thinking to buy Luxman M900u mono , what other similar amps should i look? for Focal Maestro

[sbnx]

Sbo6 has an excellent point. A gigawatt amp wont help if you are sitting in a bass null.. try moving the listening position forward and back a foot or two and see if you get more bass. From 60 to 120Hz is critical if you want that thump from kick drum etc.

 

[moby2004]

i don't have Preamp
i plug my PC to Vitus RD-100 DAC Preamp
and listen to music using Tidal.

the Vitus amp on the way to the service center , need to replace the board.

to be honest i don't feel any difference between the Vitus and the Pass X350.5
the sound is not dynamic , the low end is "weak"
the focus is more on the twitter
the Focal making very "realistic" sound , but i'm missing strong mid and low
more "weight".
i don't if that's how the speakers are or if it's the electronics.

and i general since i didn't compare with other amp
i would like to try and see what i like the most

i can think on those , but i'm not sure which ones can match:
d'agostino momentum or progression
simaudio 860a v2
soulution 511 or 711
Luxman m900u
Constellation Centaur II or Inspiration

reviews for example:

"the Momentum is capable of
delivering 300 watts of power into 8 ohms, 600 watts
into 4 ohms, and 1200 watts into 2 ohms. High power,
however, does not mean the loss of even the subtlest
detail. The Momentum has exceptional deep bass and
is as musically realistic in the midrange as the recording
permits, with an open and upper midrange to match,
and an extended treble without any edge. Soundstage
quality will be as excellent in size, depth, and width"

Constellation:

"Very high resolution and voluptuous tone color generally don’t
go together in hi-fi gear, and when they do—as in Class A triode
tube circuits or Class A solid-state ones—they do so at a price in
neutrality. Such amps and preamps seem to have what Raidho’s
brilliant chief engineer Michael Børresen wittily calls a “bottomup”
kind of sound. That is, their sonic “center of gravity”
seems to lie in the upper bass and lower midrange. Though the
250Wpc Constellation Performance Series Centaur stereo amp
would probably qualify as a “bottom-up” amp, in that it has a
slightly darkish overall balance (though it is not the fullest s-s
amp in the bottom-most octaves JV has heard), it doesn’t trade
off as much upper-midrange and treble-range air and bloom
as typical Class A amps do. It has gorgeous color and texture
on top, coupled with an uncanny ability to resolve very fine
details without etching or “spotlighting” them. Given the right
ancillaries and sources, the Centaurs are among the loveliest,
highest-resolution, most lifelike solid-state amps JV has yet
heard"

Assuming the lack of bass is not coming from speakers positioning indeed, if you are looking for amps with incredible dynamics and power then Soulution 711 is a very good choice and it s not sounding harsh . Luxman is gd as well and another brand which could give you what you are looking for : the big monoblocs from Accuphase.( Focal +Accuphase is usually a good match)
Alex

 

[Fidelity88]

IMHO even the D’Agostino Momentum S250 will easily outperform the pair of Luxman M900U amps, it is simply more musical with more transparency while providing the ultimate controlled of the speakers (truly the best of both worlds tube combined with solid state design). The only other amplifier I found better is CH Precision M1.1...no Boulder or Soulution as both may sound dry and cold especially partnering with Focal!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Another point.
I read in the stereophile review that this speaker has jumpers at the back
3 sets of jumpers have you played with them ?
May be your jumpersetting is all wrong
It most likely also Works with resistors
First put everything to 0. Neutral .
Then you could try - 1 db for the mid and - 2 db for the tweeter.
Meaning you reduce the tw and mid output a bit giving relatively more bass output.
A shift in balance ., to the one you prefer

 

[pelo911]

Basically, you are looking for an amp that would be stable and doubling down into a 2 ohm load. Any traditional solid state amplifier that can do this is going to need large heat sinks.

Any Gryphon amplifier -- Anileon EVO, Colosseum or Mephisto. These have an iron grip in the bass and are not intimidated by any speaker.
The Lam M1.2 would work.
The big boulder amps
The Mola-Mola Kaluga class D should also work. Class D amps work differently. They can support very low impedance without needing a huge heatsink.
A pair of Luxman M800u's would also be good. They show up on the used market sometimes
The M900u says it will go to a 1 ohm load. Although I don't know how hard you could really push it.
On the tube side -- Convergent Audio Technology -- CAT JL5 or JL7

All of these would have a different sound when coupled to the speaker load. It is unfortunate, but there really is no way to know until you hook it up and listen. If you read the reviews of these amps they can give you a general feel for the type of presentation each has to offer -- dry, analytical, warm etc.

i prefer SS and not hybrid or tube
because my two boys play around , i wish i had dedicate room.

