The new audiophile vinyl series The Original Source from Deutsche Grammophon (AAA)

[Al M.]

When DG says: “Mastered from the original source and pressed on 180 gram vinyl” [not for an Original Source release] does this mean that they could have still converted to digital, or is it all analog?

As far as I have read about it, it is all entirely analog. That's the passion of the people involved in the releases.

 

[Zeotrope]

As far as I have read about it, it is all entirely analog. That's the passion of the people involved in the releases.

Yes, for the Original Source; but I’m asking about a normal DG title that says “mastered from analog…”?

 

[Al M.]

I have a signed copy of Hilary Hahn’s 6 sonatas for violin. It sounds great - I can “see” the orientation of her violin in my room. But both records have the spindle hole off center!

That Hilary Hahn album of the Ysaye sonatas is great as well, I agree. I have heard it on vinyl and have the CD myself.

Given its recent provenance, I assume it's a digital recording.

 

[Al M.]

Yes, for the Original Source; but I’m asking about a normal DG title that says “mastered from analog…”?

Sorry, I misread. For most of the recent cases I assume the recording is digital.

When it is all analog, they tend to proudly announce it, as they did with the Bruckner 7 direct-to-disc a few years ago.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

When DG says: “Mastered from the original source and pressed on 180 gram vinyl” [not for an Original Source release] does this mean that they could have still converted to digital, or is it all analog?

need to dig a little. Discog has some info about that. but the original recording/mastering date for the first pressing can help. if it's 77' or prior then it's tape. 78' forward it's a question.

as far as how pure the reissue process might be, i think mostly you take them at their word. but that is not an iron clad guarantee. my experience is that the DG earlier (non OS) reissues had a good sound, not always the quietest, but tone and refinement up there. many times better than the earlier 70's original DG pressings which could sound a little thin and threadbare.

 

[Zeotrope]

Thank you, both. I agree that if it is all analog, they proudly declare it. Otherwise, we can assume there’s a digital conversion.

 

[bonzo75]

When DG says: “Mastered from the original source and pressed on 180 gram vinyl” [not for an Original Source release] does this mean that they could have still converted to digital, or is it all analog?

DG sold off their tubed equipment in the 60s so even if they mastered in analog from their original source from the Tulip era they don’t have the equipment as good as the original source.

 

[UEM]

Sorry, if this has already been mentioned ?

There is this video, explaining a lot
The Original Source Series - Expert Discussion (full-length) - YouTube

excerpt:
"....The renowned Berlin-based Emil Berliner Studios are remastering 4-track recordings from the 1970s, using their own cutting-edge and 100% pure analogue techniques to create versions of the highest possible audio quality. Produced on 180g virgin vinyl by Optimal, the discs are being issued in deluxe gatefold editions featuring additional photos and recording documentation. ....."

From my point however, the use of the "Quadro-Tape" sources seems the unique aspect.

Regards
Urs

 

[oldvinyl]

As noted in the above link (thank you), DG will issue more copies of the first batch in the Original Source Series.

“The official release date is 16th February for all retailers, but it will have a pre-release in our D2C-Shop on 21st December here https://store.deutschegrammophon.com/p30-i3200, and the pre-order for that will start on Friday 1st December when the product will be made available again.”

"These records will be identical to the original releases, except they will not be numbered copies."

I'm curious what people think about a series of records initially advertised as numbered limited editions, now - in a very short time - being issued further apparently without any limit on issue size.

The OSS thus far has proved (to me anyway) that the use of the 4-track non-digital masters in an AAA process, coupled with near-silent vinyl, is a huge success. Imo, all future vinyl from DG should be done this way with the value of an AAA process being recognized.

On the one hand those buying the numbered limited edition received a pressing presumably made inside the edition limit of NNNN. I don't know how many copies are considered an early pressing or how many stampers DG made. On the other hand, one might see this as a kind of broken promise. There is a certain urgency and chachet associated to limited editions that might be perceived as added value. Whether that holds up over time we shall see. On the third hand there is the opportunity for those missing out to acquire a desirable all-analog issue -- whose initial price was not cheap - but now without a a reseller markup.

Fwiw, as of December 2nd, the first batch still shows as sold-out.

Maybe we should stop raving about how much we like them.

 

[tima]

Good morning Tim,

I have mixed feelings about this. DG and EBS really hyped up the specialness and collectibility of this Limited Edition Series. It's fun getting in on a limited run... adds a little bit of excitement to the hunt of finding great records

For people who collect records for the sole purpose of selling at a later date for a huge profit... I think they will be dismayed.

