Thoughts on Paypal as a "seller"
- Thread starter thedudeabides
- Start date
Yes but there is one problem. Escrow agents involved with real estate transfers for example, have a well defined set of objective standards for issue resolution. You can't take possession of a house, and reside in that house, until all issues are resolved. However, PP's process is more subjective and appears to have a buyer's resolution bias. Read Post No. 9 for one example. I'd love to hear from any seller that used PP, was in a subsequent dispute with the buyer, and the resolution was fair and equitable to both parties. Unfortunately, I don't have a viable solution that protects both parties equally.
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888.221.1161. Good news is I spoke with two agents and both were genuinely concerned about resolving the issue.
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Exactly my experience and my reaction to Paypal. I waited 6-7 weeks to get my money from Paypal, and that's when the buyer contacted Paypal to confirm he was 100% happy with his purchase. Sellers beware!
Thanks to thedudeabides I called the number he listed above and actually got a live PayPal agent after fighting through a bunch of automated messages. He was very helpful and explained why my money was on hold and would remain on hold for another 2 weeks unless the buyer went into his PayPal account and released the money to me by signing off on receipt of product. This even though I had entered Fed Ex tracking information that showed the product had been delivered and signed for by the buyer. The agent then offered to send an email to the buyer explaining what he needed to do to get his payment immediately released to me and the buyer did it. I’m grateful as they would have continued holding my money.
I gave you instructions last week contact buyer to mark package received in his PayPal account. Did you contact the buyer?
I had to do for several dealers so familiar with the drill.
No problem Frank and I'm glad it worked out. I must admit Paypal's telephone customer service is quite good.
Paypal is actually great to deal with vs credit card companies if the buyer files a chargeback.
One time a couple years ago a buyer filed a fraudulent chargeback claim and paypal helped me fight it, but despite providing evidence of clear fraud the CC company would not reverse the chargeback. If there is a dispute they will almost ALWAYS favor the buyer, in fact far more often vs Paypal, and they figure the seller should simply file a lawsuit to settle the dispute.
So there is in fact an epidemic of chargeback fraud, nearly every business has to deal with losses from fraudulent claims and unless the buyer has a history of complaints law enforcement doesn't care and won't do anything.
In contrast Paypal actually does try to settle things according to the info they have.
I do agree the issues new sellers have to deal with is a bit much though.
One time a couple years ago a buyer filed a fraudulent chargeback claim and paypal helped me fight it, but despite providing evidence of clear fraud the CC company would not reverse the chargeback. If there is a dispute they will almost ALWAYS favor the buyer, in fact far more often vs Paypal, and they figure the seller should simply file a lawsuit to settle the dispute.
So there is in fact an epidemic of chargeback fraud, nearly every business has to deal with losses from fraudulent claims and unless the buyer has a history of complaints law enforcement doesn't care and won't do anything.
In contrast Paypal actually does try to settle things according to the info they have.
I do agree the issues new sellers have to deal with is a bit much though.
Hi Dave, one incident is enough for me. Why would any sane person come back for "seconds"? I will simply require Cashiers Check or wire transfer if I sell anything on Audiogon in the future.
Unfortunately, there are no great alternatives. Paypal does what it does to prevent fraud, it's not like they want to do this, they know it hurts their business. But they have to...
I would be much more hesitant to buy from someone who will not take paypal, if I were to pay you via check or wire and you didn't send me the goods my only recourse would be civil court. Law enforcement likely won't do anything about it unless it's for a large $ amount or you had multiple complaints. An escrow service may be an alternative, but they have fees and rules as well.
Your credit card will reverse the transaction simply by calling them and complaining. Then it's up to the seller to prove their side, but even when this is done the CC company will side with the buyer a vast majority of the time.
In my case the fraudulent claim was that I had subscription service that wasn't canceled upon request. As you may guess, I don't offer a subscription service at all and my terms are on my website. Despite this very obvious fraud, the CC company did not pay me.
Look, you just can't win sometimes even if you're right, I wish it could be different but unfortunately nobody has come up with a better alternative and offered it.
I'm with you Gordon.
I had used PayPal for years. Last year I sold a piece of electronics to someone in California. He paid via PayPal that I had never had a problem with previously.
PayPal immediately froze my account saying the $8,000 transaction was larger than any I had recently had. They told me there would be a 30 day freeze on the funds.
I contacted the buyer and asked him to contact PayPal to approve the payment to me. Somehow he paid for the CD/DAC a second time. I refunded the funds on my account and PayPal then froze my account.
I spoke with a number of PayPal employees and they said they were sorry but there was nothing they could do. Once the product was delivered there would be a 14-30 day hold on releasing the funds.
In the end it was 21 days after the buyer received the CD/DAC the funds were released. I immediately canceled my account and will never have another.
30 days after the 21 day wait the buyer contacted my and said the machine was making a noise. Really, 51 days after you received the player you have an issue with a noise.
The people at Audiogon were as helpful as they could be. None of this was their fault.
I had used PayPal for years. Last year I sold a piece of electronics to someone in California. He paid via PayPal that I had never had a problem with previously.
PayPal immediately froze my account saying the $8,000 transaction was larger than any I had recently had. They told me there would be a 30 day freeze on the funds.
I contacted the buyer and asked him to contact PayPal to approve the payment to me. Somehow he paid for the CD/DAC a second time. I refunded the funds on my account and PayPal then froze my account.
I spoke with a number of PayPal employees and they said they were sorry but there was nothing they could do. Once the product was delivered there would be a 14-30 day hold on releasing the funds.
In the end it was 21 days after the buyer received the CD/DAC the funds were released. I immediately canceled my account and will never have another.
30 days after the 21 day wait the buyer contacted my and said the machine was making a noise. Really, 51 days after you received the player you have an issue with a noise.
The people at Audiogon were as helpful as they could be. None of this was their fault.
Ok there is a fundamental difference between negligence and bias to the credit card holder. The credit card holder committed fraud
They obviously successfully deceived the credit card company. Such acts should be reported to your states attorney general office.
The cc card was clearly negligentl in handling the claim. I would not let them off the hook.
If you agree to take a credit card then you agree to their terms. There is nothing that can be done about it besides a criminal complaint, which will almost certainly be ignored by law enforcement or a civil lawsuit.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
I practiced criminal defense law for over 30 years. Despite my considerable effort to convince them otherwise, rarely was a crime too pettty to be prosecuted. Especially theft from a business.
I practiced criminal defense law for over 30 years. Despite my considerable effort to convince them otherwise, rarely was a crime too pettty to be prosecuted. Especially theft from a business.
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