The help of measurements allowed me to take my system to another level

exupgh12

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2019
381
436
150
53
About a month ago, with the advice of Yair Tamam (Magico LLC CTO), I positioned my system in the space in a different way (to the wide side of the room), and the change in location resulted in a considerable jump in the sound quality received.

Nevertheless, I was sure I can squeeze more out of the system and room.

Yesterday my friend who’s also the owner of a business for custom audio and home theater installs brought with him a bunch of equipment for benefit of room measurement and analysis, he also brought with him two large panels for the purpose of bass absorbing.

After connecting his equipment (microphone, computer, Storm sound processor, small subwoofer, and its amp) he started taking the room measurements (countless of them were performed till the end of the day).

After wood he and another friend of me that is also very familiar with room measurement and the use of room correction systems set to analyze the situation and explain to me each graph in great detail (in the end even a layman like me was able to understand all the graphic gibberish).
The good news was that the room does not reverberate and the speaker's frequency of 180 and above is a straight-like line due to Magico’s ability to spread the sound equally.

however, there was a deep in the sound of -12 DB somewhere between 80 and 130 which makes the bass at the listening point sound lower as well as other negative effects on the rest of the sound.

We move the speakers backward, and forward, to the sides, each time repeating the measurements until we finally found an ideal location.
After finding the ideal point for the speakers we started to try placing the bass treatment in several places near the corners to see where they would be placed at their best (again remeasures and analyze after every time we moved the bass treatment).

Finally, after more than 12 measurements to my recall, we reached the desired destination, the bass treatments found a place in the corners when they are parallel to the front wall and hidden behind the curtain.

Bottom line, the use of the bass treatment and the change in location resulted in a huge jump in the quality of the sound at every possible level. as a result of the measurements, we were able to efficiently treat the deep issue in the lower range of sound, bringing the system to another peak, one that makes the listener shiver.

Now the bass sounds more powerful and cleaner than ever, which of course affects the cleanliness and whizzing of the mids and highs.
The end result is a very balanced system, powerful and organic yet detailed but in a good musical way - in short, audiophile nirvana.
It is difficult to impossible to achieve such a result without knowing your room through measurements that let you see the room issues and make it possible to treat/challenge those issues.
 

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AMR / iFi audio

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2019
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ifi-audio.com
I completely agree. Room acoustics is one of the fundamentals of good sound. The proper treatment brings even a good system many levels in quality.
I'm happy to hear about the change it brought to your systems, thank you for sharing :) Are you going to do anything else with the acoustics?
 

godofwealth

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2022
539
830
108
63
These days, it is fairly trivial to correct for room induced dips and peaks using DSP calibration tools. Some of these cost only a few hundred dollars, pocket change compared to the price of your Magico speakers. You should consider getting one of these systems, just as an educational lesson in what DSP can achieve. But it’s not a panacea. The simplest approach measures the speakers at the listening position using an impulse response function (Tact introduced this technology about 25 years ago, but sadly they went out of business). Lyngdorf, who collaborated with Tact, now sells a more advanced version called RoomPerfect that measures the responses in a set of random locations around the room to build up a model of your room. It allows custom adjustments based on your listening preferences (e.g., tailored to exact centered position or a broader adjustment). I have the Lyngdorf 2170, which includes a digital amplifier and a DAC with USB input. They have several models, including the most recent version that has a built in streamer.
 

exupgh12

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2019
381
436
150
53
I completely agree. Room acoustics is one of the fundamentals of good sound. The proper treatment brings even a good system many levels in quality.
I'm happy to hear about the change it brought to your systems, thank you for sharing :) Are you going to do anything else with the acoustics?
After putting the broadband absorption panels the room measurement looks great, and the system sounds better than ever.
As no other issues were observed by the measurements and analysis I'm very happy with the results, further treatment isn't needed.
 