Gryphon making amazing amps
what are their sound "signature"? warm? speed and dynamic? etc.

other then Gryphon , you can think about more amps i should check?

 

[pelo911]

Another point.
I read in the stereophile review that this speaker has jumpers at the back
3 sets of jumpers have you played with them ?
May be your jumpersetting is all wrong
It most likely also Works with resistors
First put everything to 0. Neutral .
Then you could try - 1 db for the mid and - 2 db for the tweeter.
Meaning you reduce the tw and mid output a bit giving relatively more bass output.
A shift in balance ., to the one you prefer

yes i know
i play with it
and set the bass and the mid on the + (to add more i think)

 

[pelo911]

Basically, you are looking for an amp that would be stable and doubling down into a 2 ohm load. Any traditional solid state amplifier that can do this is going to need large heat sinks.

Any Gryphon amplifier -- Anileon EVO, Colosseum or Mephisto. These have an iron grip in the bass and are not intimidated by any speaker.
The Lam M1.2 would work.
The big boulder amps
The Mola-Mola Kaluga class D should also work. Class D amps work differently. They can support very low impedance without needing a huge heatsink.
A pair of Luxman M800u's would also be good. They show up on the used market sometimes
The M900u says it will go to a 1 ohm load. Although I don't know how hard you could really push it.
On the tube side -- Convergent Audio Technology -- CAT JL5 or JL7

All of these would have a different sound when coupled to the speaker load. It is unfortunate, but there really is no way to know until you hook it up and listen. If you read the reviews of these amps they can give you a general feel for the type of presentation each has to offer -- dry, analytical, warm etc.

you reminding me now
that the place i purchased them from (Projekt Akustik) used Gryphon , Colosseum i think.

 

[chuck]

I visited the Boulder factory yesterday. Boulder uses Focal Grande Utopia speakers in their listening room and the sound was not at all dry or cold during the time I was there, sound was pretty amazing.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I visited the Boulder factory yesterday. Boulder uses Focal Grande Utopia speakers in their listening room and the sound was not at all dry or cold during the time I was there, sound was pretty amazing.

Yes I knew that , I saw pics on the net where they used the big focals , the room looked very sparsely dampned / lively ??
Which amps did you hear ?

 

[pelo911]

Yes I knew that , I saw pics on the net where they used the big focals , the room looked very sparsely dampned / lively ??
Which amps did you hear ?

the Stella and Grande , Focal use Electromagnet bass driver
much easier to drive , i think no need for high power like the Maestro
right?

what do you think about Gryphon Diablo 300?
i like the idea of "one box" system with DAC

 

[andromedaaudio]

I have to read the specs first , I cannot give an answer now .
I never heard the diablo

 

[GSOphile]

I have a Diablo 300 that I use with Magico S3 MkIIs. Love it. Very dynamic with strong bass/speaker control characteristic of Gryphon. Rich sound. I do not have the DAC option (believing that this technology is moving much faster than amplification technology), but I hear it's pretty good.

 

[andromedaaudio]

the Stella and Grande , Focal use Electromagnet bass driver
much easier to drive , i think no need for high power like the Maestro
right?

what do you think about Gryphon Diablo 300?
i like the idea of "one box" system with DAC

But you have already great amps I think , probably even better then the diablo ( and they should be at that price ).
You first have to find out what the problem is , if you dont know the problem it gets hard , endless swapping buying / selling aint gonna solve it .
Regarding your situation id have to hear it first , to,make any usefull advise , what does your dealer say?

 

[pelo911]

But you have already great amps I think , probably even better then the diablo ( and they should be at that price ).
You first have to find out what the problem is , if you dont know the problem it gets hard , endless swapping buying / selling aint gonna solve it .
Regarding your situation id have to hear it first , to,make any usefull advise , what does your dealer say?

i will take photos of the room later today
maybe you will see some issues there

 

[pelo911]

 

[pelo911]

i want to understand a little about the technical info

for example Luxman M900u:
power transformer 1,250 VA
20,000?Fx4
damping factor 710

those numbers telling about the ability to handle the load?
some amps not showing some of those info.
how is this amp compare to others?

thanks

 

[sbnx]

Pelo,

Specs can tell you a little about the amplifier but don't really tell the whole story. In general and amplifier with a lower output impendence has a higher damping factor would indicate the amp has a higher ability to control the woofer. But there are other factors like the amount of feedback the design uses or how big the power supply is. Let met tell you the story of 3 amplifiers.

I had the Luxman B-1000f's for a week long demo in my system. They have an output impedance of 0.125 ohms. Each of these monoblocks would be almost twice the size of the M900u. The bass was good and strong. But I would classify the bass as "round" -- not super well defined. Warm. Some people might prefer this.