For people like me who search out the best pressings, recording quality and best performance with the most desired musicians.... I don't think it will make much difference to me. Plus, when you add in the fact that we can now have another opportunity to get a previous title that we may have missed out on... that could be considered a win.

Don't get me wrong though.... I have a lot of NM records that are worth hundreds of dollars more now than when I had first purchased them. I consider that to be an extra bonus for my loved ones if they decide to sell them when I go up to the pearly gates. I just don't purchase records with the goal of selling them for a profit, but rather to simply enjoy listening them.

Best wishes,
Don

Yeah, I have mixed feelings as well. I've never sold a record. I just don't like it when a manufacturer says one thing and does another. I remember people being a wee bit upset over MFSL.

 

[Zeotrope]

I’m finding about half of my albums are slightly off center and/or slightly warped. Nothing that the DS Audio ES-001 and AFI flattener cannot fix; but disappointing given the provenance.

 

[Al M.]

For people who collect records for the sole purpose of selling at a later date for a huge profit... I think they will be dismayed.

I guess once you make a business out of collecting music...I can't commiserate with them, sorry.

For people like me who search out the best pressings, recording quality and best performance with the most desired musicians.... I don't think it will make much difference to me. Plus, when you add in the fact that we can now have another opportunity to get a previous title that we may have missed out on... that could be considered a win.

Yes, in the service of music the extra runs are a great choice.

 

[DetroitVinylRob]

Ok, so no one needs me to explain that the idea of scarcity and exclusivity in limited editions is a marketing ploy. That does nothing for me. But perhaps buy the white labels if you find value there.

Record pressings, like the live performance, the true value is in the experience and keeping in mind the temporal nature of our existence.

So I say, do it right DG and I’m happy to pay for the experience.

After missing out on a number of the first lot titles and not acquiescing to the reseller pirating. As I was initially oblivious to this high quality issuing, I am now so very pleased that a second edition is coming to make more ears and hearts joyful!

 

[bonzo75]

View attachment 112013View attachment 112014

Szell courtesy the General.

still got a few more performances to go through


View attachment 112015

some more to add to the previous. Also compared the original to the TOS, no comparison. That said the original is not from the Deutsche tulip era.

 

[Kjetil]

Are there any tulip era four track masters?

 

[bonzo75]

Are there any tulip era four track masters?

nope. The TOS are from 4 track masters that were issued after the tulip era

 

[orfeo_monteverdi]

[...] Also compared the original to the TOS, no comparison.

[Please forgive my poor English]

Could you please explicit a little? (which one is best? How would you qualify the difference in sound? - sorry for the stupid question, vinyl newbie here... - I understand you concede that the original had some "excuse", for sounding less good IIUC).

Wednesday, I will attend a Beethoven #7 (and #6), by Jordi Savall conducting Le Concert des Nations, playing ancient instruments.

 

[bonzo75]

[Please forgive my poor English]

Could you please explicit a little? (which one is best? How would you qualify the difference in sound? - sorry for the stupid question, vinyl newbie here... - I understand you concede that the original had some "excuse", for sounding less good IIUC).

Wednesday, I will attend a Beethoven #7 (and #6), by Jordi Savall conducting Le Concert des Nations, playing ancient instruments.

It’s better in all respects, with just much dynamic contrast, weight, musical lines unravel beautifully and you can follow through, goes small and grows big when required, great performance. Having heard Szell, Klemperer, Karajan, Bernstein, Reiner I think the TOS Kleiber is fantastic sonically and performance wise. The only other one I desire for the 7th is the Konwitschny on Youtube. Never heard it on LP and there might not be a good one. Toscanini is great on YT. In terms of performance I don’t like Kleiber’s first movement could have been a more special. The Fricsay I tried was a poor reissue so might try that again given how much I like some of his other work.

I would say in rare cases the TOS might not sound good in some systems – this is a case with LPs, not all LPs sound good on all systems, for various reasons… but you will be fine with this LP alone if it sounds good in yours, and for the money it costs it is a steal. So I would get the the LP if you can find it or if DGG issues again

 

[Kjetil]

It’s possible to preorder an unnumbered reprint of the Kleiber LvB7 from DG now. Don’t know about other sellers.

 

[oldvinyl]

I noticed that the next batch of DG Original Source Vinyl is not available, or at least I cannot find it, on Amazon or Acoustic Sounds. The DG store itself is now only showing the Strauss and Tchaikovsky, the Steinberg set is not listed.