There is a smarter way

[jeff1225]

You would think I would know what I’m talking about having spent time in the mastering studios in the old Sony Classical Music in New York and at Sterling Sound Studios, but if you believe that you know the terminology better that I do, then I will just leave it at that.

Reading your above response to Wil it does seem like you are indeed remastering the music. You are adding artifacts like tape delay, Harmonic filtering, and changing mid bass texture. It’s an interesting approach to making a large scale modern system sound like a DHT/horn system.

thank you for providing the details, that’s what’s usually missing from your posts.

 

[Carlos269]

Reading your above response to Wil it does seem like you are indeed remastering the music. You are adding artifacts like tape delay, Harmonic filtering, and changing mid bass texture. It’s an interesting approach to making a large scale modern system sound like a DHT/horn system.

thank you for providing the details, that’s what’s usually missing from your posts.

For accuracy, no tape delay is used in any of my mastering chains. I do not like tape delay effect. It is all magnetic tape simulation, in one instance with an actual tape head and associated circuitry but not in a tape delay application.

 

[Carlos269]

Here are a few videos from last night’s listening session to illustrate my statements in this thread made above:

DHT/SET/HORN system:

Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush system:

Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush system with the remastering process:

 

[MaxwellsEq]

6) I then send the Mono signal to a magnetic tape head and associated circuitry where it adds tape saturation, soft clipping and the bass bump that we all like

7) Meanwhile the Differential signal goes to a different magnetic tape simulator with different characteristics, which adds more 3 dimensional texture to the bass lines and an airy harmonic richness to the upper treble

Do you find that you can skip these steps with pre-digital recordings? I'm curious as to whether you would end up with doubled up saturation effects.

 

[jeff1225]

Do you find that you can skip these steps with pre-digital recordings? I'm curious as to whether you would end up with doubled up saturation effects.

This won’t work with analog files. I think he’s using this technique to smooth out modern digital (mostly audiophile) recordings.

 

[Carlos269]

Do you find that you can skip these steps with pre-digital recordings? I'm curious as to whether you would end up with doubled up saturation effects.

This won’t work with analog files. I think he’s using this technique to smooth out modern digital (mostly audiophile) recordings.

As I mentioned previously, the goal of this exercise was to alter the inherent sound of my big reference system. The remastering of individual recordings was not the focus, and is simply a byproduct of the process.

So the answer is that once the system has been dialed in to sound the way you want it to sound then the system becomes indifferent to source material, its format or musical genre. You can always tailor it and optimize it to suit your primary source format and musical genre but in the end to me it doesn’t matter what format or musical style is playing, as I want it all to sound great and the only thing that matters to me is the resultant music and it’s presentation. I have a very vast and eclectic taste in music and I want to listen to it all and hear everything, warts and all, from my big reference system. The bullseye is our individual preferences and this process puts that all at the tips of your fingers.

 

[jeff1225]

As I mentioned previously, the goal of this exercise was to alter the inherent sound of my big reference system. The remastering of individual recordings was not the focus, and is simply a byproduct of the process.

So the answer is that once the system has been dialed in to sound the way you want it to sound then the system becomes indifferent to source material, its format or musical genre. You can always tailor it and optimize it to suit your primary source format and musical genre but in the end to me it doesn’t matter what format or musical style is playing, as I want it all to sound great and the only thing that matters to me is the resultant music and it’s presentation. I have a very vast and eclectic taste in music and I want to listen to it all and hear everything, warts and all, from my big reference system. The bullseye is our individual preferences and this process puts that all at the tips of your fingers.

You are essentially using mastering to add second order harmonics to the sound. You should create and market a DHT/SET emulator.

 

[Carlos269]

You are essentially using mastering to add second order harmonics to the sound. You should create and market a DHT/SET emulator.

As any mastering engineer will tell you, they keep the details of their techniques close to their vest as that is how they earn their living. In my case I do this for the fun, enjoyment, and the challenge. I will tell you as I have described above that the process I utilized this time is much more involved than just adding second order harmonics, and the technique is as, and perhaps even more, sophisticated than what is done at most mastering studios. The mastering equipment that I use is very niche and very high-end by studio standards. I only selected seven loops from the over 90 different ones, and their permutations, at my disposal here at home, to give you an idea of the type of power and reach that these high-end mastering tools have when it comes sound sculpting and fine tuning the overall presentation of the sound run through them. There is just about nothing that I can’t do with these mastering tools. Adjustments in the digital domain are more limited because of the 0dB digital limit and available headroom, but because of Jussi Laako’s HQPLAYER 5, I no longer have to worry or concern myself with that, unless I really want to get deep into it with my digital tools.