exupgh12

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2019
381
436
150
53
These days, it is fairly trivial to correct for room induced dips and peaks using DSP calibration tools. Some of these cost only a few hundred dollars, pocket change compared to the price of your Magico speakers. You should consider getting one of these systems, just as an educational lesson in what DSP can achieve. But it’s not a panacea. The simplest approach measures the speakers at the listening position using an impulse response function (Tact introduced this technology about 25 years ago, but sadly they went out of business). Lyngdorf, who collaborated with Tact, now sells a more advanced version called RoomPerfect that measures the responses in a set of random locations around the room to build up a model of your room. It allows custom adjustments based on your listening preferences (e.g., tailored to exact centered position or a broader adjustment). I have the Lyngdorf 2170, which includes a digital amplifier and a DAC with USB input. They have several models, including the most recent version that has a built in streamer.
Thank you for your comment, however since Magico sound desperation is very controlled above 200hz, RC won't gain much or anything in such case, think of speakers like Magico, Prelisten, and other well-technically designed speakers as they already employ RC inside them.
If the speaker control desperation, you will gain benefits from RC.
Also, RC will help you very little if at all below 200hz.

From my own experience, every RC that i heard till today - be it Trinnov, Lyngdorf or Storm sounded a bit synthetic, therefor were ever possible I'll prefer passive acoustic treatment.
 

ecwl

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2021
207
172
113
Winnipeg, Canada
After putting the broadband absorption panels the room measurement looks great, and the system sounds better than ever.
As no other issues were observed by the measurements and analysis I'm very happy with the results, further treatment isn't needed.
I think once the bass issues are addressed, people tend to be generally happy. That said, something that’s harder for measurements to pick up (unless you specifically measure for it) is that first reflections from the speakers bouncing off a surface to your ears can blur the sound slightly as the direct and indirect sound get a little mixed.

In your specific room, looking at the photos, sometimes putting a blanket over the coffee table while listening (or removing the coffee table or moving up the coffee table really close to the audio components) so that the tweeter sound can’t bounce off the coffee table into your ears, or having a diffusion/absorption panel to the left and right wall at ear height so that tweeter sound can’t bounce off the side walls to your ears can improve the sound. You may need a mirror to determine where the most important part of the wall needs to be treated as the spot where you can see in the mirror the tweeter from your listening position is where you most want the panel on the side wall. That said, I am probably being picky. If the room already sounds good to you, it probably is.
 

exupgh12

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2019
381
436
150
53
I think once the bass issues are addressed, people tend to be generally happy. That said, something that’s harder for measurements to pick up (unless you specifically measure for it) is that first reflections from the speakers bouncing off a surface to your ears can blur the sound slightly as the direct and indirect sound get a little mixed.

In your specific room, looking at the photos, sometimes putting a blanket over the coffee table while listening (or removing the coffee table or moving up the coffee table really close to the audio components) so that the tweeter sound can’t bounce off the coffee table into your ears, or having a diffusion/absorption panel to the left and right wall at ear height so that tweeter sound can’t bounce off the side walls to your ears can improve the sound. You may need a mirror to determine where the most important part of the wall needs to be treated as the spot where you can see in the mirror the tweeter from your listening position is where you most want the panel on the side wall. That said, I am probably being picky. If the room already sounds good to you, it probably is.
Thank you for your comment.

The room was measured by my friend who is a well-known expert on the subject of professional measurement and acoustic treatment.

Analysis of the measurement showed couple of things:

1. The room doesn't have reverberating issues
2. there was a -12 DB deep between 83 to around 130.
3. no amplitude issues.

*Regarding side panels, Magico has excellent sound control and desperation above 200hz, the measurement showed uniformity, therefor no reverberate issue was shown on the analysis or heard.

*In regard to the coffee table or any other object removal\covering etc..., guys this is a living room and as such, this is its first purpose use. there for everything stay on place.

Many rooms would have been eager to be lucky enough to have the same starting point as my living room (Parallel wales, wide enough and long enough - from the back of the listening point till the back wall there are about 4.5 meters, enough to let low frequencies desperate as it should ), and sure to have the reasults after fixing the speaker position and the acoustic treatment.

