The new audiophile vinyl series The Original Source from Deutsche Grammophon (AAA)

[Mike Lavigne]

I agree but you have to spend a lot more on a vinyl system to sound better, at least at the ultra high end. A Taiko Extreme, which is really in a class of One, seriously, plus a world class DAC, is about $100K.
A TT and phono stage will be hard pressed to sound as good, in all respects, for the same price.

mostly disagree.

it's all about the actual record you choose to play. there is a lot of musically significant difference from pressing to pressing.

maybe another way to put it is that digital cannot compete musically (IMHO) with better pressings even with a modestly priced quality vinyl front end.....total under $50k for a ballpark, even with the very best digital such as my Wadax combo, or my previous Taiko Extreme/MSB Select II. with vinyl, pressings trump the gear part. with digital the media is a trivial aspect of the whole. easy to have and easy to acquire.

but......with the very top level digital it can remind and resemble vinyl and make us forget about needing it. and with superior access and selection that is enough for it to be very worthy. even though my vinyl is very good, i still listen more to digital as that is where the music is and many times the ease of digital is more significant than the ultimate sonic results of vinyl.

so......relative to this thread, acquiring really top level vinyl pressings does make sense. if it hits the mark, it will be superior to digital with any solid vinyl playback gear. it has a higher ceiling. but don't get me wrong, i am passionate about my digital listening experience too.

YMMV, just my 2 cents, and all that stuff.

 

[drrsutliff]

Ordered all four. I like my digital but listening to quality analogue makes up most my time doing critical listening. This is an excellent opportunity to expand my DGs classical collection.

 

[Zeotrope]

The state of the art in digital playback is the Taiko Extreme with XDMS. XDMS is night and day different vs Roon or Taiko’s previous software. As good as the Extreme was with those, XDMS takes it to a new level.

I agree with most of what you wrote @Mike Lavigne, and that’s why I’m returning to vinyl after thinking I would never go back after the Extreme. I’m certainly going to continue listening to digital however, there are advantages that are difficult to match with analog, and the Extreme just keeps getting better.

 

[spiritofmusic]

All four of the DGs ordered. It's a blessed relief my spend on gear and tweaks has come pretty much to an end leaving me the budget for pricier vinyl. These, the Tone Poets and other BN reissues etc.

 

[ACHiPo]

I am confident that a $100,000 turntable/tonearm/cartridge/phono stage will beat any digital according to at least seven out of ten randomly selected audiophiles.

I’m not so sure Ron. At this point analog vs digital to me is down to which medium has the music I want to hear, not sound quality. I don’t have $100k in each front end, but about the same in digital and analog and they are both outstanding.

Now back to those DG records…

 

[Zeotrope]

I’m not so sure Ron. At this point analog vs digital to me is down to which medium has the music I want to hear, not sound quality. I don’t have $100k in each front end, but about the same in digital and analog and they are both outstanding.

Now back to those DG records…

You would need a Very special turntable and phono stage to beat the Taiko Extreme with XDMS and a top level DAC.
My ~$100k setup certainly does not; but it does show promise - it does excel in some areas. It’s certainly not better overall, but you could argue that for what matters to you, it’s better.
I have a Nagra TT on order which should excel the digital system - we will see!

 

[djsina2]

Something wrong if your $100k analog can’t beat a computer.

 

[Zeotrope]

Something wrong if your $100k analog can’t beat a computer.

You haven’t heard this computer!

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

You haven’t heard this computer!

Is your computer one of the latest upcoming generations with artificial intelligence and can sing like a bird (or even a great singer past present or future) ?

 

[Zeotrope]

Even

Is your computer one of the latest upcoming generations with artificial intelligence and can sing like a bird (or even a great singer past present or future) ?

Even better: it’s the Taiko Extreme. Read the reviews and the forum thread here.

 

[adrianywu]

I bought this 3 Lp set a couple of years ago. It's numbered, cut from original master tapes at Emil Berliner studios, pressed at Pallas and includes a copy of recording data. I think the concept is more or less the same with these new titles. Regarding how good this one sounds I can easily guess these new titles will sound even better.

