The Mysterious Case of the Listening Window! By Jeff Day, Positive Feedback

[ddk]

Yes, it's a column, not a review or an editorial. He gets to write anything he wants. And we each get to think of it what we choose. If I don't care for it that is not a reflection on your posting about it or bringing it to our attention. I did/do no see in the article what you and David see. That's okay. Heck we've got 240+ replies, so it must be worth talking about. There's our reward.

Honestly Tim I read Jeff's page as I would read a post here from a fellow audiophile and not as a columnist or reviewer. What resonated with me is what @PeterA, @Tango, @the sound of Tao et all are writing about, finally the JOY of listening to music rather than the system. When the system is more natural sounding so is the reaction of the individual. There's no dissection of the sound, just a mention of the equipment, no measurements and graphs, no endless pseudo intellectual meanderings about the philosophical and theoretical. No nauseating pseudo engineering! When you get to the point with the setup that you enjoy the music and not hear the system, wether its good or bad, the experience with the reproduction can be as emotionally satisfying as the live experience. This is what high end is about for me and that's what I got from Jeff.

david

 

[DaveC]

What I particularly love with my Natural(TM) system is the angels singing their praises and the golden light beaming down on my system from the heavens above. Then I grab my water bottle and it's changed to wine! This is what the high end is all about for me, and for my lucky customers.

 

[Lagonda]

What I particularly love with my Natural(TM) system is the angels singing their praises and the golden light beaming down on my system from the heavens above. Then I grab my water bottle and it's changed to wine! This is what the high end is all about for me, and for my lucky customers.

Really ? I have to try those ZenWave cables

 

[Al M.]

Really ? I have to try those ZenWave cables

Yes, you do!

 

[DaveC]

Really ? I have to try those ZenWave cables

The cables are not cheap, but eventually you'll make it up in free wine.

 

[Joe Whip]

Now, I can sell these cables to my wife!

 

[ddk]

Really ? I have to try those ZenWave cables

I think you should get them too Milan, I hear that this is the wine by the carton model, just look at the color!




But IMHO you should go try moonshine!

Go here http://www.furutech.com/2017/05/10/14783/
for some purple wire and ill fitting plugs, very important to get the ones that slip out easily and you'll need something to hold it in for you. then follow the angel's voice;

I know it's a little fuzzy but hey it's moonshine on the cheap. Just add fishnet and a name tag for the singing and spreading.



david

 

[Al M.]

When I encouraged Lagonda to try ZenWave cables, I actually had more in mind ZenWave interconnects and speaker cables such as I have. Excellent resolution, natural sound.

But sure, anyone who wants to try the power cables as well, should do so. I do like the purple color, actually.

 

[ddk]

When I encouraged Lagonda to try ZenWave cables, I actually had more in mind ZenWave interconnects and speaker cables such as I have. Excellent resolution, natural sound.

But sure, anyone who wants to try the power cables as well, should do so. I do like the purple color, actually.

I only heard him speak about power cords with correct electrical character,

..it should be chosen by it's design and electrical characteristics instead? It doesn't have to be fancy, but it could certainly be objectively defined

Just didn't realize by character he meant they come with him singing and drinking au Natural(TM)!

david

 

[Tango]

Not to forget the "Holy" line cable holder. It would protect your socket from the evil of Lord Valdemort.

 

[DaveC]

Ok, I have a confession: I'm a Furutech dealer. I sell Furutech cables along with my own ZenWave Cables, which primarily use Neotech wire.

Unfortunately, you can't get the hot pink Furutech DPS anymore, that was a limited edition and was replaced by the only slightly less offensive purple Furutech DPS-4.1. Other than the color they are the exact same cables. So now you get purple, but for those who have hot pink originals, hold on to them... they may be classics one day. Pink sounds better, I can't believe everyone doesn't know this!

And I know... Furutech is a cheap, bargain-basement brand unfit for most people. A cable that cost $450/m using connectors priced at $790/set is certainly akin to drinking boxed wine for some. Despite this, the DPS-4 is quite good imo. It's warm, but still has good clarity and dynamics. My new copper ribbon cable has replaced it as a regular offering as it's better all around, but less warm and doesn't have this nice bloom to the upper mids the DPS has.

ZenWave offers the DPS-4.1 for the cost of parts, I do the assembly for free. This includes:

- Techflex Jacket
- Careful termination using Furutech nano-fluid to prevent corrosion and enhance the contact.
- Burn in on a high-power AudioDharma cable cooker
- Free USPS priority mail shipping in the USA. 45% off DHL Express rates internationally.

Here's more info from Jay at AudioBacon, he correctly assesses the effects of my termination and burn-in, imo. So not only do you get the free assembly, it's being done by a degreed mechanical engineer with over 20 years experience making cables.

