I find that a few very select lps can sound better than digital. Most lps don’t sound as good as cd or sacd.
The truth about vinyl.vinyl vs digital
- Thread starter Gregadd
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For me, the technical effort and the great work of making a vinyl record always puts a higher degree of love for the music in the back of my mind. That's why I think a lot of people prefer the analog long-playing record than a digital recording that is recorded relatively carelessly.
Sorry only in German. One of best of Europe Pallas in Osnabrück,Germany
Sorry only in German. One of best of Europe Pallas in Osnabrück,Germany
Fascinating video, thank you!
Many engineers though would disagree on a technical level with the assertion of the analog expert ("der Analogexperte") at the end of the video that the LP has a "six times higher resolution" than the CD.
Regardless, while I am glad that this company takes care of vinyl pressings on such a dedicated, loving manner, this is not necessarily the rule. There are many mediocre LP pressings as well -- also from the age where analog still ruled.
As for "relatively carelessly recorded digital": there are good and mediocre recordings in both digital and analog. And whlie there are fantastic analog recordings, there are fantastic digital recordings as well. We should not be too quick to generalize.
When you tout yourself as an engineer and present scientific evidence you have gone beyond subjective
I can't just ignore it because it appears to be an intentional attempt to mislead.
Dave, this is an interesting statement. Could you please elaborate and share some examples of what you mean by "conclusions...made that have no basis in reality?" I am trying to understand to what you are referring.
It is much easier to get digital to sound great, you just buy the right gear, plug it in and press play. Analog on the other hand is more of an art. More difficult to get right (labels, pressings, condition, cleaning, proper tonearm/cartridge set up, etc), but much more rewarding when you do.
I don't think it's an intentional attempt to mislead, just ignorance about great vinyl replay.
In the same vein, I do not automatically assume intentional attempt to mislead when vinyl fans spout obvious nonsense about digital, even though I have sensitivities regarding technical misinformation on the subject, and at times have tried to correct it. It's often just plain ignorance -- even from analog fans who are "technical experts".
When the "analog expert" in above video about the vinyl pressing plant claims that the LP has "six times more resolution" ("sechs mal höhere Auflösung") than the CD, this is a technical assertion that is based on misinformation on digital, or misunderstanding of how digital works, as well. Many technical experts knowledgeable about digital would flatly reject his assertion -- on technical grounds. Do I think this "analog expert" is intentionally misleading? No.
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This phenomenon is so rampant, especially on the internet, that it’s no surprise it’s wormed it’s way into our hobby.
If you can’t ignore intentional attempts to mislead, the Internet is going to drive you insane…
I think, similar to my previous statement about folks drawing incorrect conclusions about why they hear what they hear, people draw incorrect conclusions and conflate the format with the mastering.
Fact is, you can make a digital rip of any analog recording, and if it's done well, the differences will be tiny and you really have to A/B test to get a handle on what's different. It's VERY close! But this doesn't work the other way around. I've compared vinyl vs digital on the same mastering as well and the differences are far more obvious.
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What I mean is that people draw incorrect conclusions about why they hear what they hear. Those with little to no technical understanding of audio, combined with not understanding logic are far more likely to come to incorrect conclusions. An audio system is complex and it's very, very easy to draw incorrect conclusions. I think we have all drawn incorrect conclusions, myself included. Audio is akin to meditation in some ways, and there are different kinds of meditation. System analysis is akin to one type of meditation while listening is related to another. The world is full of ways to help you grow as a human being and audio is a good teacher at times.
While I sell cables, part of the process is helping a potential customer achieve an improvement, and this often has other aspects that need to be addressed besides cables. So I've gone through this with hundreds of people over the years. Sometimes it IS as simple as upgrading a cable but often there are other issues like AC power quality, room acoustics, even the hearing sensitivities of the listener come into play at times due to age or hearing damage, or a particular personal preference.
I'm not going to give specific examples because it may upset people, I am kinda surprised you'd ask me to do this. It's not my place to do so without an invitation from the person specifically asking for my opinion, and even then it's not usually done in a public post. If people are looking into making improvements in their system and want my advise on cabling and AC power I can do that in private, and if it involves other aspects of the system I'm happy to go there if it relates.
I can tell you subjective preference has a basis in real, objective truth whether folks want to believe it or not. When people deny this, it's akin to believing in magic. One definition of magic is a technology we don't understand. This is why you get statements from pure subjectivists like this:
The statement that measurements and "technical hype", which needs to be properly defined... maybe we can say it's technical specifications of a piece of gear? In any case, reality defines these things and defines the sound these things produce! The above statement is a massive logical fallacy, it makes no sense whatsoever. It is only our own failure to be able to correlate measurements to what we hear. In some cases like frequency response, this is really obvious and is proof that these kind of subjectivist statements are misguided and incorrect, a result of faulty logic and an incorrect assessment of how an audio system works, and in fact a faulty assessment of how facts and reality define our world.
So, you reject any objective basis here:
"It's actually measurements and technical hype that have no correlation to sound and ie reality!"
Yet you want me to expand on an objective subject here?
"expand on these "psychoacoustically preferred" distortions and artifacts? What are they, what specific frequencies and supporting data?"
[personal criticism post deleted above]
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You can't be serious?? Both are equally important. Subjective opinions are not worth anything without some frame of reference.
I would trust measurements long before a subjective opinion of unknown origin and with no frame of reference. Buy frame of reference I mean a friend who you know well and have shared listening experience's with. I have several friends who's opinion's I have confidence in.
How do you do a objective comparison without a yardstick? Sounds like measurements to me?
Why would anyone put any stock in a You Tube video based on a random person's opinion??
Rob
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Exactly.Why would anyone put any stock in a You Tube video based on a random person's opinion??
Rob
Imo stereo reproduction is an an llusion in the mind of the listener. Hopefully that i
You are basically correct. It does however require that a neophyte possess the requisite knowledge to recognize it for the bs it is.
"Inquiring about my mental status is a Hippa violation.'
You are basically correct. It does however require that a neophyte possess the requisite knowledge to recognize it for the bs it is.
WAF
WAF
WAF
You seem unusually blessed in many regards including this one Peter. Though I suspect the line would be drawn at a Japanese man taking up residence in your garden or nailing bare gypsum onto the walls of your home.
I don't think anyone here kids themselves anywhere approaching the level of widescale devotion given towards golden age analog exists currently in consumer digital. Beyond common sense would dictate that might be a few decades away as it was during the last pandemic.
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