The big problem comes when several times in one year (a) reviewer claims a huge advance in the state of the art. That's just not credible, as we all know. So are we reading just to see what kind of enthusiastic language a reviewer can use, or are we reading to actually try to learn something more about this hobby/passion/obsession?
The Hyperbole thread
- Thread starter DaveyF
- Start date
mep
I must say that the state of reviewing in the High End has reached new lows ... The good news about it is that the presence of heavy competition from the e and web-zine could change this ...
A for those attacking High End it needs to be criticized: Do we have that much progress in High End Audio that reviewer have to come up seemingly with new hyperbole every other month? Which seems to be the case in these magazines... Is progress so consistent in High End Audio? TO me those are signs of price-fatigue.
Some people are dissatisfied with the ever increasing prices of small to no improvements and we will see more ...
Plus I am not sure I would qualify DaveyF as a High End hater to be a little on the personal side...
---- You just described high-end reviewers, in general, in the world we still live now. Truly.
__________
All I wanted in my life was honesty, fairness, and balance.
And free access for everyone. ...Of true information.
Some people they have chosen a business, a living, others have to live with it.
And it is our right to embrace or denounce.
___________ For me, high-end is Oppo, Paradigm, Integra, Audyssey, JVC, Sony ES, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer Elite (Kuros & all), etc., etc., etc. in service of the people for the people.
Fancy and heavy and pricey designs are not always reflective of innovation and real performance.
My role as a music lover is Music first and value second. I ain't no collector of fancy art museum.
Collectors, and people with extravagant tastes, any tastes, they made a choice according to their lifestyle, we all do the same here.
I don't care if this piece is $1,000 or $100,000 as long as it reflects honesty, balance and good common sense. ...Do you see?
If some people buy their gear for the art form, it's their prerogative, and their happiness is their business. ...And our happiness is our business, business to choose for ourself, without trying of preaching, buying, selling, and "hyperboling" a lifestyle.
The lifestyle is the music listening, not the gear promoting.
I'm here because I'm interested in different type of people, and I might learn some' from them, I am sure of it.
Hey, some gear looks amazingly fantastic! And if the performance goes with it, as the reliability, I might look for a discount down the road. ..If it isn't obsolete of course.
Yesterday's $250,000 stereo sound system is perhaps worth looking today for a quarter of that, which probably reflects more the line of actual value today.
Buy what you can afford that is truly valuable and smart to purchase.
Not the other way around, by letting the seller buying you.
Use 'wiz'; sensible sage.
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Frantz-I’m not talking about DaveyF or accusing him of being a high-end hater. My words stand on their own for how I feel about the attitude of some people who participate on high-end forums.
As for high-end reviewers and the magazines they write for, I buy them and read them to hopefully learn something and be entertained. Hobbies are supposed to be fun aren’t they? If you don’t enjoy the magazines, you have a choice of not reading them.
As for progress being “so consistent” in high-end audio (or not), that could be and has been endlessly debated. Do you think some companies such as Magico are serious about having a relentless drive to design and build better speakers and try to push the state of the art? How about Vandersteen? The cynics would say they aren’t trying to improve on the state of the art, they are just introducing new products to the marketplace. If your favorite electronics company (Burmester) didn’t believe they were introducing new products that were better than their past efforts, would they be introducing them? And I know that Burmester products have a much longer life in the marketplace than many other companies, but they still introduce new products when they think they have something better to offer than their past products.
You recently stated that you are willing to spend no more than $20K for a single piece of electronics and maybe up to $40K for speakers if I read what you wrote correctly. For some, those are outrageous amounts of money and won’t better the sound of a couple thousands of dollars spent on pro-gear. My point is that the price where gear is deemed to be outrageous is all relative and dependent on the customer. At what price point do you want to see companies best efforts be pushed down to price-wise?
As Lyndon Johnson said "Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a good carpenter to build one."
+1.
I actually like some of the hyperbole for entertainment sake. However, IMO, many reviewers need to keep things in perspective, because compared to the 'real' all gear falls down...the only question is where and how.
Some of the hyperbole that one reads would suggest that the 'holy grail' has been found. That kind of review tells me that either the reviewer isn't that discriminatory or something else is wrong. Either way, it tends to push me towards a less
positive opinion of the reviewer in question.
Just to be clear, I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with a reviewer favorably commenting on how a piece of gear that he/she likes sounds...particularly in comparison to another piece that may have heard or reviewed; BUT I would like to
see some of them scale it back a little bit when compared to 'live instruments in a real space'. Just IMHO.
Mep,
I feel in line with most of the comments.
There's no crusade against HighEnd, its goal, its prices and so on.
There's just some criticism towards who claims to have epiphanies every other day: I don't think this helps the newby reader, nor the most expert passionate.
Notwithstanding, we all "need" audio magazines, to feed our hobby itself. It's just a matter to pick the ones we like better.
With regards to this "case", my choice between TAS or Stereophile has been done.
I feel in line with most of the comments.