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I have copies of the master tapes from the Melodiya archives. (Mvravinsky had a contract with Melodiya, and they agreed to allow DGG to make the recordings in exchange for getting the rights to release the recordings in the USSR). They are my most treasured tapes. I guess everyone involved with these recordings lived through the horrors of Stalin rule and this gave them a different perspective. Send chills down my spine every time. I can barely listen to the Pathetique, as it leaves me feeling depressed for the rest of the day !

 

[Zeotrope]

Hopefully you’ll not need to contact Deutsche Grammophon customer service. They take weeks to reply and when they do, it’s useless info.
I placed a $2000 order which looked like it was shipped to the wrong address: signed for by someone I don’t know (but the address was correct). It took over a month to learn that German customs had returned it to DG, and the person who signed for it actually works at DG!

Next, you will be taxed twice if you live outside the EU. They charge VAT when you order, which they should not do. You will also be charged your local country sales tax. I have been going back and forth with them on this and they never answer the question as to why they are charging VAT. My understanding is that small companies sometimes are not setup to not charge VAT; but Universal Music is clearly not a small co.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I have a Nagra TT on order which should excel the digital system - we will see!

congrats on having the Nagra tt on order!!!

exciting stuff.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Hopefully you’ll not need to contact Deutsche Grammophon customer service. They take weeks to reply and when they do, it’s useless info.
I placed a $2000 order which looked like it was shipped to the wrong address: signed for by someone I don’t know (but the address was correct). It took over a month to learn that German customs had returned it to DG, and the person who signed for it actually works at DG!

Next, you will be taxed twice if you live outside the EU. They charge VAT when you order, which they should not do. You will also be charged your local country sales tax. I have been going back and forth with them on this and they never answer the question as to why they are charging VAT. My understanding is that small companies sometimes are not setup to not charge VAT; but Universal Music is clearly not a small co.

That shouldn't be happening according to the Regulations etc. agreed between the EU and the UK (part of the Brexit deal).

For VAT on goods being imported into the UK, the company sending the new goods you have bought from them have to show the VAT charge separately on their invoice from the net cost of the goods and net delivery cost which is part of the Customs paper work for importing into the UK.

You should therefore only be paying for the net (i.e. no VAT) cost of both the goods themselves and the delivery cost.

Then when it comes into the UK, the UK Customs add on the UK VAT (currently 20%) to the net price you paid for the goods plus the net price of the delivery charge plus the UK Customs admin & handling etc. fee.

If the goods are 2nd hand you shouldn't be paying any VAT at all no matter where ever you have bought it from in the world as VAT has already been charged on such goods before when it was bought new by somebody.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

congrats on having the Nagra tt on order!!!

exciting stuff.

As I am sure you know full well 'Zeotrope' it's not just the TT itself.

It is all of the analogue chain including the quality of the vinyl itself and the overall system chain synergy i.e. the same rules and challenges for any analogue or digital system.

The beauty of a TT set-up is that you can change every single component and set-up each individual component to your hearts content to fine tune your system source.

Digital system are very much limited (if not impossible for some components) to be able to undertake such single component changes. Basically with digital systems you get what you are given (based on just zero's and ones !).

 

[Zeotrope]

That shouldn't be happening according to the Regulations etc. agreed between the EU and the UK (part of the Brexit deal).

For VAT on goods being imported into the UK, the company sending the new goods you have bought from them have to show the VAT charge separately on their invoice from the net cost of the goods and net delivery cost which is part of the Customs paper work for importing into the UK.

You should therefore only be paying for the net (i.e. no VAT) cost of both the goods themselves and the delivery cost.

Then when it comes into the UK, the UK Customs add on the UK VAT (currently 20%) to the net price you paid for the goods plus the net price of the delivery charge plus the UK Customs admin & handling etc. fee.