ZenWave DPS-4
There’s actually an alternative (pre-built) DPS-4 that is worth considering. What’s interesting is that both of these cables use the same wire and connectors – but they sound appreciably different. I suspect this is due to the solder, technique, cable cooker, or perhaps some other secret sauce used by ZenWave.

Truth be told, both of these cables are far better than the Vovox Textura, Acrolink, and Neotech. Therefore, a logical cable to upgrade to if you enjoy a warmer tone.

So ZenWave’s DPS-4 still has many of the qualities of the original DPS-4, but it has more air up top. It’s more sparkly and clean. The tradeoff is a bit of the organics and solidity. Relatively, it’s still warm, elegant, and throws out a large sound. It’s not exactly the best of both worlds – but if you want more brilliance, it’s worth a listen.

Please click the link to see more pics of the ZWA-built Furutech DPS-4. Also, if you look at the table of contents 2 of my other power cables are in there, the silver ribbon won best in class for the higher priced cables:

https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/8/

 

[PeterA]

Good clean power was not enough any more, so Ozzy added some brilliance and sparkle and a touch of warmth and this is what he saw through the listening window:

"Goin' home late last night,
Suddenly I got a fright
Yeah, I looked through a window and surprise what I saw
Fairy boots are dancin' with a dwarf
All right now
Yeah fairies wear boots, and you gotta believe me
Yeah, I saw it, I saw it I tell you no lies
Yeah Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it I saw it with my own two eyes
Woah right now"

 

[tima]

Honestly Tim I read Jeff's page as I would read a post here from a fellow audiophile and not as a columnist or reviewer. What resonated with me is what @PeterA, @Tango, @the sound of Tao et all are writing about, finally the JOY of listening to music rather than the system. When the system is more natural sounding so is the reaction of the individual. There's no dissection of the sound, just a mention of the equipment, no measurements and graphs, no endless pseudo intellectual meanderings about the philosophical and theoretical. No nauseating pseudo engineering! When you get to the point with the setup that you enjoy the music and not hear the system, wether its good or bad, the experience with the reproduction can be as emotionally satisfying as the live experience. This is what high end is about for me and that's what I got from Jeff.

david

I read your thoughts here carefully as I do all your posts. I find them wholly genuine. I really have no issues or objections to what you're writing here and elsewhere and I"ve tried to tell you that. I've written plenty here and more in my published work about the JOY of listening to music. I"ve written many times about my favorite gear being that which did not make me think about it or system.

Both you and Peter objected to (or however you want to put it Peter) about my saying Day was offering a strawman argument. I tried addressing that in a post to Peter - the one to which you are responding here. (He didn't give me the courtesy of a reply.)

The difference here between us is that I do not read these as Day's thoughts or a summation of what he is after. He doesn't say that to me. It's our difference of reaction to an article, a post if you prefer. Presumably we can discuss what he wrote even if we don't see it the same way. Day's view is predicated on his notion of "this wide listening window possible in a high-fidelity, high-performance, audio system." I re-read the article a 3rd time honestly looking for something I could correlate to your above interpretation. Wide listening window good; narrow listening window failure.

If Day had not talked soley in terms of system maybe I'd think differently. But unlike your own words which appeal to the joy of music and do not appeal to the joy of system, Day asks "For me that's what high-fidelity audio is all about, and the non-intuitive part of it is why do so many high-priced and high-performance enthusiast audio systems totally suck at being able to accomplish that feat when some of the vintage gear could do that so easily? What's the secret? " And proceeds - in what was a letdown to me - to answer by telling us about his equipment.

Then he says "So what is it about the circuits and components used in those circuits that give them the ability to have a such a wide listening window, and how was it accomplished with those two very different - vacuum tube and solid state - components? " Another dissapointment - he doesn't really answer that outside the frame of his own equipment. Perhaps you think he is talking about what leads to a natural sound. I did not get that from what he wrote. I did not read or interpret him trying to say that wide listening window = joy of music, natural sound. It's really that simple.

I realize that Day talks largely in terms of vintage equipment, and that you have a strong affinity for vintage equipment. I don't presume your interpretation of Day is because of that.

 

[Tango]

Am i the only one that occasionally gives the speakers a hug, or the amps a appreciative pad after a good performance ?

Lagonda san for goodness sake. Nothing beyond that please.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Not to forget the "Holy" line cable holder. It would protect your socket from the evil of Lord Valdemort.

In a game so full of the very dark rituals it is good to keep one’s holy power socket protected from unnatural vibrations at all times... I wrap mine in leather full of the philosopher’s stones hidden in it’s secret chambers... but perhaps that’s a story for a different time ... or for a different forum even

 

[microstrip]

IMHO the more valuable and unfortunately too vague part of the Jeff Day article were the references to Stokowsky work in sound reproduction. I would love to know more about that as I could not find solid information about it. However I read that, as several other conductors, Stokowsky, known for his musical liberties, changed the position of musicians and even added instruments to make recordings more pleasant. How would people who had been at the real concerts feel when listening to these recordings?