Of course, there is no end to the game unless one decides to stop (even so, a "perfect world" doesn't exist)
Since after the repositioning and treatment the Analysis measurement doesn't show problems that need to address I'm happy to stop here without the need to turn my living room look into an audio studio. :)
 

adrianywu

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2021
553
660
108
57
These days, it is fairly trivial to correct for room induced dips and peaks using DSP calibration tools. Some of these cost only a few hundred dollars, pocket change compared to the price of your Magico speakers. You should consider getting one of these systems, just as an educational lesson in what DSP can achieve. But it’s not a panacea. The simplest approach measures the speakers at the listening position using an impulse response function (Tact introduced this technology about 25 years ago, but sadly they went out of business). Lyngdorf, who collaborated with Tact, now sells a more advanced version called RoomPerfect that measures the responses in a set of random locations around the room to build up a model of your room. It allows custom adjustments based on your listening preferences (e.g., tailored to exact centered position or a broader adjustment). I have the Lyngdorf 2170, which includes a digital amplifier and a DAC with USB input. They have several models, including the most recent version that has a built in streamer.
Unfortunately, DSP cannot correct dips due to cancellation, since increasing the level of the signal will also increase the level of the reflection that causes the cancellation.
 

exupgh12

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2019
381
436
150
53
Unfortunately, DSP cannot correct dips due to cancellation, since increasing the level of the signal will also increase the level of the reflection that causes the cancellation.
Indeed, RC is not a magic word that can solve every acoustic issue.
i understand that Dirac is working on a new version, which according to the press release should "significantly improve correction with control in time, frequency, and space, including a higher degree of control over speaker and room response.”
 

Long Live Analog

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2022
145
113
50
62
West Tn. Mid South
About a month ago, with the advice of Yair Tamam (Magico LLC CTO), I positioned my system in the space in a different way (to the wide side of the room), and the change in location resulted in a considerable jump in the sound quality received.

Nevertheless, I was sure I can squeeze more out of the system and room.

Yesterday my friend who’s also the owner of a business for custom audio and home theater installs brought with him a bunch of equipment for benefit of room measurement and analysis, he also brought with him two large panels for the purpose of bass absorbing.

After connecting his equipment (microphone, computer, Storm sound processor, small subwoofer, and its amp) he started taking the room measurements (countless of them were performed till the end of the day).

After wood he and another friend of me that is also very familiar with room measurement and the use of room correction systems set to analyze the situation and explain to me each graph in great detail (in the end even a layman like me was able to understand all the graphic gibberish).
The good news was that the room does not reverberate and the speaker's frequency of 180 and above is a straight-like line due to Magico’s ability to spread the sound equally.

however, there was a deep in the sound of -12 DB somewhere between 80 and 130 which makes the bass at the listening point sound lower as well as other negative effects on the rest of the sound.

We move the speakers backward, and forward, to the sides, each time repeating the measurements until we finally found an ideal location.
After finding the ideal point for the speakers we started to try placing the bass treatment in several places near the corners to see where they would be placed at their best (again remeasures and analyze after every time we moved the bass treatment).

Finally, after more than 12 measurements to my recall, we reached the desired destination, the bass treatments found a place in the corners when they are parallel to the front wall and hidden behind the curtain.

Bottom line, the use of the bass treatment and the change in location resulted in a huge jump in the quality of the sound at every possible level. as a result of the measurements, we were able to efficiently treat the deep issue in the lower range of sound, bringing the system to another peak, one that makes the listener shiver.

Now the bass sounds more powerful and cleaner than ever, which of course affects the cleanliness and whizzing of the mids and highs.
The end result is a very balanced system, powerful and organic yet detailed but in a good musical way - in short, audiophile nirvana.
It is difficult to impossible to achieve such a result without knowing your room through measurements that let you see the room issues and make it possible to treat/challenge those issues.
Beautiful system, and choice of gear, bet it sounds amazing.
 
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exupgh12

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2019
381
436
150
53
Beautiful system, and choice of gear, bet it sounds amazing.
Thank you so much for your comment.
Indeed the system sounds very good (involving, musical and dynamic).
unfortunately, the pictures that were taken don't do justice to the system.
 
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