If the goods are 2nd hand you shouldn't be paying any VAT at all no matter where ever you have bought it from in the world as VAT has already been charged on such goods before when it was bought new by somebody.

Agreed. Same for shipping anywhere outside the EU. Tell this to Deutsche Grammaphon!
It's bizarre - their customer service works like a startup -- that's run poorly.
DG handles none of the e-commerce anymore, so emails to DG will get politely answered but say that they don't know anything. Bravado handles ecommerce -- they are terrible!
Just be prepared to pay double the tax if you order from DG.com.

 

[Zeotrope]

As I am sure you know full well 'Zeotrope' it's not just the TT itself.

It is all of the analogue chain including the quality of the vinyl itself and the overall system chain synergy i.e. the same rules and challenges for any analogue or digital system.

The beauty of a TT set-up is that you can change every single component and set-up each individual component to your hearts content to fine tune your system source.

Digital system are very much limited (if not impossible for some components) to be able to undertake such single component changes. Basically with digital systems you get what you are given (based on just zero's and ones !).

Agreed but it's the same with digital. I thought the same as you but now realize that everything matters with digital, just like it does with analog. - • • • quality of the digital file
• router and switch used
• power supply
• music server/streamer hardware
• music server/streamer software
• DAC
• cables

All make a difference! Including the Ethernet switch used to communicate with the music server -- even for local file playback!
That said, if you get all these right, the sound is very very good. It will not sound "digital" at all.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Agreed. Same for shipping anywhere outside the EU. Tell this to Deutsche Grammaphon!
It's bizarre - their customer service works like a startup -- that's run poorly.
DG handles none of the e-commerce anymore, so emails to DG will get politely answered but say that they don't know anything. Bravado handles ecommerce -- they are terrible!
Just be prepared to pay double the tax if you order from DG.com.

Thank you for the 'heads up' 'Zeotrope'. Much appreciated.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Agreed but it's the same with digital. I thought the same as you but now realize that everything matters with digital, just like it does with analog. - • • • quality of the digital file
• router and switch used
• power supply
• music server/streamer hardware
• music server/streamer software
• DAC
• cables

All make a difference! Including the Ethernet switch used to communicate with the music server -- even for local file playback!
That said, if you get all these right, the sound is very very good. It will not sound "digital" at all.

Yes 100%.
The major difference I have found with analogue (especially turntable set-ups) vs digital is it is much easier to get an analogue rig wrong making it sound not good at all (or even terrible) as there are more static and dynamic variables to play with, adjust and tinker with, and get wrong which in experienced capable hands is great, but if not it can end in tears ! Get it right, and it's audio bliss !

Digital doesn't have so many dynamic and static variables to get wrong not play with and therefore in it's nature is more repeatable and consistent than analogue if you compare and type group all of the components for each of the sources.

 

[astrotoy]

I have copies of the master tapes from the Melodiya archives. (Mvravinsky had a contract with Melodiya, and they agreed to allow DGG to make the recordings in exchange for getting the rights to release the recordings in the USSR). They are my most treasured tapes. I guess everyone involved with these recordings lived through the horrors of Stalin rule and this gave them a different perspective. Send chills down my spine every time. I can barely listen to the Pathetique, as it leaves me feeling depressed for the rest of the day !

I also have a copy of the master tape, but only the Pathetique. Really powerful, emotional stuff. Mravinsky only did a limited number of studio recordings. Most of his recordings (I have a few other master tape copies) are live performances with his orchestra, the Leningrad Philharmonic. Definitely worth seeking out. EMI has a boxed set SLS5212 as well as four single record releases - ASD2598 Shost Sym12, ASD2805 Shost Sym6, Sibelius Sym7, ASD2912 Hindemith Harmonie der Welt, ASD2964 Honegger Sym3, Bartok Music for SPC. The last one was on the TAS Superdisc List for a few years in 1980's. These are all Melodiya recordings that cross licensed with EMI. Pressings generally much better than original Melodiya pressings. In the used market, they typically command a premium over other ASD and SLS recordings released at the same time. Larry