There's no crusade against HighEnd, its goal, its prices and so on.
There's just some criticism towards who claims to have epiphanies every other day: I don't think this helps the newby reader, nor the most expert passionate.
Notwithstanding, we all "need" audio magazines, to feed our hobby itself. It's just a matter to pick the ones we like better.
With regards to this "case", my choice between TAS or Stereophile has been done.
There is a difference between descriptions that convey information (e.g., ' the soundstage, front to rear, is shallow' or 'instruments are placed with uncanny precision in space') and descriptions which tell little ('you can hear the sweat dripping off the guitarist's forehead' or 'like having the musicians in the room'). I also find criticisms and comparisons to be more informative than glowing conclusions in a vacuum (e.g., 'compared to the X preamp, it lacks the last word in upper octave spaciousness' v 'this preamp will make you revisit your record collection anew').
Some folks are very good writers, which makes the read more enjoyable, but if I'm reading for informed opinion, I want more information and less opinion if that makes any sense.
Nice post, btw, Tomelex.
Some folks are very good writers, which makes the read more enjoyable, but if I'm reading for informed opinion, I want more information and less opinion if that makes any sense.
Nice post, btw, Tomelex.
Just came across this, from an Audioholics review by Gene DellaSala of the Status Acoustics Titus 8T loudspeakers:
“The Status 8T system has an uncanny ability of sounding larger than life yet focused like a laser. Their sound transcends their physical cabinets, which is grandiose and in your face when called to do so, yet delicate like the petals of a rose beckoning you to carefully listen, rewarding you with pure unadulterated audio perfection. The 8T speaker system has a fundamental rightness to its sound that just hooks you into spending more time listening. In fact, the biggest issue I’ve found with these speakers is once you engage in a listening session either solo or with friends, time seems to speed up. Einstein would be puzzled by the reverse time-dilation paradox these speakers often create with unwary listeners. I’ve noticed my wife and I have been plowing through bottles of wine with greater frequently since I’ve gotten these in for review.”
Emphasis added--I actually suspected this from the second sentence.
“The Status 8T system has an uncanny ability of sounding larger than life yet focused like a laser. Their sound transcends their physical cabinets, which is grandiose and in your face when called to do so, yet delicate like the petals of a rose beckoning you to carefully listen, rewarding you with pure unadulterated audio perfection. The 8T speaker system has a fundamental rightness to its sound that just hooks you into spending more time listening. In fact, the biggest issue I’ve found with these speakers is once you engage in a listening session either solo or with friends, time seems to speed up. Einstein would be puzzled by the reverse time-dilation paradox these speakers often create with unwary listeners. I’ve noticed my wife and I have been plowing through bottles of wine with greater frequently since I’ve gotten these in for review.”
Emphasis added--I actually suspected this from the second sentence.
It actually is legal in a couple of states now, though there are still federal laws against it. But our current president says, discreetly, that pursuing the enforcement of those laws will not be a national priority.
Tim
Tim
It actually is legal in a couple of states now, though there are still federal laws against it. But our current president says, discreetly, that pursuing the enforcement of those laws will not be a national priority.
Tim
Oh No! What I had in mind is not legal anywhere in the US and may never be ...
Ah....a different mind-altering substance. I'll stick with my wine and bourbon, thanks. Even relatively small amounts, and the opening of perception they enable are, perhaps, The greatest system upgrades. Recently, listening to headphones, I thought for a moment I could actually feel the bass in my chest. But it was just my heart pounding to the thrill of the music.
Tim
Tim
we all realize, i'm sure, that magazines own the copyrights to the review verbage.....and actually license (make money) from a manufacturer's use of this verbage on their website or in advertising. it's a source of revenue. the more verbage is desired to be licensed, the better.
so the magazines are certainly not motivated to tone down superlatives at all.
i'm not suggesting any overt encouragement to over-the-top viewpoints toward reviewers; but not much reason to hold them back.
those 'comments' on covers are not accidental.
so the magazines are certainly not motivated to tone down superlatives at all.
i'm not suggesting any overt encouragement to over-the-top viewpoints toward reviewers; but not much reason to hold them back.
those 'comments' on covers are not accidental.
It seems we are mixing emptiness with verbiage. I tolerate and can even enjoy some verbiage in a well carried review. However debating verbiage reading an extreme and ridiculous quote, that IMHO can not be considered an audio review leads us to miss the real point, as pointed by Mike Lavigne.
IMHO verbiage is possible because most of us have sometimes experienced great moments in sound reproduction, feelings that no one can fully explain in simple words. However, if some one using superlative wording and exaggeration manages to describe something similar to what we have experienced in the past, most of us are prepared to accept it, ignoring the exaggeration and capturing just the essence of the description.
IMHO verbiage is possible because most of us have sometimes experienced great moments in sound reproduction, feelings that no one can fully explain in simple words. However, if some one using superlative wording and exaggeration manages to describe something similar to what we have experienced in the past, most of us are prepared to accept it, ignoring the exaggeration and capturing just the essence of the description.
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