 

[jeff1225]

As any mastering engineer will tell you, they keep the details of their techniques close to their vest as that is how they earn their living. In my case I do this for the fun, enjoyment, and the challenge. I will tell you as I have described above that the process I utilized this time is much more involved than just adding second order harmonics, and the technique is as, and perhaps even more, sophisticated than what is done at most mastering studios. The mastering equipment that I use is very niche and very high-end by studio standards. I only selected seven loops from the over 90 different ones at my disposal here at home, to give you an idea of the type of power and reach that these high-end mastering tools have when it comes sound sculpting and fine tuning the overall presentation of the sound run through them. There is just about nothing that I can’t do with these mastering tools. Adjustments in the digital domain are more limited because of the 0dB digital limit and available headroom, but because of Jussi Laako’s HQPLAYER 5, I no longer have to worry or concern myself with that, unless I really want to get deep into it with my digital tools.

Well done Carlos. Rick Rubin has nothing on you.

 

[Carlos269]

Well done Carlos. Rick Rubin has nothing on you.

Watch this week’s “60 Minutes” and you will find out how accurate your statement is. I was surprised by what Rick Rubin stated of his technical capabilities.

 

[jeff1225]

Watch this week’s “60 Minutes” and you will find out how accurate your statement is. I was surprised by what Rick Rubin stated of his technical capabilities.

Rick Rubin is a fucking genius. He has changed music. He has more talent in his pinky than most people have in their entire body.

But has he added tape delay effects to the digital playback of his stereo system to emulate a DHT/SET system? I seriously doubt it.

 

[Carlos269]

Well done Carlos. Rick Rubin has nothing on you.

Watch the 60 Minutes segment and you will be surprised by what he has to say. I agree that he’s a genius but not in the way that I had anticipated. He did change the course of the music world single handedly. Love his work with Slayer. May Rick Rubin always Reign In Blood forever! The best speed metal and thrash metal/core album ever!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Solypsa]

I am very familiar with analog mastering technique, and I do feel that adjustability has unfairly been removed from the home replay pallette.

That said it would be nice if there was a simpler and more direct conveyance of the signal chain used for this discussion.. Most mastering engineers know it's not the gear but how you use it that is the secret.

 

[Carlos269]

Most mastering engineers know it's not the gear but how you use it that is the secret.

An absolute true statement! It requires knowledge and intelligence and to be astute. Definitely not for everyone, and most specially not for those that just want to throw money at it and who are looking for a quick buy in solution.

 

[cjfrbw]

How much does selective dynamic range expansion fit into your work? What frequency bands and where IF you do utilize dynamic range expansion.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Carlos, I'm curious how much all of this manipulation costs you in transparency from running the signal through additional circuits, processors, wires, connectors?

 

[Carlos269]

How much does selective dynamic range expansion fit into your work? What frequency bands and where IF you do utilize dynamic range expansion.

In this particular case, I used dynamic filtering with expansion on the mono component, at 148Hz with a relative narrow Q factor and at 12KHz with a broad Q factor.

I adjusted the threshold, attack/release, and ratio of each dynamic filter to get the desired response. These filters are not on a traditional expander but are in a parallel processing arrangement. The output signal of each dynamic filter is a mixture of the wet and dry signals.

The key is to achieve an overall effect that is subtle and not a sound that jumps out at you.

This process is not to be confused with the effect from a classic dynamic range expander unit like a DBX processor from the 70’s.

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos, I'm curious how much all of this manipulation costs you in transparency from running the signal through additional circuits, processors, wires, connectors?

Listen for yourself and make the call yourself. Judge for yourself. My answer is that the remastered system in this case has increased transparency, 3-Dimensionality, and has more fullness than the original system, without the extra processing. I submit the resultant sound on the videos as clear evidence. You can listen to the videos of the system as it originally presented the music and then listen to how the music is presented with the remastering process.

The key thing here is that through each stage of the process, I always have access to the dry signal so I’m only committed to the wet signal to the extent that I want.

In the end, the results tell you all that you need know.

Do you hear any loss in transparency with the remastering resultant presentation? I don’t, I hear the opposite, increased transparency. This is all easily explainable by psychoacoustics but it flies in the face of traditional audiophile logic and conventional thinking.

Listen to the before and after videos and tell me how the transparency of the presentation was impacted. I’m curious to hear if you can discern what I hear.

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos, I'm curious how much all of this manipulation costs you in transparency from running the signal through additional circuits, processors, wires, connectors?

I hear the opposite, increased transparency. This is all easily explainable by psychoacoustics…….

Ron, I won’t leave you wondering how this can be. Based on the principles of psychoacoustics, a perceived cut in the 4KHz-6KHz range is perceived as an increase in transparency. The dynamic filter boost around 12KHz is increasing the sparkle & airy character of the sound while at the same time increasing the perceived transparency of the presentation due to the perceived relative cut in the 4 to 6KHz range. Does this explanation make sense to you?

 

[mtemur]

I watched the videos and I liked the first one (DHT/SET/HORN). It sounds more intimate, open, natural and totally different than other two to my ears.