 

[PeterA]

Both you and Peter objected to (or however you want to put it Peter) about my saying Day was offering a strawman argument. I tried addressing that in a post to Peter - the one to which you are responding here. (He didn't give me the courtesy of a reply.)

Good Morning Tim,

Do you mean that I did not give you the courtesy of a reply to your post #248? I had thought the topic of the strawman and set up had already been sufficiently addressed in my post #217 and in my explanation that my goals have not really changed, that is, moving closer to my reference to live unamplified music. I have just learned to improve my system set up with David's help to get me closer to that goal. Jim Smith of course did this years earlier, but his efforts were less comprehensive involving only the speaker and listening seat repositioning. He worked with my former two way speakers which despite their many strengths, simply could not portray the scale and power of larger scale music. He did not set up my current speakers as someone, perhaps you, suggested. After I got my larger speakers, it became easier to pursue a larger listening window of music to include larger scale music. Rock music and Jazz also sounded more convincing for different reasons. In my case, the new speakers, their modified positioning, and the removal of stuff from the system and room, all improved set up and increased the listening window, in part because it is a more holistic, and natural sound.

The point is that set up was integral to the increased appreciation of music as played through my new system, and this seems to be a part of what Jeff Day and Jim Smith discuss. Mr. Day brings this up in his comments at the end of the article which I think should be read to better understand his thoughts introduced in the article itself.

Anyway, you seemed to want to move the discussion away from my system and my goals when you wrote this:

So, I don't question your saying your preferences/goals have not changed - that's not my perogative. It does seem that your approach? orientation? tactics? to achieving them did change. Your emphasis on what is important in achieving your preferences, or where your satisfaction is in terms of achieving your preferences, does seem to have changed. There's nothing wrong with that! I assume changing speaker toe-in to a straight ahead position was a relatively significant change in your room. Somewhat recently you use the term "natural" more frequently and contrast it with "hi-fi". But enough about you - you're not the topic.

I took that to mean that you wanted to move on and so I did not respond. Now reading this morning that I was not courteous toward you made me reconsider. I hope now that this response is satisfactory, even if we do not necessarily agree.

 

[stehno]

I read your thoughts here carefully as I do all your posts. I find them wholly genuine. I really have no issues or objections to what you're writing here and elsewhere and I"ve tried to tell you that. I've written plenty here and more in my published work about the JOY of listening to music. I"ve written many times about my favorite gear being that which did not make me think about it or system.

Both you and Peter objected to (or however you want to put it Peter) about my saying Day was offering a strawman argument. I tried addressing that in a post to Peter - the one to which you are responding here. (He didn't give me the courtesy of a reply.)

The difference here between us is that I do not read these as Day's thoughts or a summation of what he is after. He doesn't say that to me. It's our difference of reaction to an article, a post if you prefer. Presumably we can discuss what he wrote even if we don't see it the same way. Day's view is predicated on his notion of "this wide listening window possible in a high-fidelity, high-performance, audio system." I re-read the article a 3rd time honestly looking for something I could correlate to your above interpretation. Wide listening window good; narrow listening window failure.

If Day had not talked soley in terms of system maybe I'd think differently. But unlike your own words which appeal to the joy of music and do not appeal to the joy of system, Day asks "For me that's what high-fidelity audio is all about, and the non-intuitive part of it is why do so many high-priced and high-performance enthusiast audio systems totally suck at being able to accomplish that feat when some of the vintage gear could do that so easily? What's the secret? " And proceeds - in what was a letdown to me - to answer by telling us about his equipment.

Then he says "So what is it about the circuits and components used in those circuits that give them the ability to have a such a wide listening window, and how was it accomplished with those two very different - vacuum tube and solid state - components? " Another dissapointment - he doesn't really answer that outside the frame of his own equipment. Perhaps you think he is talking about what leads to a natural sound. I did not get that from what he wrote. I did not read or interpret him trying to say that wide listening window = joy of music, natural sound. It's really that simple.

I realize that Day talks largely in terms of vintage equipment, and that you have a strong affinity for vintage equipment. I don't presume your interpretation of Day is because of that.

Interesting. Reading between the lines a bit it from Jeff Day's article it seemed I was reminded more than once that his ability to discern / interpret what he hears is most likely too lacking. I thought it was that simple.

 

[Folsom]

Lagonda san for goodness sake. Nothing beyond that please.

Says the man that could live in his bass cabinets.

 

[PeterA]

Says the man that could live in his bass cabinets.

Tang’s speakers have nice curves. I would understand a caress if not a full embrace