difficult instrument to get right, was so good that I was certain that it was the best reproduction of this instrument that I have ever heard!! Seriously, if ( huge IF--plus the WAF is absolutely zero, as audio guy alluded to, lol)) I had the room, they would be ordered right now.

Davey, I am already trying to imagine how they will sound and I have no doubt that if I hear them someday, I will have to consult a structural engineer re tearing down some walls in my listening room.

As for the WAF, no problem here. But, I heard before from a HK friend that those panel types of speakers - Magnepan, Acoustat and the like, are pretty low in the CAF (Chinese Acceptance Factor) because they resemble tombstones. Things that pertain to death are taboo in the Chinese culture.

 

[jadis]

This thread certainly wet my appetite Can one conclude that the secret to success of 30.7 (any maggie for that matter), is simply the size of the panel?

I can't say it's just the size though it's an important factor. To me, to make them sing, they need a big room, preferably wide and long, and pulling them out of the front wall is necessary to make them 'breathe'. Some people find them 'bright' so good matching of cables and gears to get a good yin/yang balance is advisable. As to the magic that the 'innards' provide, I guess only the designers know the secret.

 

[jadis]

This was my system in 1988 with Tympani IVA
I remember a very good sound,
System was Goldmund Studio,SP 10 and SP 11 and D250 for mid high and N20 for bass with LNC2 crossover
Amazing for that years,but i think also now.

View attachment 41768

Very nice, Gian. Feeling nostalgic.

 

[gian60]

I am more nostalgic from my system in 1982 with MG2,that i tried for mid using the bass of IMF

 

[morricab]

Last night I attended an excellent meeting at one of our local high end shops to listen to the new Magnepan 30.7 speakers. While at the event, I had the good fortune to have a lengthy discussion with the exhibitor, one who is probably familiar to many of you. Mr.Wendell Diller is on a quest!! Wendell is currently traveling around the USA with a van, his wife and the Maggie 30.7's in specially prepared wooden crates, to visit as many of his dealers as possible. Furthermore, to allow as many listeners as possible to hear what the company has brought forth with the new 30.7's.
Let me just say at this point, that IMO, and having been in this hobby for more than 35 years, that the new 30.7 speakers are something that no--NO audiophile who enjoys good sound should miss out on!
These large speakers are so very compelling on so many fronts that I would say that anyone seeking new speakers up to a price range of $100K should not miss hearing them. I used to own Maggies and Acoustat's in the day, I have long since gone away from this kind of speaker. Primarily due to the fact that they have issues that have been untenable for me. The biggie, and Wendell admits this, is that the large Maggies need a very large room to work. The new 30.7's are no exception ( unfortunately, as if they would work on my very small room, they would be opening my wallet!).
Gone are the days of dynamic constriction, lack of bottom end reach and resolution, top end glare, poor cohesion between panels and drivers, and the nasty vertical blind effect. Instead, we now have a speaker that can reach into the 20Hz's with punch and power, can scale the heights with purity, images well in the L-R plane and depth ( although a very slight diffusion of the side of instruments is still noticeable) and is able to display the full height of the performers on stage. Extremely impressive to me!
I am going to post some photos of the event and further discuss my conversation with Wendell in my next post. Suffice it to say that Wendell has some very interesting thoughts on HEA and why he does what he does.

Which Acoustats did you have back in the day? BTW. Acoustats work quite well in smallish rooms (not sure how small your room is but I had great sound in 20 sq. meters and a friend has great sound from a pair in less than that even...its that whole figure 8 dispersion, no first reflection, no ceiling or floor bounce thing that you get from a tall line source). Maybe not the early ones where the panels were all side-by-side (Acoustat X and Acoustat 4) but the tall ones (1+1, 2+2, Spectra 2200, 4400 etc.) work great. Also, my Spectra 4400s were flat to 20Hz in-room and never sounded constricted and sang at low volume (something stats usually have over ribbons). Resolution is still one of the best I have heard. The one thing that Magnepan should have done (not sure if they did in this new model) is to use properly powerful magnets (of the Nd sort) to give real sensitivity to the panel. The Alsyvox from Spain does this and it has a dramatically positive impact on ribbon sound (not to mention becoming truly tube friendly).