The AudioNet Max amp which I currently own has an output impedance of 0.045 ohms. Each Max amp is maybe half the size of a B-1000. And yet It has very authoritative and articulate bass. The woofers are strongly under the control of the amplifier. I can feel the kick drum etc.

The Gryphon Colosseum spent a week in my house recently. This is a stereo amp with an output impedance around 0.01 ohms. This amplifier has rock solid bass. It is hard to really describe the essence of the bass in this amplifier. I very much enjoyed the sound of this amplifier overall but the bass control is off the charts.

The M900u specifies the damping factor as "710" which would give an output impedance of 0.011 into 8 ohm. I have heard the M900u on several occasions and It has nowhere near the bass authority of the Colosseum. You might think that if you bridge them and go with mono amps then that would be better. Well, maybe. There are two ways an amplifier can be bridged to mono. The way the M900u does this it is going to increase the power, increase the noise/distortion and double the output impedance. You may get more bass impact if you plug the two monoblocks into two separate outlets that are on dedicated circuits. But you really won't know how this is going to sound until you hook them up to your speakers.

I am not knocking the M900u. It is a great sounding amp and it is beautiful to look at. I love the meters and the clean lines of the case. And I love the midrange. All of this to say that you can't judge a book by its cover and you can't judge the way an amplifier is going to sound by its specs. They just provide a general guideline. There are lots of ways a company can manipulate the specs. For example, the output impedance is function of frequency. So the company could specify the lowest value they get from 20-20kHz.

All of this is just one person's opinion (except the data part) so take it with a grain of salt.

All the best,
Todd

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think you re room is to big for those speakers they cannot energize it properly ..

I think either a smaller room or you need bigger speakers.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I definetively think its the room here you also have those cavities to other rooms without doors open staircase etc.
Not an easy space.
To get a topsound you need to get a custom designed listening room
Not a gearchange
And if thats not possible i would drag in bigger speakers possibly the big focals or wilson X2 EA MM3 .MM7
My own designs off course
But it still would be tricky.

Ps i m not such a focal fan personally, neither have i heard EA just going from others here and the visual impression membrane surface etc

 

[pelo911]

Pelo,

Specs can tell you a little about the amplifier but don't really tell the whole story. In general and amplifier with a lower output impendence has a higher damping factor would indicate the amp has a higher ability to control the woofer. But there are other factors like the amount of feedback the design uses or how big the power supply is. Let met tell you the story of 3 amplifiers.

I had the Luxman B-1000f's for a week long demo in my system. They have an output impedance of 0.125 ohms. Each of these monoblocks would be almost twice the size of the M900u. The bass was good and strong. But I would classify the bass as "round" -- not super well defined. Warm. Some people might prefer this.

The AudioNet Max amp which I currently own has an output impedance of 0.045 ohms. Each Max amp is maybe half the size of a B-1000. And yet It has very authoritative and articulate bass. The woofers are strongly under the control of the amplifier. I can feel the kick drum etc.

The Gryphon Colosseum spent a week in my house recently. This is a stereo amp with an output impedance around 0.01 ohms. This amplifier has rock solid bass. It is hard to really describe the essence of the bass in this amplifier. I very much enjoyed the sound of this amplifier overall but the bass control is off the charts.

The M900u specifies the damping factor as "710" which would give an output impedance of 0.011 into 8 ohm. I have heard the M900u on several occasions and It has nowhere near the bass authority of the Colosseum. You might think that if you bridge them and go with mono amps then that would be better. Well, maybe. There are two ways an amplifier can be bridged to mono. The way the M900u does this it is going to increase the power, increase the noise/distortion and double the output impedance. You may get more bass impact if you plug the two monoblocks into two separate outlets that are on dedicated circuits. But you really won't know how this is going to sound until you hook them up to your speakers.

I am not knocking the M900u. It is a great sounding amp and it is beautiful to look at. I love the meters and the clean lines of the case. And I love the midrange. All of this to say that you can't judge a book by its cover and you can't judge the way an amplifier is going to sound by its specs. They just provide a general guideline. There are lots of ways a company can manipulate the specs. For example, the output impedance is function of frequency. So the company could specify the lowest value they get from 20-20kHz.

All of this is just one person's opinion (except the data part) so take it with a grain of salt.

All the best,
Todd

thanks a lot!
very informative

i plug the Vitus SM-101 mono amps , very heavy amplifier (i'm don't know the technical info of those amp like dumping power supply etc but i can imaging they provide a lot of power)
to one outlet together , regular one not dedicate
no wonder i ruin one of the amps motherboard.

"All of this to say that you can't judge a book by its cover and you can't judge the way an amplifier is going to sound by its specs. They just provide a general guideline"
exactly what i'm trying to find out , what amps have the ability to match those speakers load issues.
and good enough amp that can be good for future speakers upgrade like Magico / Rockport or more.