 

[morricab]

I didn't discuss with Wendell his preferred amp. He simply told me that he lets his dealers pick the upstream gear.
He stated that the speakers are 86db efficient. Nonetheless, I think they really do need an amp with some serious current capability upstream ( like almost all Maggie's).

So, not any better than mid-90s Apogees in terms of sensitivity...meh...

 

[DaveyF]

Which Acoustats did you have back in the day? BTW. Acoustats work quite well in smallish rooms (not sure how small your room is but I had great sound in 20 sq. meters and a friend has great sound from a pair in less than that even...its that whole figure 8 dispersion, no first reflection, no ceiling or floor bounce thing that you get from a tall line source). Maybe not the early ones where the panels were all side-by-side (Acoustat X and Acoustat 4) but the tall ones (1+1, 2+2, Spectra 2200, 4400 etc.) work great. Also, my Spectra 4400s were flat to 20Hz in-room and never sounded constricted and sang at low volume (something stats usually have over ribbons). Resolution is still one of the best I have heard. The one thing that Magnepan should have done (not sure if they did in this new model) is to use properly powerful magnets (of the Nd sort) to give real sensitivity to the panel. The Alsyvox from Spain does this and it has a dramatically positive impact on ribbon sound (not to mention becoming truly tube friendly).

Back in the day, I had a pair of Acoustat 3's. I modded the transformers to the most current 'c' mod. My room in those days was a lot larger, about 15x20. Never was happy with the Acoustat's, they would consistently sound promising, but I always felt something was missing. That something was pretty evident when I replaced them with a pair of Paul Hales' System Two Signatures.
Oddly, I had replaced a pair of Maggie 1 imp's with the Acoustat's...and IMO went backwards with the move; although I wouldn't admit to that at the time.
As to the sensitivity of the new 30.7's...yeah, I don't think the typical flea output SET amp is much of a candidate!

 

[morricab]

Back in the day, I had a pair of Acoustat 3's. I modded the transformers to the most current 'c' mod. My room in those days was a lot larger, about 15x20. Never was happy with the Acoustat's, they would consistently sound promising, but I always felt something was missing. That something was pretty evident when I replaced them with a pair of Paul Hales' System Two Signatures.
Oddly, I had replaced a pair of Maggie 1 imp's with the Acoustat's...and IMO went backwards with the move; although I wouldn't admit to that at the time.
As to the sensitivity of the new 30.7's...yeah, I don't think the typical flea output SET amp is much of a candidate!

Driving planars and electrostats are very different so just changing speakers without amps is likely not to drive one or the other equally well. If you drove the Acoustats with a big SS amp I would not be surprised if you felt something was missing...like the music!

 

[DaveyF]

Driving planars and electrostats are very different so just changing speakers without amps is likely not to drive one or the other equally well. If you drove the Acoustats with a big SS amp I would not be surprised if you felt something was missing...like the music!

What would make you think I drove the Stats with ss amplification??? In those days, I was using a medium powered Melos tube amp with KT88's. I used a ss amp for the Maggie's.

 

[morricab]

What would make you think I drove the Stats with ss amplification??? In those days, I was using a medium powered Melos tube amp with KT88's. I used a ss amp for the Maggie's.

Most people did back in the day, thus the assumption. Btw. Not all tube amps were stable if they used a lot of negative feedback. I built some OTLs that actually oscillated on my Spectra 2200s!

 

[DaveyF]

Most people did back in the day, thus the assumption. Btw. Not all tube amps were stable if they used a lot of negative feedback. I built some OTLs that actually oscillated on my Spectra 2200s!

No, the problem with stats and I felt Maggie's also ( up till hearing the new 30.7's) was that they simply don't do dynamics or push that much air. The result, at least to my ears was that they were good for micro detail, but not that great for much else. I always felt that the imaging precision was also lacking compared to some of the great dynamic speakers. Unfortunately, that is still the case ( although greatly reduced) with the new 30.7. I guess one cannot get everything at that price...and possibly with that technology.

 

[audioguy]

I always felt that the imaging precision was also lacking compared to some of the great dynamic speakers. Unfortunately, that is still the case ( although greatly reduced) with the new 30.7. I guess one cannot get everything at that price...and possibly with that technology.

And for folks that are "all about pinpoint imaging", the Maggie will never be their speaker of choice. But it sure does lots of other thing incredibly well !!!